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The Problem with Teens Isn't Smartphones–It's Their Families

69 点作者 illinx2 天前

24 条评论

lolinder2 天前
This article&#x27;s methodology leaves a lot to be desired. They throw out dozens of studies with a flippant, poorly justified dismissal and then proceed to take a cursory, high-level glance over a single other study that supported their desired conclusion. Having given that study a passing thought they proceed to wonder at &quot;just how glaring this data is&quot; from that single report and how it is that everyone else can&#x27;t see it.<p>Ironically, the whole thing reads like someone did all the research and writing on a smartphone and didn&#x27;t take the time to really construct an argument.<p>I don&#x27;t disagree with the title—my assumption is also that parenting would have the largest impact—but the article does a very bad job justifying it and the conclusion that <i>therefore</i> technology isn&#x27;t worth talking about is absurd. We do a lot of research that is aimed at helping out with marginal gains because marginal gains matter! The entire field of K-12 education exists to be a marginal improvement on top of what parents are already offering. Should we stop researching that field because there&#x27;s evidence that parents are the single biggest factor in educational outcomes?<p>Most of our policy choices surrounding children are there explicitly to be a safety net for children whose parents can&#x27;t provide the environment that they need.
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arp2422 天前
This post seems to be a McNamara fallacy: &quot;if it can&#x27;t be quantified and measured then its irrelevant and can be ignored&quot;.<p>Look, I don&#x27;t have any answers here. I&#x27;m not involved with teens. I don&#x27;t really know much about this and maybe the author is correct. But I can spot a bad argument, and fixating <i>only</i> on suicide data and dismissing everything else as &quot;unreliable&quot; (based on a single small study) doesn&#x27;t seem the right approach.<p>In addition &quot;mental health&quot; is complex and most people suffering from poor mental health don&#x27;t commit suicide. There are different types of &quot;mental heath&quot; problems one can have, and it seems entirely plausible that some lead to relatively high rates of suicide and others have much lower rates.
NikolaNovak2 天前
I disagree with the data premise that only suicide data is valid.<p>For example, one possibility is that we DO have mental health crisis in young population, but availability and proficiency of mental health today avoids the suicide scenario. Plus there are tremendous number of significant mental issues which might not result in that most drastic of outcomes. Not claiming that&#x27;s the case, just that the very first paragraph of data selection feels massively arbitrary and hand-waved.
wintermutestwin2 天前
In 1988, California enacted a mental health parity law which private insurers to provide equal coverage for mental health and substance use disorder treatments, including services for children. There was a resultant explosion of rehab centers for kids opening in CA. Kids (mostly mid-upper class white kids) got put into rehab centers en masse. Suddenly, every parent in a dysfunctional family could point their fingers at the ubiquitous use of drugs (mostly alcohol and cannabis) among teens and thus absolve themselves of their personal failings as a parent.<p>Of course I am not arguing that kegger parties and smoking weed were positive things for kids, and certainly some small % of these kids were doing worse drugs, but I am quite certain from my own (fairly broad) annecdata that the root cause of these kids&#x27; self destructive behavior was their fucked up families.<p>And now parents can point their fingers at social media. History repeats, but the difference this time is that kids aren&#x27;t put into rehabs away from the family dysfunction and in an environment where some degree of self examination and self work is promoted.<p>When I was very young, I thought that my family dysfunction was an outlier, but my experiences in life lead me to believe that it is the norm and that healthy families are the outlier. Of course, that&#x27;s my own experience, but I am a greybeard now and have interacted with a large number of individuals across the full spectrum of social strata so the assessment of my anecdata sure seems more poignant with each passing year...
haswell2 天前
Anecdotally, almost everyone I know laments the decline of real social contact in recent years, and everywhere I go, people are buried in their phones, ignoring the real world around them. Social media discourse is more toxic than ever, and yet it continues to be a major aspect of people’s social contact.<p>For sake of argument, let’s say the issue <i>is</i> their families. Why are so many families turning out to be harmful environments?<p>My pet theory is that this erosion of social contact and propagation of toxicity is affecting all of us, so it seems natural that many family environments will suffer.<p>I think it’s too simplistic to conclude that “teens using phones” is the whole issue, but do think that phones and the underlying tech they currently represent is responsible for causing major systemic issues that in turn tend to effect teens more.<p>Singling out the suicide rate as a proxy for mental health seems like a major problem.
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nateburke2 天前
Why does the chart only include data from 2003, 2020, and 2023?<p>I am also curious about the mentioning of Indian males in the text alongside native American women, with the chart excluding Indian males, this is also somewhat confusing.<p>It is hard to get a sense of the actual data supporting the claims in the article.
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ayushrodrigues2 天前
Suicide rate is a strange metric to choose here. I believe smartphones are exceptionally damaging to teens, but the biggest effect is around their attention span and motivation.<p>The biggest mental health effect is the ADHD epidemic it&#x27;s bringing on.
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_rpxpx2 天前
Suicide rates are not a good metric of mental illness: they are a function of several things, most obviously opportunity and access to a means. E.g., in the UK, farmers have a disproportionately high rate of suicide because they have unusually ready access to guns. This post also distinguishes itself in speaking arrogantly about teens without bothering to check any record of what they have to say themselves. I think movements like &quot;Luddite Club&quot; are only going to accelerate, and they will be led by young women. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2023&#x2F;02&#x2F;02&#x2F;opinion&#x2F;teen-luddite-smartphones.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2023&#x2F;02&#x2F;02&#x2F;opinion&#x2F;teen-luddite-smar...</a>
danielvf2 天前
As almost every other commenter here has said, this is just a bad article in practically every way. It&#x27;s quite possible that the problem isn&#x27;t smart phones, but this article completely fails to show this.<p>Even the suicide data that they decide is the proper measure of mental health, and according to them proves that teens don&#x27;t have a problem, shows a 2x increase in teen girl suicide.<p>I&#x27;m going to so something I almost never do, and flag, since this is just bait. I would love to read a case for this with a better argument however.
robg2 天前
I’ve been looking at our school district’s data (top 10 by size in the country, almost 200k kids) and kids aren’t sleeping enough, and tech use is likely a big driver. Less than 20% of our 12th graders report getting 7 or more hours a night of sleep. The pediatric recommendation is 8-10 hours for those 12-18 years old (9-12 hours for ages 6-12). Sleep deprivation is well-documented as linked to mental health concerns like ADHD, anxiety, and depression. Sleep is how the brain washes away gunk (see also the glymphatic nervous system).<p>That said I have little doubt that less aware families are not enforcing sleep times as much as they used to. The moral panics on TVs and video games came with the advent of the tech then hung around for decades. People knew that kids awake late at night was bad for them. With phones, how many high schoolers have them in their rooms next to their beds? How many of us do?
xlii2 天前
&gt; That’s not actually true…there’s little evidence of a crisis at all in most European countries.<p>There&#x27;s plenty of evidence, but Europe is not US. US is federated, but has single entity that gather information in one language. Europe is much more fragmented and outside of some EU stats (that are sometimes incomplete) there isn&#x27;t a single source of truth to get.<p>The reality is simple: it&#x27;s a little bit of everything. Parents are busting their ass to pay for expensive housing and overall high costs of living. Attention is grabbed by greedy corps that don&#x27;t care if you get depressed about your situation as long as they get their euro&#x2F;dollar&#x2F;whatever and kids are neck deep in illusion of great created by influencers.
alistairSH2 天前
First it was rock and roll, then video games, then cell phones. When all along it’s been lack of mental health care in general. This shouldn’t be a surprise.
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ndileas2 天前
I think the core observation makes intuitive sense. But that&#x27;s not the same thing as it being true.<p>These issues are too subtle, complicated, and distributed for current social science tools. I kind of think the whole idea of science being able to improve societal well-being beyond the basics is misguided at this point.
huem0n2 天前
I think they leave out a lot of evidence, like rates of bullying-and getting bullied, being dramatically higher with cell phones. I&#x27;m not convinced that one correlation being murky == teen social media and smartphones are not a problem at all.
codeduck2 天前
I call shenanigans on this. Suicide rates are not a reliable signal for underlying mental health issues <i>in isolation</i><p>Bullying via social media and group chats is endemic, and phones function as a massive signal amplifier in this regard.<p>Furthermore, there is a growing body of evidence which link early smartphone use to poor outcomes in social skills, degraded critical thinking ability, and elevated rates of depression.<p>This feels very much like someone picking data to fit their hypothesis.
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EduardLev2 天前
I&#x27;ll echo the other comments in saying that I believe this to be not convincingly argued at best and at worst condescending. Terms like &quot;fairly obvious&quot;, implying parents &quot;don&#x27;t want to hear something&quot; feels to me an oversimplification, etc
ryandrake2 天前
You can’t tell your kid not to smoke if you smoke 2 packs a day, and you can’t tell your kid not to get addicted to social media if you’re addicted to social media. Kids are great at detecting hypocrisy. Parents need to set a better example with their own behavior.
mavsman2 天前
If smartphone companies and social media companies are stating that their products are causing a mental health crisis, there&#x27;s probably some merit to that.
ChrisMarshallNY2 天前
I think that the <i>example</i> our generation sets, is pretty important.<p><i>&gt; &quot;What you do speaks so loudly, I can&#x27;t hear what you&#x27;re saying.&quot;<p>-Ralph Waldo Emerson</i><p>For example, I know that I can get fairly cranky about ageism in tech, but I also understand where some of it comes from. My generation has been a pretty big dumpster fire, when it comes to examples. We&#x27;re the Gordon Gecko &quot;Greed is Good&quot; generation. Our kids kind of took the brunt of it, and, in my opinion, the world is on fire, basically due to our generation&#x27;s selfishness (and we&#x27;re not done, yet).
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bko2 天前
Usually when statistics conflict with whats in front of your eyes, its the statistics that are wrong.<p>I don&#x27;t know about suicide rates but let&#x27;s look at antidepressants. From 2016 to 2022, the monthly antidepressant dispensing rate among U.S. adolescents increased by 66.3%. This has been a steady increase, not just covid.<p>Anyone with teenagers in their home knows that a lot of kids are medicated and have high level of angst. Everyone knows that social media is almost always a net negative on their self image and overall well being. That&#x27;s not to mention the sexualization of children on TikTok and Instagram and the perverse incentive now that only fans is an option and increasingly normalized.<p>Children on phones are distracted. I&#x27;m even distracted and I have pretty high self control. They don&#x27;t belong anywhere near a school. Maybe they&#x27;re neutral, but are we really willing to bet your children&#x27;s well-being on that? Shouldn&#x27;t we try to have them live a life more similar to that of every other teenager born before 1990?<p>Parents experience similar negative consequences of social media doom-scrolling. I don&#x27;t need a study to tell me whats right in front of my eyes.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;publications.aap.org&#x2F;pediatrics&#x2F;article&#x2F;153&#x2F;3&#x2F;e2023064245&#x2F;196655&#x2F;Antidepressant-Dispensing-to-US-Adolescents-and?autologincheck=redirected" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;publications.aap.org&#x2F;pediatrics&#x2F;article&#x2F;153&#x2F;3&#x2F;e20230...</a>
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eimrine2 天前
Stupid parents raise stupid kids, no surprises. Schools won&#x27;t fix that, their goal is to ēducō, so producing smart kids were never the goal of Prussian-style education.
jacknews2 天前
So basically the problem is that the parents are stuck to their phones, and are neglecting the kids. same same.
llm_nerd2 天前
Suicide rate isn&#x27;t the singular outcome of mental health problems. Saying there isn&#x27;t a mental health crisis because teen girls don&#x27;t successfully kill themselves as much as middle aged white men seems spectacularly ill-conceived.<p>I also was thrown off by the use of the word &quot;Indian&quot;. I know &quot;American Indian&quot; is still used by the US government and in many circles, but it is jarring to see it like this. Literally thought it was actual transplants from India that were the subject, and was confused why the chart was showing &quot;Native American&quot; instead.<p>And FWIW, I don&#x27;t think smartphones are the cause of mental health issues, even if it&#x27;s an easy target. And bullying was prevalent long before we had social media. Just on the theme of speculating, I think the ennui of youth comes from the wider world. AGW, the growing political divide, the tendency of everyone to catastrophize and fear monger about literally everything -- if you slightly disagree with a choice, hold it as guaranteeing the end of humanity (see Elon Musk as a hilarious proto-example of this) -- to the point where everything feels broken and dire. And more recently teens live in a world where there aren&#x27;t even really career hopes because everything, we are told, is going to be done by robots and AI.
spacemadness2 天前
My eye hit the nazi symbol right next to his name then I scrolled and saw “white people” in the graph and noped the hell out of this one.