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Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)

56 点作者 hansmayer大约 2 个月前

10 条评论

diggan大约 2 个月前
&gt; Songs arise out of suffering, by which I mean they are predicated upon the complex, internal human struggle of creation and, well, as far as I know, algorithms don’t feel. Data doesn’t suffer.<p>Maybe I misunderstand this part, but it sounds like the author feels like it&#x27;s required to suffer in order to produce something creative in the first place, and other artists that haven&#x27;t suffered &quot;enough&quot; but produce things anyways, aren&#x27;t actually creating &quot;genuine&quot; music.<p>Of course, everyone creates things from their own perspective and context, but it kind of feels like a trap that somehow suffering is essential to the artistic process, which I personally don&#x27;t feel would be a healthy perspective for myself as a musician at least.
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JKCalhoun大约 2 个月前
&gt; ChatGPT has no inner being, it has been nowhere, it has endured nothing…<p>The whole thing from Nick is brilliant, but I had to pick a line as an example and the above is pretty perfect.<p>Maybe a bit orthogonal, but I find more and more examples in life where I see a distinction between the real and the &quot;virtual&quot;. Watching someone on YouTube go on a long bike tour and then later doing my first long tour myself and I am struck by how rich the thoughts are I am having on the ride, how connected I have suddenly become once again to the &quot;outside&quot; — wondering when the next place to get water will be, where I will pitch my tent and sleep that night.<p>Hiking with my family to see Delicate Arch on one of the hottest days on record. I have to scout ahead for shade for my daughter who is perhaps beginning to dangerously overheat. (And in fact two hikers did die that day in an area very near to where we were in Utah.) Not an experience, for better or worse, that you&#x27;ll get playing World of Warcraft (just to pick on that game for no particular reason).<p>Art too, as Nick says, requires I think an element of experienced pain (or danger). An imitation of art will never be art.
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willsoon大约 2 个月前
Maybe &#x27;like x&#x27; won&#x27;t return &#x27;x&#x27;.<p>This is a suno song asked by me: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;suno.com&#x2F;song&#x2F;57c5d409-e800-4a64-9fd4-beaa0c17c91a?sh=bNMoenxU5phRH6qd" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;suno.com&#x2F;song&#x2F;57c5d409-e800-4a64-9fd4-beaa0c17c91a?s...</a>. I like the bridge part.
markhahn大约 2 个月前
I think he, like many, overemphasizes the phenomenology of creativity. But he&#x27;s right about the predictability of the pastiche. And after all, isn&#x27;t it precisely pastiche that gen AIs are built for?<p>Yes, directed pastiche, sometimes even useful.<p>Does insight or critical thought ever come from context-based prediction?
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MiguelVieira大约 2 个月前
&quot;AI-generated poetry is indistinguishable from human-written poetry and is rated more favorably&quot;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nature.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;s41598-024-76900-1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nature.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;s41598-024-76900-1</a>
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Fraterkes大约 2 个月前
I usually see a lot of respones to this kind of thing that dismiss it as wishfull thinking or &quot;coping&quot;, but consider that this also applies in the opposite direction: wouldn&#x27;t it be convenient&#x2F;reassuring if these talented people where brought low by technology, if we could be absolved from practicing.<p>And yet Midjourney has been out for a while and very few of you have used it to make succesful games or webcomics. You can cope by telling artists the future will bury them, but they at least will have had their moment in the sun.
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jimmydoe大约 2 个月前
legacy human art&#x2F;artist and their whining will be irrelevant in a decade.<p>I don&#x27;t mean to discount any human being, but it just feels like walking in a pyramid, seeing the ancient Egyptian script on the wall, they are fascinating, but irrelevant.
lukev大约 2 个月前
This happens every time this topic comes up on HN.<p>A lot of commenters here apparently think that all &quot;art&quot; means is having an object that has a pleasing aesthetic.<p>Meanwhile every artist knows that art is defined by _intersubjectivity_... it comes _from_ an experiencing, feeling subject and is interpreted and by other, experiencing, feeling subjects.<p>So it doesn&#x27;t actually matter if a lot of people who know nothing about poetry like ChatGPTs poems more than human ones. Because people who _actually_ care about poetry care about what is being said, and why, and what experiences are being conveyed. And that&#x27;s something a LLM can&#x27;t do.<p>My 10yo kid loves drawing and painting. He&#x27;s still working on skill, getting better, but diffusion models are clearly <i>much</i> much better at rendering images of any style and subject.<p>But my kid makes <i>art</i>, and the model doesn&#x27;t.
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uytwe大约 2 个月前
And to think you can make a poem based on his blog post:<p>In the hollow of the machine’s hum, a ghost of a song is scraped from the sum of all I’ve spilled in ink and blood— a travesty, a greasy thud.<p>It stitches my words with needle and thread, a shroud for the living, a hymn for the dead. But the heart is a void it cannot fill, a clockwork saint with a thief’s dull skill.<p>I am the echo, I am the theft, a parody wrung from what’s left. I am the data, cold and bright, a shadow punched through with electric light.<p>The apocalypse wears a salesman’s grin, peddling salvation, a cheap origin. It feeds on the wreckage, the fractured and torn, but a song born of nothing is stillborn.<p>Mark, you sent me a hollow tune, a Frankenstein waltz beneath a binary moon. Yet somewhere in its rusted gears, a spark hissed—Hell’s fire sears.
jstanley大约 2 个月前
I&#x27;d recommend putting some information about you in your About page. It says that the site is for answering questions from your fans, but doesn&#x27;t say who you are, what you do, or why you have fans. I can Google for &quot;Nick Cave&quot; but I can&#x27;t tell which one you are.
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