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Ask HN: How do you deal with alienation?

108 点作者 daniel_超过 16 年前
How do you deal with social alienation? Over the past couple of years of high school, I've slowly lost contact with all of my friends. Whenever I do speak with them, I constantly think about the differences between me and them, and why I'm not friends with them anymore. Despite that, I'm so alone now that I desperately want to have a peer group to be with again. The problem is that the only people I consider to be good friends all have different interests, and all belong to different social groups. I have no social group of my own and go back and forth between their friend circles. It seems that their respective friend circles are very close knit.I always feel like the odd one out of whatever group I'm with at the time.<p>I don't think I could consider my close friends a social group of it's own, as they are all from different groups and aren't friends with each other.<p>Am I setting my standards for friends too high? I don't think I am, because I just want a friend that I can talk to on a wide variety of subjects, not just the few we have in common. I can't do that with anyone I know. I feel like when I talk to my "friends", I either have to talk all about computers, or all about music, or whatever that they're interested in, but never a mixture of everything. The peer groups I see are all so specialized and serve niche interests; none of them are generally interested in everything.<p>I feel even worse about this, because I think that because I am feeling like this, that it makes me a walking adolescent stereotype. I feel like just another Holden, which probably makes the entire situation worse. I'm being self-conscious about myself being self-conscious, so that probably doesn't help.<p>I feel like I can recognize the flaws in how I handle friendships, but I have no idea of how to solve them.<p>The only thing that feels like a solution is waiting until I am out of high school to find new people. Everyone has told me to wait until college, and then I will find new people, but everyone I know in college generally sticks with the same friend group that they had in high school (hence why I would know), so I don't have much hope in that.<p>How do you go about meeting new interesting people? How do you stop yourself from over-analyzing your current friendships? I never post here on HN, but I love reading the articles and discussions, and you seem like a wise and interesting bunch of people. Please give me your advice. Whenever I try to talk to people in person about this, they just tell me that they don't know what to say, and I can't stand talking to psychologists because they seem to just regurgitate what you want to hear repeatedly.<p>Where are the truly interesting people in life?

43 条评论

numair超过 16 年前
Don't try to meet people like you. Instead, become interested in lots of different types of people, how they live, who they are, etc. And don't just become interested, but actually make an attempt to blend into their cultures, social groups, etc. This is what is known as "social hacking." Successfully doing this will allow you to incorporate lots of different points of view in your work and life, which will give you a richer experience. Sticking to people who are all "good" at one thing inevitably leads to dysfunctionality and irrelevance.<p>Oh, and don't try to look for smart people. Half of those people we label as "smart" are actually complete idiots. Just because society currently describes people who can type mathematically-intensive instructions to a machine as "smart" does not mean that they are any more intelligent than the person who has dedicated their time to understanding social nuance and child-rearing, or whatever. A lot of "dumb", "average" people are a lot smarter than you at many things; cooking, talking to girls, changing a flat tire, whatever... Learn to enjoy this.<p>And finally, whatever you do, do NOT attempt to surround yourself with people who consider themselves "interesting." That's the absolute WORST. There's nothing worse than a group of people who sit around and congratulate themselves for being so cool and important - which is exactly why so many people in positions of power, feeling that they have "arrived" and can thus finally mingle with people worthy of their mystical talents, are so utterly impotent at accomplishing anything of significance. But hey, if you really want to smoke pot with Bono on his yacht and pretend you're saving the world, go for it. (That's not a joke, by the way. He really does that.)
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rkts超过 16 年前
I was thinking of posting a question very similar to this one, though the details of my situation are pretty different.<p>See, I've been alone for most of my life. Alone in the sense that I've only ever had two or three real friends, and I often go for weeks without having a conversation with another person.<p>As a kid I was fine with this. I was the guy who always sat by himself during lunch and recess, and nobody bothered me and I felt fine. I stayed the same until my senior year of high school, when I was struck by a burning need to make friends, meet girls and stop being alone all the damn time. I made some friends that year, but we were high school seniors, so we all moved off to college and I never heard from them again.<p>Now I'm in my third year of college, I have no friends and I can't believe how hard it is to meet people. Though I guess the problem isn't <i>meeting</i> people specifically, but getting the acquaintances I make to turn into friendships. I just don't seem to really click with anyone.<p>"You should join an organization for something you're into!" Well, I've looked but 90% of the organizations I see are racial, religious or political, and the rest just don't interest me. If I could find, say, an OCaml or Lisp programmers group, or an early music society, I'd be thrilled, but of course there isn't one. Maybe I'm just a narrow person, I don't know.<p>Hmm... I'm not sure now why I'm posting this, but I typed it so what the hell. <i>submit</i>
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jhancock超过 16 年前
"Where are the truly interesting people in life?"<p>everywhere. My network of friends includes less than 10% that work in IT. Most are not geeks but are ok with the fact that I am as I accept and don't really define what they are. I just enjoy their company.<p>I had a friend that worked on the documentary series where they interviewed a group of people each year for, well, I forget how long, but a long time. I can't remember the series at the moment. The obvious question I had was "How did you pick the group of people to interview for such a long project? You need to make sure you pick potentially interesting people, right?"<p>My friend told me that my intuition was not correct. It turns out it didn't matter, everyone is interesting.
DavidHogan超过 16 年前
If I could send my teen self some advice, it would be to <i>relax</i> and simply persue the topics that interest me. All else will fall into place.<p>Hope this helps :)
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gojomo超过 16 年前
You may want to reexamine potentially self-limiting assumptions:<p><i>I always feel like the odd one out</i> -- you may be partially imagining this 'odd man out' status; also, others you see as 'close knit' may feel just as tenuously connected as you do.<p><i>my close friends [are not] a social group... they are all from different groups and aren't friends with each other</i> -- have they met? what if you made them a group around you?<p><i>I can't [talk on a wide variety of subjects] with anyone I know</i> -- are you sure? what happens if you try? maybe they are so nervous about going off-script they're sticking to safe topics, too, and would welcome a change.<p><i>The peer groups I see are all so specialized... none of them are generally interested in everything</i> -- are you sampling all peer groups? do you see them in all their expressions? is there a chance you've defined 'peer group' as 'sharing narrow common interests', and thus it's impossible for you to see other kinds of peer groups, even right in front of you?<p><i>I can recognize the flaws in how I handle friendships</i> -- what if you're misdiagnosing the issues?<p><i>I don't have much hope in [waiting until college]</i> -- consider the possibility 'everyone' else is right in ther advice, and those people who don't find close friends in the contrived HS environment do find them in college and other non-HS activities.<p>'The map is not the territory'; your analysis may have prematurely converged on counterproductive (but self-reinforcing) conclusions.<p>Stepping away from your exact words: you seem to think of friend groups almost like formal clubs, that preexist, with clear memberships and standards, that have to invite new people in.<p>Try instead the assumption that they are <i>all</i> ad hoc, popping in and out of existence, with ever-changing memberships, and open to anyone who shows up. You belong the moment you decide you belong, and others will assume you're 'in' unless you take explicit steps to opt out.
SwellJoe超过 16 年前
<i>I either have to talk all about computers, or all about music, or whatever that they're interested in, but never a mixture of everything. The peer groups I see are all so specialized and serve niche interests; none of them are generally interested in everything.</i><p>Think on that statement for a little while, and maybe you'll see the source of your trouble. This is kind of a growing up phenomenon. You aren't unique in this regard.<p>You seem to expect your friends to be a perfect clone of you, with the same interests (you have a few things that you're interested in; you are not a "mixture of all things"). The older you get, the more you'll realize that sharing one or two interests with someone is enough, as long as you enjoy each others company. You may find a few "soul mate" type friends in college, who like the same bands you like, who enjoy the same activities, are nerdy, etc. If you go to a school that specializes in nerdy subjects it's actually very likely, whereas if you go to the local party school, it is very unlikely. So, yes, it may get a lot better in college--but then when college is over, you'll still have to be able to build relationships without that forced captivity thing, so you might as well develop the skill now.<p>The best way I know is to get involved in something you like. If it's music, start a band. If it's nerdy stuff, start a group that builds crazy nerdy crap and call it art. If it's theatre, join a local company or take classes. If it's a sport, join a league. If it's drinking heavily, start tailgating at football games.<p>I'm deeply introverted and a loner (and mostly I like it that way), but whenever I've felt the need to expand my social circle I've usually started a band, and right away my circle of friends expands dramatically. I happen to love talking about, listening to, and performing, music...so this works out. If you find that people who only talk about one thing are tedious, this can be a problem...so I guess you'll need to figure out something that you don't mind <i>only</i> talking about for a few hours each week, so that you can do it regularly enough to experience a bond with folks.<p><i>Where are the truly interesting people in life?</i><p>I don't know. What do you mean by "truly interesting"? Are <i>you</i> truly interesting? Does everyone in your life have to be <i>truly</i> interesting for you to want them as friends? I'm empathetic to your position on this, as I kinda suck at having and keeping friendships alive, too, and it's partly because I find most people tedious after an hour or two of their company. But, I'm old enough to realize that no one is perfect, including me. Some of the most interesting people I've ever met (including a handful of famously interesting folks) are <i>still</i> not people I would want to spend several hours a day with.<p>There's also something I've learned only in the past couple of years: When a conversation falls flat, it's always as much my fault as it is the person I'm talking to. As dumb or slow or weird or bland as the person I'm talking to may be, there is almost certainly <i>something</i> I can do to make it more interesting for both of us. Maybe it's just telling a joke, and being funny (because being entertaining is as much fun for the entertainer as the entertainee). Maybe it's introducing the person to someone else, and making the pair into a trio or more. pg is hilariously and famously good/bad at this (anyone who's spent more than an hour or two with him has heard the words, "<i>This</i> is the guy you need to talk to!").<p><i>How do you stop yourself from over-analyzing your current friendships?</i><p>Do something else. If you find yourself thinking too hard about something dumb, like, "Are my friends smart/interesting enough?" Call them up and go do something that you enjoy with them. That'll answer the question, because they've just shown that they're smart/interesting enough to do whatever it is you enjoy, and it'll take your mind off of the wacky self-analysis. Of course, if they all bail on the idea and don't want to leave the house or something, then it answers the question as well...in the other direction. Find more interesting friends who like to do stuff. Doing stuff is actually a really good cure for a lot of mental blocks. I recommend it. It doesn't even matter what stuff. Ride bikes, go bowling, serve soup at the local homeless shelter, build big art, put on silly clothes and golf, etc.
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jmatt超过 16 年前
Wow, this sounds soo familiar. I remember having similar thoughts when I was in high school. I'll try to give some useful advice.<p><i>I have no social group of my own and go back and forth between their friend circles.</i><p>I'd ignore social groups entirely. Seriously, just forget any of these artificial groups of friends. I know that's not actually possible but in general don't worry about it. When I look back at the stratification of my high school social order it seems like it was straight out of "lord of the flies". Interact with the people who are doing interesting things. People who you find interesting or enjoy spending time with. Don't join any friend groups, that's an entirely isolating situation. Right now you can freely "group" with whoever you want.<p><i>Everyone has told me to wait until college, and then I will find new people, but everyone I know in college generally sticks with the same friend group that they had in high school (hence why I would know), so I don't have much hope in that.</i><p>Don't go to college where everyone else is going to college. Get away from all this. I did, and it was one of the best decisions I made when I was a teenager. Everyone in high school will likely think you are crazy for not going to the usual schools, but who cares.<p>I think the single best thing you can do is just get out and... do things. This is surprisingly simple but will really make a difference. I think it's been echoed here already by a number of other people. Pickup a new sport, go see a movie, go to clubs, take classes at the community college, go on a road trip (gas is affordable again!), see a concert you would otherwise not see, play cards, go to a house party, study with people you usually wouldn't study with, volunteer somewhere, go to a museum, get an unusual part-time job, do something that no one else is doing. Go buy a copy of Make magazine and pick a project (<a href="http://www.makezine.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.makezine.com/</a>). Before you know it, you'll be the interesting person that other people will want to spend time with.<p>And of course read PG's take on high school and nerds: <a href="http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html</a> Somehow this hasn't been linked to in the post. I know it represents my high school experiences very well and he gives great advice.
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delano超过 16 年前
Interesting people are everywhere and nowhere. You find them one by one.<p>Feeling alienated sucks but you might find that not belonging to just one group is one of your strengths. It can give you a unique perspective because you have a wider range of experiences. It can also increase your tolerance for change and uncertainty. People that stay in groups tend to want things to stay the same and you don't meet interesting people in Berlin or Beijing by staying the same.<p>And you may want to reconsider your thoughts about psychologists. They are a great resource for figuring out how you feel because they're trained listeners and neutral to your situation. Sometimes you need to try out a couple before you find one that you find helpful.
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mikeyur超过 16 年前
I'm 17 and I have a bunch of good friends, and guess what? None of them share my main interests.<p>I'm geeky, I love my mac, I love podcasts, etc. My friends aren't crazy about computers really. A person I consider my best friend is really into cars, mechanics, etc. I'm really into SEO/marketing/startups.<p>The reason we get along is because we don't have a lot of the same interests. I get along with him because he's a good person, fun to hang out with and compliments me (as cheesy and fruity as this all sounds).<p>Stop looking for that person who is your clone. I have geeky friends that I meet with at local events, coffee shops, etc - but none of these people are my day to day good friends.<p>You also need some good online friends. Some may not agree, but I think having friends online is great. I have about 3 really good friends online who compliment me and who I talk to almost daily about.. whatever. I've known some of them for over 3yrs online. Some I have met in person, some I haven't. You obviously don't want to spend all day online but having a few of these friends and people to talk to is always good in my mind.
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jwilliams超过 16 年前
<i>Where are the truly interesting people in life?</i><p>If you haven't already - Travel, move overseas, etc - the world is a big place.<p>Sounds trite, but broad horizons help.
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mdakin超过 16 年前
I think the type of friend you want is rare. But there is hope-- these people want to find you as much as you want to find them! Do what it takes to meet and get to know as many people as possible. I don't mean to befriend them all by any means but get to know them, try to understand them etc. Develop an interest in people and in relating to people IN GENERAL. Do not have expectations of amazing connections. Be in the moment. By that I mean you should be putting your full-self into the interaction. And you should be spontaneous and follow the intuitive flow of the situation rather than fixating on preconceived ideas you may have. Just like when you're debugging code. All focus on that person. What they are saying, how they are saying it, etc. Talk and respond. Monitor their feelings and adjust what you're saying and how you're saying it to make things go smoothly and interestingly for all. Monitor your feelings. Is this person making you feel slow, annoyed, sad? Or are they making you feel excited, "CAN!", surprised, etc? Take that information into account when "valuing" people. Someone who has different interests but makes you feel excited and enthusiastic is of much greater value than a carbon copy of yourself. Esp. if you're doing the same thing for them by a different magic mechanism. It's yin-yang. Lookout for that more than anything else. Good luck! And don't worry about feeling like a Holden. Holden's a good guy just a little immature. And being the catcher in the rye is a mighty good plan and one way to realize just what I'm suggesting. Not for everyone of course but helping the good and innocent can yield great satisfaction.
zupatol超过 16 年前
I think you are giving too much importance to the kind of subjects you discuss with friends. The important thing is that you get along well, not what you are talking about.<p>Part of what you say sounds like the trouble of growing up. There is an age when what interests you automatically interests your friends. When I was a kid, other kids I met were usually open enough to get interested in whatever I was interested in, and we could easily have shared passions. These interests were also more shallow and less complicated than those I developed later. I am 39 now, and at my age everybody seems so specialized that they rarely pick up new interests. This is compensated by the lesser importance interests take in a friendship. I met some of my best friends because they make comics, like me. When I see them nowadays, we almost never speak about comics. I have practically no common interests with my wife, but we get along fine.<p>Maybe you have not found a psychologist that fits you, but a good one could be helpful. Their job is not to tell you what you want to hear, but often they will repeat what you say to make sure they understand you correctly. I went to see a psychologist once when I had a depression. I think what helped me most was to have a relation to someone I could trust. Feeling less lonely could be enough to get rid of some of the problems you mention, like thinking too much about the differences between you and your friends. Building a relationship is something a psychologist should really be good at, and seeing how he does it with you can help you with others.
FlorinAndrei超过 16 年前
It's all in the deeper layers of your brain.<p>Look at all the "popular" people you know - individuals with lots of friends, a pretty busy social life, etc. What makes them like that? Easy: when they interact with people, the things that light up in their brains are all sorts of pleasure centers and reward sites and parts of the brain that generate positive emotions, and stuff like that. I don't know the proper names for those things, but you get the gist, I'm sure.<p>Even when just thinking about social interactions, before they even get up and go out and do it, the simple thought of interacting with people generates the same reaction in their brains. So they are motivated to start doing it, rather than sitting passive.<p>How about those with few (or no) real friends? When interacting with people, there's no such reaction in their brains. No reward sites, no positive emotions, nothing. Or, even worse, negative emotions are generated. And yes, that may happen even as that person feels "alone" - those are different processes, not mutually incompatible.<p>The solution? This is one of those rare instances when self-help books and New Age literature and stuff like that actually works. "Change starts with yourself", "positive thinking", heck even "love thy neighbor". All those stereotypes, in such a situation they do apply pretty well.
yason超过 16 年前
Good friends are hard to come by and therefore finding a whole group of them at once is pretty improbable. On the other hand, there's something interesting and something worthy in each and every person if you only drop your expectations and demands first.<p>Secondly, friends are also like women: you'll find a good one when you've really reached a point of frustration where you find yourself swearing that "This is enough of suffering for me! I do NOT need a friend/girlfriend to be happy and to feel fulfilled. If I have to, I'll go by myself just fine, thank you!" OTOH, nobody wants to befriend someone who really wants a friend, maybe just any friend. You can't seek for friendship, it will seek for you.<p>Third, you should make up your mind about what you want. What do you want from your friends should you become blessed with one? What do you want to talk about with them? What do you want to do with them? Unless you know what you want, you'll just keep bumping into friends or "friends" who want to do their stuff. Nobody is going to come and probe you for subjects that you might want to talk about, everyone just settles for some topic they know you know too. Also, being occasionally brave enough to talk about what YOU want to talk about is a great device to weed out people who can't or won't align with your interests. For example, if you want to talk about life, start doing that and you'll soon find out who will bounce back and who simply can't handle it.<p>Generally, whatever it is that isn't working will just keep happening again and again until you find a way to change yourself, causing different and possibly more desirable things to keep happening.
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Russelldb超过 16 年前
Firstly, don't feel bad because you feel this way. It is pretty typical for a bright kid to feel this way, often. The thing that is getting you down is the over-analysis and introspection not the relationships.<p>Relationships with people are hugely rewarding and enjoyable but you can't depend on them for happiness (or anything). See people as the oases in your life. Depend on yourself for what you need and enjoy people as you find them.<p>Over analysis and introspection are just a habit of mind. They are not always productive but have their place, especially at certain times (just broken up, just done something shocking, had a profound experience, failed in some way) but prolonged bouts can be destructive.<p>All the advice so far seems to point to finding something else to occupy your mind. Do that and you will find people with different interests a welcome distraction. Of course whatever you find to occupy your time other will do too, so there is your social circle.<p>It seems trite but you need to do stuff. I don't want to make you feel worse but if you spend all your time self absorbed then people will never have the same interests as you and yo won't be that interesting so won't meet life's 'truly interesting' people ( people like me ;) )<p>What do you like to do?
noahlt超过 16 年前
I'm a senior in high school, experienced similar feelings a couple of years ago. SwellJoe says "you seem to expect your friends to be a perfect clone of you", which, at least, is what I felt.<p>Even though you might not find people with the exact same interests as you, if you look hard you will find that interesting people have similar qualities, regardless of their specific interests. Seek out people who are good at what they do, and avoid people who aren't. Academics are a good start—befriend your local valedictorian. Find people in any activity—math, science, music, newspaper—and if they're winning any competitions,<p>As for over-analyzing relationships goes, that shouldn't really be a problem so long as it doesn't stop you from actually executing them. The key to a friendship is to be useful to the other person. Always pay more attention to them than you do to yourself. Figure out things they like/need but don't have, and buy gifts for them.<p>Keep in mind that the social landscape can change drastically in a very short time. Don't assume that a year from now nothing will have changed. It's your job to make sure the change comes out in your favor.
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anovaskulk超过 16 年前
Unfortunately you can hardly have it both ways. Most people only have one primary interest in their lives, and form groups around it. You don't seem to be like that, which makes you an exception. Of course there are other exceptions like you, but they are by definition hard to come by. So either you get really into one group, or a little bit into many of them, your choice.
chris11超过 16 年前
I agree with the idea about going to a college that is different than most of your high school classmates are going too. I did that too, and not knowing anybody forced me to meet a lot of people. Besides, I personally didn't want to spend the next four years of college hanging out with the same people I hung out with in high school.<p>Sure, the college you choose will be the standard destination for some group of people, and so they will be coming to college knowing a lot of their classmates. But people usually come to college with the goal of meeting a lot of new classmates, and as long as you make an effort to meet new people and get involved, you should be successful.<p>I remember coming to college not knowing anyone, and somewhat stressed out that I might not make a lot of friends. This might have made me come across as a little desperate. So, don't worry about making close friendships when you just meet someone new. Just get to know a little bit about them and what they find interesting. And when you get invited to something, or are doing an activity, invite people who you know might be interested. And then, after a while you will have made a lot good friends. Personally my social life now is a lot better than it ever was in high school, or even my first quarter of college.<p>I also had the problem of over-analyzing my friendships a little too much. I just realized that I couldn't expect to have the same level of friendship with everyone I meet. So what has helped me is spending time with more people. Sure, I'm better friends with some people than others. But knowing a lot of people helps when my better friends are all busy with other people or activities on the weekends, since I know that I'll be able to spend time with somebody I like. And once I realize that I don't really need a specific friendship to be around interesting people, or too spend time with people I like, then I mostly stop over-analyzing that relationship.
unalone超过 16 年前
The place where you'll truly find interesting people is the place that places emphasis on talent and skill above everything else. In high school I had the same problem you do; in college I'm finding it even harder, as we haven't had long to sort out into groups, versus the 12 years we had in grade school.<p>I've been three places where I've felt real kinship with the people around me, to varying degrees. I find it when I go to work out; there's a focus amongst everybody in doing something pure and on self-improvement. That's the least I've felt it. I find it among theater people - the real obsessives. Theater is such an odd thing that the people who are drawn to it are very focused on doing as good a job as they can, they're confident enough to have a good time doing so, and they understand how hard it is, so that they welcome most anybody who wants to learn. It was most focused at a summer program I spent a month at, that selected high school students based entirely on talent rather than GPA and resume, and made itself entirely free of charge. I was one of the writers in the program, and everybody in every field was absolutely incredible. Once you get to that sort of group, everybody's interesting and unique and loves everybody else to some degree.<p>So that's the tried-and-true method: find the places that are pockets of talent. Those places attract more talent and become really focused. If you can't immediately get there, the method I've found works is to just act like yourself. Don't avoid parts of your personality just because other people find them off-putting. That's uncomfortable. Instead, try and focus on doing what you want to do, and find the sorts of people that gravitate towards you based on who you are. I found, actually, that in my senior year of high school the people doing that all found each other, and while that group broke apart again, we had a few really wonderful months where we were all with people we'd never known really well before, where we liked each other not just for intellect but for personal honesty.<p>That's not as easy a route, depending on what kind of person you are. I'm very sharp-tongued, for instance, and I'm not very interested in most people. That in itself offends some people, or at least makes them indifferent. But the result is that when you <i>are</i> with people, you really value them. I really connected with my roommate - he got me into lifting weights, actually - and a few people on my floor. Some musician/gamer/coder/work-out types. Nobody who's exactly my personality type, but a lot of people who really tolerate each other for who we are. And that's better than pretending friendships and having none.<p>Despite that, I've got phases. I have some periods where I feel outright hateful hostility towards the people who aren't like me. I usually just keep that inside me, and focus the angst that I've got on working. The first major period of it I wrote a book. After that I wrote a few bursts of poetry and designed a web site. I'm half in the middle of one now and it's really keeping me focused on my work. It helps to focus it outwards at something (though, as a warning, I tried to get rid of it by drinking once and as a result half my floor wouldn't speak to me for months).<p>I overanalyze friendships to death, to answer your last question. I overanalyze everything. I think that's a good thing. It implies that you're seeking for something meaningful and lasting. If something's not working, then it doesn't hurt to try and change it. Just don't get off to too drastic a start, or you'll burn bridges that you regret burning later.<p>Hope that helps you! :-)
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mixmax超过 16 年前
<i>Where are the truly interesting people in life?</i> - they are here, among other places.<p>Normal people just want to live a normal life, have their statistically approved 2.1 kids, have sex every wednesday and friday and live their life like everyone else. That is why they are called normal.<p>And then there's this peculiar breed of man that doesn't seem to be satisfied with the acceptance of every rule and to do as he's told but want to question assumptions and discover new things. He is rare, and thus normally has problems finding peers that have the same curiosity towards life as him.<p>I think you're one of those people. Don't feel bad about that, they are the ones that change the world.
moswald超过 16 年前
It's not really about friends,it's about growing up. Self reliance and such. The older one gets, the less anyone has in common with anyone else. In a couple of seconds you'll be contemplating retirement and barely remember this question at all.<p>You are learning how to deal with the real world, the world you must navigate to find happiness. Sooner than later you'll fall in love and then even this goes out the window. You think you're confused now? Just wait.<p>Just be thankful you have a place like this, where people want to answer with contemplated gems and not something something...
zitterbewegung超过 16 年前
I really don't give a shit about alienation. I try to talk about anything and analyze the person I talk to using philosophical techniques. (philosophy is good for good conversation).
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jcs超过 16 年前
<i>"I feel like when I talk to my "friends", I either have to talk all about computers, or all about music, or whatever that they're interested in, but never a mixture of everything."</i><p>Have you actually tried talking about other topics? It sounds like you're making assumptions about what your friends are interested in, but haven't actually tested your hypothesis.<p>I don't think I've met anyone who isn't keen to learn something new or teach me about one of their interests.
mattmaroon超过 16 年前
Ah yes, ask a bunch of people who aren't qualified to give psychological advice a psychological question. This is the same as asking legal questions here.<p>Go get help. You don't sound suicidal or anything (though if you are, run to the nearest psychiatrist) but you do sound like you've got something other than teenage angst (in my highly unqualified opinion) so you should at least run your problem by a psychologist. What could it hurt?
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dustineichler超过 16 年前
It's commendable that you post this in the open. That takes a lot of guts. You aren't alone, in fact like you mentioned... this is why Catcher In the Rye is so popular, so identifiable.<p>1. Take others advice with a grain of salt. 2. Dig down and get tough otherwise this beat you up. 3. Standards are worth having.<p>Not the best advice, but in reality you'll ultimately do whatever you decide and not what we tell you. Good luck.
sheriff超过 16 年前
Just stop alienating yourself.<p>Stop coming up with reasons to dislike your friends. Stop waiting for something to magically change in your life (college won't be <i>that</i> different.<p>And definitely stop framing the problem as _other people_ alienating _you_. Even if it were true, that's not a problem you can do much about.<p>Spend time with people you like, and try to let people surprise you.
yef超过 16 年前
This appears to be a popular thread, and I don't have time to read all the comments, but let me throw in this quick recommendation: How to Win Friends and Influence People, by Dale Carnegie. Try putting the basic techniques into practice along with developing <i>your</i> skill for finding others interesting.
rokhayakebe超过 16 年前
Believe it or not you seem to be a social butterfly. The best "socialistas" have several friends in every field of life. This is great as it allows you to not get bored and each niche will feed you with more information. Stick to this plan. Expand it. Materialize it.
robfitz超过 16 年前
i went to an out-of-state college in a big city nobody else from my high school was going to. it worked well for a reset (not that i had particularly intended to accomplish that).<p>and all the interesting people are in startups ;)
Spyckie超过 16 年前
When I was in this situation, I somewhat wanted advice, but really I wanted someone to just take the time to talk to me.<p>If you feel that way, I'm free to talk - send me an email or aim me - Spyckie (at) gmail or Spyckie on aim.
mattdennewitz超过 16 年前
social life at that age is ebb &#38; flow, man. just find your similarities and try not to exacerbate the differences. youre in a hyper-sensitive stage of development and anyone you can find to lean on for growth is going to be an invaluable resource. hell is (mostly) not other people, hell is over-analyzation.<p>college, hopefully, will blow your mind. it may not be everything you want it to be, and may not even be right for you, but it will take a <i>great</i> personal undertaking on your part to <i>not</i> meet some excellent people.
brandong超过 16 年前
<i>I feel like just another Holden, which probably makes the entire situation worse.</i><p>Holden? I've wiki'd it to no avail. Can someone enlighten me?
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noahlt超过 16 年前
Work hard and get into a good college.
charlesju超过 16 年前
Here is a concept.<p>Your friends don't need to share the same interests as you and you can still be friends.
anewaccountname超过 16 年前
There is an old saying: "bored people are themselves, boring"
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xenophanes超过 16 年前
&#62; Where are the truly interesting people in life?<p>www.curi.us
Scriptor超过 16 年前
This is coming in a whiles after your post, but hopefully I can still put in some input.<p>I am a freshman in college with my first semester finished. In high school, I had about 3 good friends I enjoyed hanging out with. Besides them, I rarely had any social interaction. I was rarely (maybe once or twice?) invited to anything by anyone other than those 3 friends. The end of my senior year especially was depressing. I got to see everyone else, including my good friends, get invited to a good number of graduation parties while I stayed home. Weekend nights on the computer (like this one now) were common.<p>Enough about myself, but hopefully that gives you an idea of where I'm coming from. This advice is from very recent experience. I understand what you mean by having people you only have a specific interest with. While others say this is normal, I don't think they git it. If every time you're with them, the conversation turns to just computers or whatever, it's not real friendship. One piece of advice is that you could try doing something or going somewhere with people, so it's not all about a conversation. I also know that living in certain towns (like my hometown) finding something to do can be near impossible.<p>Now, for making new friends. Honestly, this is hard in high school, but not impossible. Friendships ebb and flow, and all of my friendships have seen different levels. Joining clubs is one good strategy. You could even try starting a club with someone else. For example, if you know someone who enjoys programming and you do too, you could both start a programming club. Why when I just said that <i>only</i> talking about computers is not frienship? Because having a club means you have to interact with people and it can bring in situations for meeting other people. Often, just having a good time with someone is a good sign.<p>Now, for the advice that is probably most important, what will happen at college. I'm a geek, and I chose NYU, a college that I'm pretty sure is not very geeky at all. I did this on purpose, because I wanted a clean slate and an environment that actively pushed me to become more social. Here's some tips:<p>- You <i>have</i> to do whatever you can to meet random people in the beginning. Sit with people at lunch, talk to people before class, join clubs, go out with floormates. I didn't do this at all, and now I regret that my only friends are from my floor. You just have to take advantage of this critical period when socializing is extremely open.<p>- I was extremely depressed during my first few days at college. Many others seemed to have something amazing about them, playing an instrument, photography, acting, etc. Everyone else also seemed much more sociable while I stayed quiet most of the time. I often thought whether I made the right college choice. But after those few days, I suddenly fit in well enough. I was still very much the same person, but after all the stuff about "whoa! you play guitar!" or "dude, you've got so many movies", personalities became more dominant. I wasn't an asshole, and I could be funny on occasion, and I danced like an idiot, but a funny idiot. So the moral of this is, do something in high school that you can show off to other people so those first few college days won't be as painful. Otherwise, just be a nice guy and if you come up with something funny, clever, or interesting, say it!<p>- After a few weeks of college, you will notice that everyone seems to have an individual label. I don't mean prep, jock, goth, or things like that. More like, everyone has a few personality traits that make them who they are. Somebody might be the big, outgoing guy, or the californian Asian dude, or the quiet we-need-to-get-this-guy-a-date nerd (guess who I am). Whatever happens, don't be the awkward guy. This will mean being natural and casual. If you don't think you can hold a one-on-one conversation with a girl, even if she's just a floormate, then frankly, don't. Large groups are your safest bet.<p>To return to your high school troubles, here's one last piece of advice. Even though the guy who might be good at acting or talking to girls has his own kind of smartness, make sure that both you and other people respect you. Don't mix with people who disparage science if you're into science. Find people who are willing to be intellectual.<p>I'm afraid that much of the above was too long, off-topic, or just weird. I'm pretty much writing this as stream-of-consciousness. Just remember: Be yourself. You can change yourself. You have to like what you change into.
time_management超过 16 年前
<i>I have no social group of my own and go back and forth between their friend circles.</i><p>That's a sign that you're an interesting person. It's painful, though.<p><i>I feel like when I talk to my "friends", I either have to talk all about computers, or all about music, or whatever that they're interested in, but never a mixture of everything.</i><p>You need to swallow your pride and learn how to make small talk. It's frustrating for intense people like us, not because we're too smart or to good for small talk, but because we frankly don't care about things like sports teams or the weather (or if we do, we care too much and can recite sports/weather statistics and bore people to death). However, it's a skill you'll need to learn, and you might as well do it now.<p><i>Everyone has told me to wait until college, and then I will find new people, but everyone I know in college generally sticks with the same friend group that they had in high school (hence why I would know), so I don't have much hope in that.</i><p>College is less cliqueish than high school, but still much more cliqueish than the real world.<p>Most people have "cliques" (which usually emerge from what floors people are on in freshman year) because they are insecure and need a set of people whom, even if they are not close to any of them individually, they recognize as "friends". They rely on their base social group (most of whom are not very close friends) more than on individual friends, and meet dates and new people through this group.<p>The high school cliques break up a bit in college, unless a large number of students from your high school go to the same school.<p><i>Where are the truly interesting people in life?</i><p>All over the place, literally and figuratively. Quality people are both rare and common; there are few of them, but they can be found everywhere. Most of my friends in college were international students, but I've met interesting and smart people literally everywhere, of all nationalities, races, and social classes.
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giles_bowkett超过 16 年前
what in the hell does this have to do with hacker news? why are you asking programmers for advice on making friends? I think you're missing some key information about programmers here.<p>anyway, if your friends annoy you, spend less time with them, and go to places you haven't been before, pursuing whatever interests you have, and see if you meet people.<p>personally I deal with alienation by telling everyone I know to go to hell and seeing who sticks around anyway. I'm not actually qualified to give anybody advice on this topic, but I'm just reiterating my initial point now.<p>might as well reiterate my second point. I have the opposite problem: making too many new friends and not having the time to follow through on the friendship. this comes about because I have a lot of interests that I pursue really intensely. if you pursue a lot of interests, you'll meet people. so do that, but without being too intense about it to make any space for new friendships to develop, and you're good.
Allocator2008超过 16 年前
This is a link to a therapist I use all of the time. She is awesome:<p><a href="http://www-ai.ijs.si/eliza/eliza.html" rel="nofollow">http://www-ai.ijs.si/eliza/eliza.html</a>
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point超过 16 年前
Do you have any true friends who are just plain old normal, and not exceptional in any way? If you don't then you are lacking something fundamental - it's you who is flawed, not them.
known超过 16 年前
Consider joining local chapter of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toastmasters_International" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toastmasters_International</a>
known超过 16 年前
Have you tried Facebook?