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Just use HTML

197 点作者 kyrylo11 天前

48 条评论

mbgerring11 天前
Look — I’m old enough to remember when the “web standards movement” was controversial. I had to argue with my boss about using CSS vs tables. And I remember when you <i>did</i> need javascript to do a lot of things that HTML now does natively. JS frameworks had to exist to push the state of the art, because the state of the art got stuck. The standards bodies and browser vendors got their shit together, and now you can do things you used to need frameworks for in plain HTML. That’s great! But let’s not re-write history, here.<p>Software is in a constant state of revolution and counter-revolution. It’s one of the things that keeps this job interesting.
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xnorswap11 天前
Somehow this site is both plain HTML yet also blocks the Firefox reader button, rendering it unreadable.<p>( Edit: Browsing to <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;justfuckingusehtml.com&#x2F;index.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;justfuckingusehtml.com&#x2F;index.html</a> shows the reader button, I guess Firefox has a really dumb heuristic for when it shows. )
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InMice11 天前
You don&#x27;t need to swear at me about it, thanks.
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reconnecting11 天前
We made tirreno website [1] with only HTML 4.01 and 1 transparent pixel, no CSS or JS. Works well on any device. Easy to update. Highly recommended.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.tirreno.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.tirreno.com&#x2F;</a>
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mdaniel11 天前
Sponsored content via a justfucking website. Bold move<p>Anyway, I am firmly in the &quot;self-hosting modern Sentry is crazypants&quot; camp, but <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;telebugs.com&#x2F;alternatives&#x2F;glitchtip" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;telebugs.com&#x2F;alternatives&#x2F;glitchtip</a> reads like a hit piece, and not a serious &quot;but, why?&quot;<p>I&#x27;ll keep my Rails commentary to myself
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cbeach11 天前
Cleaning out the wordy, &quot;oh so edgy&quot; embellishment (probably authored by AI, ironically), here&#x27;s a ChatGPT summary:<p><i>HTML is simpler, faster, and more reliable</i> The author rails against “bloated, over-engineered” JavaScript frameworks and build tools, pointing out that plain HTML loads instantly and “just fucking works” without constant updates or breaking changes<p><i>Frameworks add needless complexity and cost</i> You don’t need to manage hundreds of dependencies, CI&#x2F;CD pipelines, hydration errors or “tree-shaking” when all you really want is a button or a bit of text. HTML has done this flawlessly for decades<p><i>Native browser features handle interactivity</i> Modern HTML alone supports expandable sections (&lt;details&gt;&#x2F;&lt;summary&gt;), native dialogs, form controls of every kind (date pickers, sliders, color inputs, file uploads), and even creates global JS variables from element IDs—no framework required<p><i>Deployment is trivial</i> “Just drag, drop, and you’re done.” No container orchestration, no multi-step build process, no DevOps magic - HTML is ready to serve straight from any web server<p><i>Universality and longevity</i> Everyone “knows HTML” - from your grandparents’ wartime hand-coded tables to your dog’s Fiverr gig. It’s been powering the web since the beginning and will outlast any trendy framework<p><i>A call to rethink our tooling addiction</i> With AI able to spit out pixel-perfect HTML in seconds, clinging to heavy frameworks is framed as an outdated habit. The author challenges readers: stop overengineering and embrace the elegance of raw HTML
Retr0id11 天前
What percentage of this was written by an LLM? (Asking out of genuine curiosity, parts of it are triggering my LLM-detector while others feel human)
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sam_lowry_11 天前
I would have added a section about tab index.<p>Tab indices is lost sacred knowledge.<p>Places like GitHub, GitLab and even Zed homepage break Vimium by adding &quot;shortcuts&quot; without even thinking to implement proper tab indices.
kyrylo11 天前
Stop reinventing the wheel. The web was doing just fine before your bloated frameworks crawled out of the sewer.
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obsolete_wagie11 天前
&quot;AI&#x27;s out here, a gift from the heavens (or at least from Sam Altman&#x27;s nerd fortress) ready to write your shitty little to-do app in five seconds flat. It can churn out pixel-perfect HTML, debug your fuck-ups, and probably even wipe your ass if you ask nicely. But no, you&#x27;re still humping your frameworks like they&#x27;re the last lifeboat on the Titanic.&quot;<p>Personal opinion is that AI will reduce the need for higher abstraction software libraries. ORMs for instance could go away. We will see wildly different software paradigms as the need for human understanding drops
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JKCalhoun11 天前
I could live with it ... if only there was a significant left margin.
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baal80spam11 天前
I loved web 1.0, but try to sell it to a customer.
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daft_pink11 天前
why is this flagged. it’s f’ing awesome
simonw11 天前
TIL (from &quot;Choose a week to question all your life choices&quot;) about:<p><pre><code> &lt;input type=&quot;week&quot;&gt; </code></pre> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developer.mozilla.org&#x2F;en-US&#x2F;docs&#x2F;Web&#x2F;HTML&#x2F;Reference&#x2F;Elements&#x2F;input&#x2F;week" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developer.mozilla.org&#x2F;en-US&#x2F;docs&#x2F;Web&#x2F;HTML&#x2F;Reference&#x2F;...</a><p>Weird that it&#x27;s supported by mobile Safari but not desktop Safari (according to the support table). And not in Firefox yet.
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spudlyo11 天前
Even in a humorous context, cursing and insults land much better if they&#x27;re used more sparingly. At some point in the essay they became distracting, and by the end I found them tiring.
cadamsdotcom11 天前
We have great base tech on the web because people loved it when it was part of a trendy js framework, and wanted it in the base platform.<p>If the web wasn’t so amenable to frameworks &amp; polyfills HTML wouldn’t have gained all the nice things in HTML5. We can be grateful for the explosion of ideas &amp; the standards process that (mostly) keeps the best ones.
ninetyninenine11 天前
I wish html would just look good from the get go.
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prakashn2711 天前
Too much swearing and I lost the context midway
saghul10 天前
Ha, nice! I created a little static site generator inspired by this &quot;brutalist&quot; style, in order to learn some Swift: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;saghul&#x2F;brutalist-blog-generator">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;saghul&#x2F;brutalist-blog-generator</a>
fithisux11 天前
I love it. A million thumbs ups.<p>I am a data engineer and coming from scientific background.<p>And guess what works most of the time, the simplest (not naive or buggy) solution to your problem that takes into account the human factor, the consumer of your solution. That poor being currently being ousted from the binary garden of Eden by AI cops.
throwanem11 天前
Yeah, I remember Zed in 2009. Do you think no one else does? What an embarrassing way to advertise.
drgo11 天前
Did not work on me. I have never used a web framework, but now I want to use one just out of spite.
raspyberr9 天前
I would like this if it actually stuck to its own philosophy but for some crazy reason just HTML needs googletag manager and telebugs to look after it. Webdevs just can&#x27;t leave shit alone can they?
danhau11 天前
Wow, I had no idea elements with an id attribute are directly accessible in JS.<p>Combine this with Pico CSS or one of those minimal stylesheets (Water.css) to get better typography and spacing and you‘re set.<p>I guess htmx is the extreme version of this no-framework philosophy… kinda.
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icameron11 天前
* Except in email clients.
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bgro11 天前
What if instead of just using html, instead we use 20 JavaScript frameworks that talk to an electron server to call a series of microservices to determine which sql lite docker instance to call.<p>Then, sql lite returns a connection string to aws to pull XML containers of html that are converted to JSON and sent back to the front end to convert to html and render the page.<p>Maybe we can use lazy loading and some sliding panels on the page that slide in with fully rendered bmp images that are 20MB each despite only appearing in a 16x16 icon.<p>Oh darn this is just the standard webdev JavaScript bro tech flow? Guess I need to keep memorizing leetcode until I get my next genius JavaScript main idea to add another layer to this.
iammrpayments11 天前
Unfortunately there is a lot of stuff that can’t match accessibility standards without javascript (e.g. combobox).<p>If you use a framework it’s much easier to implement these components.
namegulf10 天前
That&#x27;s a good reset.<p>With Web UI&#x27;s bloated with frameworks, large CSS, crazy javascript, etc...<p>Go back to basics the way HTML is intended, simple and fast!
senfiaj9 天前
He still used inline styles a couple of times. He also uses the Google Analytics script.
c0311 天前
Fuck I hate this moronic regressionist mindset. If your project is too insignificant to benefit from a framework, then just don&#x27;t use it? It has nothing to do with the technology, but everything to do with your piece of shit usecase.
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ValveFan696910 天前
For those that missed it: the author overzealously uses swear words as a form of comedy.
incoming121110 天前
So some lefty tool got his nickers in a twist and flagged this. Wow.
tiahura11 天前
The month picker doesn&#x27;t function in FF 138.0.1 win64.
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groby_b11 天前
While there are some valid points hiding deep in the sewage flowing across the page, it also misses a core point: The web (HTML&#x2F;CSS&#x2F;JS) is by now good enough to make actually decent UI that doesn&#x27;t look like it&#x27;s escaped from the 90s and is holding Geocities hostage.<p>As is, the page mostly screams &quot;I don&#x27;t want to learn anything new&quot;.
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radar131011 天前
He or she needs to wash their mouth out with some soap.
camcil11 天前
The complexity justifies the salary.
1970-01-0111 天前
The raw ugliness of their site is reasonable cause to do the exact opposite.
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smitty1e11 天前
Tarantino wept.
LetsGetTechnicl11 天前
I mean yeah I guess, but does this person really think people carry groceries in Gucci bags?
brvier10 天前
Why flagged ?
ratatoskrt11 天前
Why does this feel like an LLM&#x27;s attempt at satire?
criddell11 天前
&gt; Just fucking use HTML. I shit you not, it actually looks good<p>It <i>can</i> look good.
cheschire11 天前
I’m not entirely sure this form of satire lands the same way it used to now that screaming and insults are considered a normal form of discourse, especially in TV politics.
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rad_gruchalski11 天前
&gt; Hey, dipshit!<p>I couldn’t care less but… good luck convincing people with this attitude.
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lerp-io11 天前
another monday, another js framework debate shitpost.
AlecSwanky11 天前
funny
roschdal11 天前
Yes. Just use HTML.
drannex11 天前
this is the best version of any of these I&#x27;ve seen over the years.<p>and if anyones lame fucking corpo filter guard catches this, then let them catch these archived hands: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20250512141449&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;justfuckingusehtml.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20250512141449&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;justfucki...</a>
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