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Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay

230 点作者 melsmo超过 12 年前

26 条评论

robomartin超过 12 年前
I've posted this a few times on HN. The solution to this problem is, in my humble opinion, very simple. Rather than presenting a divided community to trolls, we have to present a united front. This would come in the form of a legal support organization that would be 100% dedicated to fighting trolls on behalf of it's members.<p>Call it insurance, if you will. Member companies would pay a monthly or yearly membership fee. In exchange for this the organization would evaluate any and all patent lawsuits and consider them for representation. It's stated mission would be to defend members from trolls.<p>How?<p>Well, for starters, imagine a legal organization with hundreds of millions of dollars in the bank. How many trolls would dare risk going up against them?<p>Second, I am not a lawyer, but I imagine that there would be a way for this organization to also create a cross-licensing ecosystem for member companies. Maybe this is ridiculous. I don't know. Imagine that every patent of every member company becomes an automatic IP license --only for the purpose of patent defense-- for all members. This means that for my annual fee I could have a virtual shield consisting of tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of patents protecting me.<p>How much is that worth? Any company doing anything at all that is not trivial should easily be able to afford a $10K per year fee. larger companies could do a lot more. Smaller ones less. It is not hard to imagine raising tens of millions of dollars per year and even reaching a hundred million. With careful management this organization could easily amass a billion dollars in the bank over a number of years.<p>This would effectively destroy the troll business without legislation and it would probably do wonders towards decimating bullshit software patents (or bullshit patents in general).
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wheels超过 12 年前
I was curious where Rackspace stands with their own portfolio, and it seems they have actually avoided patents, which surprised me somewhat for a large, public company:<p><a href="https://www.google.com/search?tbm=pts&#38;hl=en&#38;q=inassignee%3Arackspace&#38;btnG=" rel="nofollow">https://www.google.com/search?tbm=pts&#38;hl=en&#38;q=inassi...</a><p>The tone of the article -- specifically focusing on patent trolls being problematic, but less focus on the other systemic problems with the patent system -- made me wonder if they were just going after the cases that annoy <i>them</i>.
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steve8918超过 12 年前
What's to stop patent trolls from forming a corporation with no assets, suing people, and then declaring bankruptcy if they lose their case? They could forfeit their patents, but it would be worthless anyway if they lost the case.
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tzs超过 12 年前
What about legitimate inventors, rather than patent trolls? There is a large element of uncertainty in any patent suit that has a trial by jury, and it is not at all uncommon for clearly legitimate patents to be found invalid by the jury.<p>The SHIELD Act sounds like it would make it effectively impossible for any small inventor who is not wealthy to sue a large infringer, because the risk of total ruin would be too high.<p>The way to address the patent troll problem is to address the ACTUAL cause of the problem (standards for issuing patents are too lax).
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AlanSchoenbaum超过 12 年前
A big thank you to all of you who are thinking about this issue and posting your ideas. There is no one right way to fix the patent troll problem, but hopefully Congress will figure out that this is a serious problem for tech companies and will do something.<p>There is a long history here. These terrible software patents have been around a good while now, and they have been a curse on Internet companies for over a decade. The "America Invents Act" which passed about a year ago was the culmination of a lengthy process which started with the proposed Patent Reform Act of 2005. It went nowhere, nor did the later iterations in 2007, 2009 etc. These earlier bills definitely targeted patent trolls, but did not pass because of significant opposition by a coalition of interests that did not (and do not) want to accept the changes necessary to hammer the patent trolls. Take a look at the organizations against and for at the wikepedia entry for the Patent Reform Act of 2009 and you will see what I mean.<p>Now, those opponents are still powerful; therefore to pass any legislation a bill will need to be acceptable to most of them. That means any bill that passes will not be ideal. My goal is to try to get a bill that at least levels the playing field and puts plaintiffs in a position where they have economic risk. The status quo is simply untenable and it is getting worse.<p>Many of the comments here correctly point out flaws in the SHIELD Act. We will try hard to convince the sponsors to correct these flaws to ensure the bill has teeth. However we must not lose sight of the real issue, namely whether the bill can get out of committee and receive a majority of the House and 60 Senators. It will be hard, and it will take a lot of public support. Please write Congressmen DeFazio and Chaffetz, as well as your own Members of Congress and give them your point view. They will pay attention. If they do not hear from thousands of people, nothing will change.
mnutt超过 12 年前
The SHIELD Act is a great step, but I wonder how this will fare against the patent troll practice of setting up separate legal entities specifically for litigating individual patents? If they lose, they declare bankruptcy and move on to the next shell corporation.
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DenisM超过 12 年前
PG had a modest proposal to deal with the problem - name and shame lawyers who work for trolls, create a blacklist and refuse to deal with those lawyers. Trolls don't care about their reputation, but lawyers do. If we as an industry come together on this one the trolls will have no one to do the dirty work for them.
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AlisdairO超过 12 年前
Patent trolls aren't the problem. The problem is that it's a profitable business model to have an idea, patent it, and then sit on it waiting for somebody to accidentally recreate it.<p>The reason this is a profitable business model is because too many obvious patents are granted. If granted patents were truly non-obvious, the likelihood of accidental infringement should be exceedingly low.<p>Patent trolls are merely a symptom of this issue. Hurting trolls does little to attack the wider problem.
ahi超过 12 年前
&#62;They are just another patent troll attempting to take advantage of bad law. It is their nature. They look for opportunity, and patent litigation can be very profitable. The real problem is the law.<p>Disagree. Assholes will always be able to abuse the law. We should name and shame the trolls responsible. The lawyers and investors behind patent trolls should have severe social consequences.
rz2k超过 12 年前
The SHIELD Act does not strike me as the most effective way to attack this problem.<p>Presumably there are legitimate innovators who will not be as quick at execution as incumbent competitors. They may leverage themselves highly in order to try to scale up production, and afterwards will have scarce resources to hire legal representation.<p>Depending how open and shut the case looks, representation may take them on as clients anyway. This act would marginally decrease the likelihood that they would, whether it decreases it too little or too much is a legitimate concern.<p>Other industries than software are far more capital intensive. For instance most new drugs are not developed at the same companies that are the best at synthesizing compounds at scale and have the best distribution networks. However, investors assume the risk of funding expensive research, specifically because they know that in the rare case that it is successful, the large companies will buy the property rather than simply make it themselves.<p>The SHIELD Act could very well create a different model where all drug research had to take place under the umbrella of larger corporations that could fund expensive legal fights on short notice.<p>There is an overwhelming presumption that intellectual property is a sham in the software industry. Perhaps, software patents (and patents of business practices) generally slow progress more than they reward innovation. However, I don't understand how skepticism about the role of intellectual property protections has turned into uncritical acceptance that it only causes harm.
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gallipoli超过 12 年前
There is no need for elaborate laws to address the issue of patents for software and business methods. Nor a lawyer witch hunt. Nor some giant protection scheme like those mentioned in other comments.<p>The Constitution grants Congress the power to regulate patents. Everybody interested in solving this problem should ignore the half measures and demand the elimination of software and business method patents entirely. Other solutions will undoubtedly be gamed and the problem will persist.
hermanhermitage超过 12 年前
I'm wondering if you can analyse the problem of Patents from a game theoretic point of view.<p>The problem is this, those that don't Patent or were unable or disincentivized to Patent (different country, or different time period) cannot compete on a level playing field.<p>They do not gain sufficient arsenal to defend against Patents.<p>Patent law is fundamentally incompatible with the past. In a different era or different arena some ideas were not considered suitable for patenting (lack of utility, novelty, and nonobviousness).<p>An example is software patents or business process. As money pours in to create changes to the rules those not playing the same game are at a disadvantage.<p>That is their past IP unprotected by Patent law is now differentially disadvantaged in the marketplace.<p>The only way to rectify this is to reduce the power of Patents over time until they are eliminated.
jakejake超过 12 年前
It would seem like there could be legislation that says if you are not actively developing a product from a patent then you can't sue. I'm sure there's too much legal BS involving what "active" means, but it would seem like there must be some way to have a law that limits lawsuits to those people who are actually using their patent to create something.<p>Having the loser pay I think would also be a good step, however it probably would affect honest innovators when they're victims of patent infringement. Because it would be a huge risk to protect your patent. I know the argument against that is just get rid of patents, but I don't think that's realistically going to happen.<p>I can see why it's a tricky issue to legislate but it's so frustrating that seemingly nothing is being done.
larrys超过 12 年前
Notice that there is nothing in this blog post that indicates how vigorously they will fight the lawsuit and certainly no bravodo type language. Only essentially a call to action "We encourage all of our customers, partners, open source collaborators and friends to support Reps. DeFazio and Chaffetz in their effort to discourage these abusive patent troll lawsuits."<p>I takes this as potentially meaning that they might very well settle this out of court w/o paying -or- they are planning some other atypical legal action and don't want to telegraph anything. Even if they get this dismissed because of the github assumption that doesn't prevent it from being refiled correctly I believe.
krichman超过 12 年前
This isn't going to work, the majority of trolls are NPE's and can simply declare bankruptcy. How many defaults on payments are we going to have before lawyers simply refuse to act as defence?<p>I think we should require half of the money spent on legal teams for lawsuits to go to paying for the other party's legal expenses. I think this would reduce frivolous lawsuits because, whereas now the wealthiest party always wins, if the defendant/plaintiff has equal support the legally correct party might win.
TerraHertz超过 12 年前
Perhaps someone could patent the business method of patent trolling. Then sue the trolls for patent infringement.<p>I suppose this is wishful thinking. No doubt some patent troll company has already patented the idea of suing patent troll companies, and will sue you for infringing their patent if you try to sue them.<p>Personally I think it would be best to just abolish the entire patent (and copyright) system. But I know how impossibly unlikely that is.
jakozaur超过 12 年前
How about ending software patents in USA?<p>I have never heard from serious european company which argue that it need software patents to protect its IP.
grimey27超过 12 年前
Call 'em out and take action. Well done.<p>Now if Congress can tighten patent regs and eliminate the ability to troll altogether.
khet超过 12 年前
Patent troll's about page -&#62; <a href="http://www.personalweb.com/About.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.personalweb.com/About.html</a>
gitlock超过 12 年前
So what exactly can we do to make them pay?
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BryanB55超过 12 年前
Solution: If a court finds you to be a patent troll you get the death penalty.<p>That should solve things. :)
dreamdu5t超过 12 年前
Patents <i>ARE</i> the problem... not some vague notion of a poor implementation of them.<p>It will still be profitable to troll for patents even with the SHEILD act. The problem is the very idea of owning information/process.
maeon3超过 12 年前
The key is making congressmen pay attention to this is to translate it into words they can understand. Money. All the techno babble about who own's what and morality and fairness is like telling a dog to eat vegetables.<p>When patent trolls sue organizations for infringing on their patents with no intention of innovating, it creates less GDP which means less revenues for the big corporations which pay the most taxes, less taxes means less happy bottom feeder voters, which means you don't get re elected. When they get that through their heads, legislation will happen to fix the "injustice".
atomical超过 12 年前
Just curious, how much do vague patents like this cost? Are they cheap? Expensive?
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atomical超过 12 年前
It seems like PersonalWeb is trying to develop software...<p><a href="http://www.personalweb.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.personalweb.com/</a><p>Interesting that their CEO was involved early on in P2P.
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mtgx超过 12 年前
I wonder if Microsoft or Apple will oppose this bill. They haven't won all their patent lawsuits.
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