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Teller on theft in magic

156 点作者 robmil超过 12 年前

16 条评论

thaumaturgy超过 12 年前
I think the most common argument I hear against IP protections for software is that so much of it is obvious, or incremental. We have companies patenting and suing over techniques which are considered common knowledge by many programmers. How silly was it that Oracle's recent huge lawsuit ended up hinging on a range check function?<p>But is that the same as a masterful magic trick? And if not, should we treat it the same?<p>I don't think it's the same thing at all. A master magician might easily spend years practicing a trick -- the right mechanics, the right theatricality, anticipating the audience response, coming up with some new illusion -- and then, as the article describes, if that trick is self-contained enough, someone else might see it and work out how it's done and then sell the same trick to people who haven't invested anywhere near as much effort in practicing it.<p>So I don't think that we can say, well, this is just like software, it's an idea, and therefore we shouldn't protect it. I think that the very idea behind IP laws in the first place was to protect <i>effort</i> -- to safeguard someone's livelihood if they spent years developing an idea, so that someone else wouldn't simply come along immediately afterward and usurp the idea and rob that person of all of the effort that they invested in developing it.<p>There's this huge difference in effort between writing simple functions in software and developing masterful magic tricks, and we should recognize that.<p>Nor do I think that Penn &#38; Teller are at all guilty of hypocrisy. I think it's enough to have just seen some episodes of <i>Fool Us</i> to see that they can have huge amounts of respect for magicians who copy their tricks, <i>so long as those magicians add something unique to it</i>. That's all they ask: take what we do, and do it better.<p>I can not imagine defending the reverse engineering and subsequent sale of someone else's unique illusion under the umbrella that "software patents are bad".<p>I am somewhat more dismayed that the article seemed to present a good enough case for this all on its own, but the discussion so far is ignoring it -- almost as if everyone just skimmed it.
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AndyNemmity超过 12 年前
Gerard Bakardy reuploaded his version <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkq4XfFgCYs" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkq4XfFgCYs</a><p>The style couldn't be more different. The "effect" is the same, but the style is light years apart.<p>I don't believe you should be able to copyright an effect, and it's likely he's not even using the same effect.<p>I understand Teller wants to protect an idea he came up with, but I think it's protected simply by the grace and beauty of his version.
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modeless超过 12 年前
As staunch libertarians, I would have thought that Penn and Teller would be against such strong IP protection.
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robmil超过 12 年前
There's also an interesting parallel with standup comedy. At least here in the UK, the stealing of jokes by mainstream comedians from alternative performers is — while not accepted — viewed by the victims of the theft as just one of those things that happens, something to be ridiculed rather than something that can or should be fought.
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robmil超过 12 年前
Especially interesting when viewed in the context of recent patent disputes in the tech world. To hear Teller talk and to hear his performances described conveys that ethereal, intangible quality that "the real thing" has and that knockoffs generally fail to capture — a quality that seems instinctively to be deserving of protection.
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Bud超过 12 年前
It's easy to dismiss Teller because he works in Vegas in a rather quirky profession. But his is a peculiarly deep, sensitive and beautiful mind. I tend to love everything he writes, and most things written about him.
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javajosh超过 12 年前
Am I the only one who believes, after reading this article, that Gerard Bakardy is a creation of Teller's?
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nathannecro超过 12 年前
Just for easy reference, this is a video of Teller's 'Shadow".<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un1pNtmYguA" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un1pNtmYguA</a>
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asdfprou超过 12 年前
Link to Enoch Soames, if anyone is interested. <a href="http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/760/pg760.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/760/pg760.html</a>
udpheaders超过 12 年前
Ringling Bros and Barnum &#38; Bailey Clown College<p>It was worth the read just for that alone.
pqdbr超过 12 年前
I've been to their vegas show this August and I swear, it's something that I'll carry for me for a long time, if not forever. I couldn't believe my eyes and the feeling of witnessing those tricks live right in front of you is indescribable.
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thesash超过 12 年前
What's true for magic is true for tech: "Invention is all fuzzy, sloppy stuff"
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teyc超过 12 年前
taking this back to technology, and I'm thinking of Apple vs Samsung here. What do you all think?<p>Is scroll bounce magical, the way Teller's Shadow is? It is a lie, we all know that digital screens do not have bounces, and that's what surprises us and pleases us. What about slide to unlock?<p>Honestly, I'm torn by this. As much as I cherish things magical, I couldn't see how public interests would be served by giving these illusions exclusivity.
sneak超过 12 年前
I love Teller.<p>That said, you can't steal an idea. It's physically impossible. The original idea-haver still has it.
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madprops超过 12 年前
Teller is boss
gluegeorge超过 12 年前
this article is almost unreadably poorly written
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