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Soldiers in combat can kill without moral injury

37 点作者 domofutu24 天前

15 条评论

tbrownaw24 天前
&gt; <i>These findings contradict the commonly-held idea that killing is an &#x27;unnatural&#x27; act for humans that inevitably inflicts a moral injury on the individual, the researchers write in Armed Forces and Society.</i><p>&gt; <i>&quot;There is a widespread belief in society that taking the life of another person goes against human nature, and that this will easily create what psychotraumatology refers to as &#x27;moral injuries&#x27;,&quot; said Nordstrand in a press release.</i><p>I had not thought that that belief was anywhere near as common as this seems to suggest.
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bjornsing24 天前
The conclusion sounds reasonable and may well be correct. But I’d still be a bit worried about selection effects. The kind of person who signs up for a tour of duty to Afghanistan is probably a bit different than someone who signs up for a UN peacekeeping mission.<p>So an alternative conclusion &#x2F; title could be: “Moral injury more common among those with high moral standards”.
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jmward0124 天前
Time plays a factor that may not be well controlled for here. As you get older the actions you have taken and the events you have participated in can impact you in new ways.
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quantified24 天前
I would be surprised if there were any universal sense of moral injury. If the child grows up with warrior morals, they will not worry about opponent&#x27;s death.
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somenameforme24 天前
There&#x27;s a major bias in this study. Many of the people most negatively affected by combat have exactly 0 interest in discussing it, even with those close to them or other veterans. This study observed this bias but seems to have made no effort to go beyond acknowledging it:<p>---<p>Combat Study: ... non-responders had more long-term sick leave and social benefits than the survey responders (p &lt; .001). Accordingly, there was a response bias in terms of study participants being in better health and having less need of government assistance than the non-responders. Moreover, there were significant differences in biological sex and age between responders and non-responders (p &lt; .001) such that women and older veterans had higher response rates.<p>---<p>Noncombat Study: The responders were significantly older and had significantly lower frequencies of short- and long-term sick leaves, long-term welfare benefits, and sick leave due to mental illness (p &lt; .001). Thus, similar to the trend in the combat-oriented sample, these results show a response bias in terms of responders being in better health and having less need of government assistance than the non-responders.<p>---<p>It dismissed the need to consider these biases with: &quot;Although the non-responder analysis revealed some response bias, the overall response rate was high in both studies, and the effect size estimates associated with the observed response bias were small.&quot; But that seems questionable. The response rate was less than 60% in both studies, and giving an effect size estimate on an unmeasured and &quot;significantly&quot; demographically different population seems to be a textbook example of begging the question.
singularity200124 天前
One of the greatest achievements of free speech laws is that in Germany one can write the truth &quot;soldiers are murderers&quot; on T-shirts
thayne24 天前
Wouldn&#x27;t another possible explanation of these results be that trying to kill someone, or participating in actions with the goal of killing other people causes the same &quot;moral wound&quot; as actually killing someone?
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readthenotes124 天前
&quot;commonly-held idea that killing is an &#x27;unnatural&#x27; act for humans&quot;<p>Say what? It may be one of the most natural acts for humans as far as history shows
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trhway24 天前
The kind of soldier matters I think. For example Russia has been specifically recruiting prisoners convicted of very violent crimes.
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rurban24 天前
That&#x27;s why the usual strategy is to dehumanized your enemy by calling them some animal names. The Nazis called them rats, the Hutis in Ruanda called them cockroaches, the Russians and Ukrainians both use the same tactics
klntsky24 天前
&gt; if combat soldiers are, as a rule, psychologically unharmed by killing an enemy, does this increase the risk that they may be willing to kill captives or civilians who they have come to class as &#x27;the enemy&#x27;?<p>It&#x27;s obviously the opposite: the more traumatized one is, the more likely he is to commit a war crime.
genericperson6624 天前
Who the f funds this research?
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maoberlehner24 天前
&gt; commonly-held idea that killing is an &#x27;unnatural&#x27; act for humans<p>People killing people is one of the better-documented aspects of human history. If it&#x27;s really a commonly-held idea, it&#x27;s a delusional one. I think what they mean is &#x27;unethical&#x27; rather than &#x27;unnatural&#x27;.
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tehjoker24 天前
It&#x27;s kinda crazy how the researchers suggest that we should use this research to make soldiers feel more comfortable with killing when I would characterize nearly every current use of force by western forces as aggression, or in the best case, sneaky bullshit.
notorandit24 天前
A life is a life is a life is a life.