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The problem with "vibe coding"

135 点作者 jmmv27 天前

22 条评论

commandersaki27 天前
<i>One of the genuinely positive things about tools like Copilot and ChatGPT is that they empower people with minimal development experience to create their own programs. Little programs that do useful things - and that’s awesome. More power to the users.</i><p>I&#x27;ve changed my outlook on vibe coding after seeing the results of this wholesome vibe coding: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=4pJUXocn7aE" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=4pJUXocn7aE</a> .<p>This guy didn&#x27;t just make a small program, he made a product that is attuned to some very stringent requirements. If you gave this project to experienced software developers it would be heavy on process and light on impact, take forever to make, and stupid expensive.
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linsomniac27 天前
&gt;they empower people with minimal development experience to create their own programs.<p>The author goes out of their way to play up the toy aspect of the LLMs when driven by the inexperienced. No mention is made of them being used by experienced developers, but I get the impression he feels they aren&#x27;t useful to the experienced.<p>I&#x27;m just playing with a small client&#x2F;server tool (rsync but for block devices), and vibe coding allowed me to figure out some rough edges of my design document, and experiment with &quot;what would it look like built with threads? As async code? As procedural?) I would never have done that before because of the sheer amount of time it would take, I&#x27;d have picked what I thought was best and then lived with the sunk cost falacy until I had no other choice. It did a pretty good job of catching reasonable exceptions in the communication code which I probably would have just let throw a traceback until I got a bug report. It did a great job of adding logging and debugging options. And I had it take 4 attempts at making a &quot;fancy&quot; --progress display and picked the one I liked the best.<p>LLMs give a level of exploration to software development that we haven&#x27;t seen since the good old days when HP set up several groups to each build their next generation workstation environment, and then picked the best one.<p>IMHO, the experienced software developers stand at a unique position to take advantage of these LLMs that far outstrip what an inexperienced developer can do.
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alganet27 天前
Sometimes I want to cook a home meal.<p>If I wanted to open a large world class fast food chain, I wouldn&#x27;t be cooking home meals then. That would be silly.<p>Copilot can help me cook the equivalent of a McDonalds special in terms of software. It&#x27;s good, I think McDonalds is delicious.<p>But it cannot help me cook a home meal software. It will insist that my home made fries must go in a little red box, and my fish sandwich needs only half a slice of cheese.<p>Deeply into that metaphor, maybe someone who has only worked for fast food chains might forget that a lot of good industrial dishes are variations of what previously were home cooked meals.<p>I am glad that copilot can help young cooks to become fast food workers. That really looks like something.<p>Well, I take pleasure in cooking home meal software. Can you make a copilot that helps with that?<p>You know what, nevermind. I don&#x27;t need a copilot to cook home meals. I have a bunch of really good old books and I trust my taste.<p>It&#x27;s not like some big company is going to be interested in some random amateur dish, is it? It was definitely not cooked for them.
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makeitdouble27 天前
&gt; To me, programs are “works on my machine” code.<p>My main takeaway from vibe-coding is that nobody cared enough to fill that niche and expectation. And it was really frustrating, yet we&#x27;re getting there through convolutated, inefficient and borderline barbaric means.<p>People are still lamenting after HyperCard. Automation on windows or macos didn&#x27;t go anywhere. Shortcuts were a better step into that direction but I feel it got stuck in the middle as Apple wasn&#x27;t going to push it further. Android had more freedom yet you won&#x27;t see a &quot;normal&quot; user do automation either.<p>If we&#x27;re going to point the middle finger at vibe-coding, I wish we had something to point to as a better tool for the general population to quickly make stuff they want&#x2F;need.<p>(Doing it as a professional dev is to me another debate, still with nuance in it IMHO. I&#x27;d also love better prototyping tools to be honest.)
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nonethewiser27 天前
Im so confused on what vibe coding is.<p>Is it:<p>- just pressing tab and letting copilot code whatever?<p>- asking an llm to do everything that it can and falling back on your own brain as needed or when its easier.<p>I guess probably more like the latter. I was just surprised to hear there was a special term for it. I thought everyone was doing that.
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rvz27 天前
‘Vibe coding’ isn’t software engineering.<p>It throws away decades of software engineering principles in favour of unchecked AI output by clicking “accept all” on the output.<p>You would certainly NOT use ‘vibe coded’ slopware that powers key control systems in critical infrastructure such as energy, banking, hospitals and communications systems.<p>The ones pushing “vibe coding” are the same ones who are all invested in the AI companies that power it (and will never disclose that).<p>An incident involving using ‘vibe coded’ slopware is just waiting to happen.
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gorgoiler27 天前
It’s implied that <i>programs</i> are personal but <i>product</i> code goes through peer review, checking the premise of the change as well as the implementation.<p>When someone reviews vibe coded patches and gives feedback, what should the reviewer expect the author to do? Pass the feedback onto their agent and upload the result? That feels silly.<p>How has code review changed in our brave, vibey new world? Are we just reviewing ideas now, and leaving the code up to the model? Is our software now just an accumulation of deterministic prompts that can be replayed to get the same result?
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0xCE027 天前
The real problem with &quot;vibe coding&quot; (or any coding, or with any product what so ever) is that the end user probably is not a programmer, and therefore cannot have professional judgement on the quality of the implementation. The only thing typical end user care is the perceived behavior, not the implementation details.<p>As it is easier and cheaper to do anything, the result is low-quality products. This of course serves well for the real professionals, who can now sell premium quality products at premium pricing for those who know and want the quality.
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pjs_27 天前
Right now there are thousands of apps getting built with AI that are going to work surprisingly well, will get embedded into all sorts of fundamental processes — and will start to perform unacceptably badly in two or three years. God knows what we do with this information but it seems clear we are setting up for a tsunami of horrible performance regressions
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jumploops26 天前
This article starts to touch on an important distinction between software and products, but seems to miss the larger picture.<p>With the cost of developing software dropping to near zero, there are a whole class of product features that may not be relevant for most users.<p>&gt; You haven’t considered encoding, internationalization, concurrency, authentication, telemetry, billing, branding, mobile devices, deployment.<p>Software, up until now, was only really viable if you could get millions (or billions) of users.<p>Development costs are high, and as a product developer you&#x27;re forced to make software that covers as many edge cases as possible, so that it can meet the needs of the most people.<p>I like to think of this type of software as &quot;average&quot; -- average in the sense that it&#x27;s tailored not to one specific user or group of users, but necessarily accommodating a larger more amalgamous &quot;ideal&quot; user.<p>We&#x27;ve all seen software we love get worse over time, as it tries to expand it&#x27;s scope to more users.<p>Salesforce may be the quintessential example of this, with each org only using a small fraction of it&#x27;s total capabilities.<p>Vibe coding thus enables users to create programs (rather than products) that do exactly what they want, how they want, when they want. Users are no longer forced into the confines of the average user, and can instead tailor software directly to their needs.<p>Is that software a product? Maybe one day. For now, it&#x27;s a solution.
zachthewf27 天前
The argument is that vibe coding is great for little personal programs but bad for full-blown products.<p>I don&#x27;t think you can ship a fully baked product made exclusively with AI coding yet. But it&#x27;s *really* useful for investigative product development - e.g. when you have a few different ideas for how something might work but aren&#x27;t quite sure what&#x27;s best. I used to regret that I never mastered Figma or other mockup tools - now I never will have to.
__MatrixMan__27 天前
This is about the problem with vibe coding your way to a product. But if the vibes are strong enough, maybe we don&#x27;t need products at all?<p>They do tend to complicate things, with all of their moats and such. I never wanted a product that did the thing, I really just wanted to do the thing. &quot;Works on my machine&quot; might be good enough if you&#x27;re unlikely to want to repeat yourself on a different machine.
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alexashka27 天前
&#x27;The problem&#x27; is this species prefers doing instead of thinking.<p>&#x27;Vibe coding&#x27; is merely an instance.
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gscott27 天前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.pymnts.com&#x2F;artificial-intelligence-2&#x2F;2025&#x2F;openai-developing-ai-agent-to-replace-software-engineers-cfo-says&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.pymnts.com&#x2F;artificial-intelligence-2&#x2F;2025&#x2F;openai...</a>
Vanit26 天前
I agree with the article, but that&#x27;s not how the vibe coders see themselves. From their perspective they can&#x27;t see the gap between programming and product, and in my experience are pretty hostile to feedback from real software engineers.
OutOfHere27 天前
I wish there were no &quot;software products&quot; at all. They usually just come in the way. I favor open source, and not imposing unnecessary constraints on users. Every piece of software should be swappable, and tying it to a vendor makes it less so.
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pfraze27 天前
Honestly just good advice for engineers in general - understand the difference between programs and products
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revskill27 天前
To effectively vibe code, u must setup a really clean foundation first, so that llm knows their boundary. Following best practices is a must.
asadotzler27 天前
The real takeaway here is that programs you whip up for your own use, by any means, are not the same things as maintainable products you can deliver to customers.<p>Vibe coding, or VB tricks and hacks 25 years ago, or whatever, sure, do it if that works for you, but that&#x27;s not a product you can maintain for a customer base. It&#x27;s a program, not a product.
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wolvesechoes27 天前
I have a fairly successful heuristic - the more words about &quot;empowerment&quot; or &quot;democratization&quot; are being spilled around, less power and democracy common people have. There is a reason corporate snakes love these words so much. But hey, enjoy your vibe-coded app and believe that this tech is hyped because of perspectives on betterment of human society and individual emancipation, not because it will allow our technocratic overlords tighten the leash.
amai26 天前
There is a problem with vibe coding? You don&#x27;t say!
anal_reactor27 天前
I love it how AI-sceptics just keep moving the goalposts.