Scott Forstall leaves Apple

Here are the major changes announced:<p>1. Jony Ive's role is expanded from Industrial Design to Industrial Design AND Human Interface. In other words, Ive is the new Design chief for hardware and software. This is huge.<p>2. Scott Forstall is out (after an interim advising role to Tim Cook). iOS goes to Craig Federighi who already oversees Mac OS. So, now iOS and Mac OS are overseen by the same person.<p>3. Eddy Cue's role is expanded (he previously was in charge of iTunes, App Store, iBookStore, iCloud). He now also oversees Siri and Maps.<p>4. Bob Mansfield will lead a new group called Technologies (wireless and semiconductor).<p>5. John Browett of retail is out.<p>Overall, I view this move as extremely positive.<p>Tim Cook just elevated his most reliable and capable SVPs to assume more leadership role.<p>John Ive, Eddy Cue, Mansfield and Federighi have all proven to be pretty spectacular. Ive with industrial design, Cue with iTunes/AppStore/iCloud, Mansfield with hardware and Federighi with Mac OS.<p>Further, Tim Cook gets rid of his problem SVPs - namely Browett who didn't match the culture of Apple... and Scott Forstall (who advanced iOS in huge ways) but reportedly had problems with getting along with other SVPs and also who disappointed users with iOS6/Maps (and also in my opinion poorly designed and implemented Apple apps... appstore reviews for Apple apps have gone significantly down the last year or two).<p>Cook will probably give Forstall a good severance package with an agreement that Forstall doesn't go to a mobile OS competitor.<p>I'm actually more optimistic on Apple with this bold management shakeup. Tim Cook is showing the moves of a bold leader... and it's exactly what Apple needs.

Anyone who A) likes Apple and B) has ever been in a Dixons store in the UK will be overjoyed with the other departure, Browett (head of retail and previous Dixons CEO) who is leaving <i>immediately</i> (compared to Forstall's year long "transition" departure). Dixons is everything that Apple should never be; terrible customer service, clueless minimum wage staff, horrible retail experience, and generally used only by people who desperately need something immediately or are too naive to find another store.<p>Recent news out of Apple regarding "cutbacks" at retail suggested he was nudging them in the same direction. Given that he got his first stock disbursement last week and was due <i>$58 million</i> over the next few years if he hung around, I'm guessing he was pushed. Great decision from Cook if that was the case.

&#62; Scott Forstall will be leaving Apple next year<p>&#62; Jony Ive will provide leadership and direction for Human Interface (HI) across the company<p>And thus ended the reign of skeuomorphism at Apple. Or, at least, the reign of hyper-realism and hyper-whimsy in UI design. Jobs or Forstall always seemed to favour it, but could you imagine Jony Ive signing off on a Podcasts app where half the screen is a reel-to-reel tape that bounces when you pause?

Interesting that Eddie Cue remains the company fixer, taking on the quirky Siri and the flakey Maps app just as he was once given a completely fucked up MobileMe.<p>This is good news.<p>Even better news is Browett's ouster. The business with his cutting operational corners in retail was a very, very bad omen. If they'd left him in, he might have poisoned a very important well for the company. Hopefully his replacement is closer to Ron Johnson's set of retail and service values.<p>N'bad, Tim.

People's reactions to this announcement are overly focused on Forstall's assumed support for heavy skeumorphism (and their excitement at his departure as lead proponent). I think his record as head of iOS since its inception is a much more salient issue.<p>Forstall led development of the fastest-growing, most popular computing platform of the past decade or so with, to be sure, a few notable screw-ups, but mostly incredible innovation and efficiency. While his departure does sound like the result of a power struggle that needed to be resolved, I really believe we're shortchanging his incredible achievements. Forstall's departure is not unequivocally or even clearly a victory for those who are firm believers in iOS and its ecosystem going forward. The only reasonable reaction is that we'll have to wait and see.

Just to be clear, he's not "leaving." He got fired. He got fired because after the map fiasco became apparent, he refused to send out an apology or sign his name to the one Tim Cook sent. (internal knowledge)

I think there's a few layers to this:<p>1) Forstall apparently wants to be CEO, and run the company. That puts him at odds with Cook (the CEO), and Ive (who wants to drive Apple's design decisions).<p>2) He's divisive. There's claims that neither Jonny Ive nor Bob Mansfield would talk to him without Tim Cook mediating. There's also claims that he "managed up" (showed off to the boss) better than he "managed down", and stole credit while deflecting critisism.<p>3) He was the guy in charge of Siri and Maps.<p>4) He was probably the one driving the post-Jobs war with Google.<p>Siri and Maps are Apple's way of fighting Google. Siri competes with Google Search, and Maps competes with Google Maps. There are reasons why Apple wants to spite Google, but the whole strategy could also be Scot Forstall's way of creating his own empire in Apple. Going head to head with Google requires lots of resources, which would all be under Forstall's command.<p>I don't think it's a good gamble for Apple. Google doesn't really hate Apple. I bet they'll port everything they can to iOS, as long as they can keep pushing their ads. Nexus might see Apple as a competitor, but Nexus isn't worth as much as adwords. As Eric Schmidt said in an interview - "It's their call".<p>If Apple goes down the path Forstall wants, they'll be going head to head with Google in the things Google is best at. If they stop trying to turn into a data / AI company, they can focus on what they do best - making easy to use devices which sell like hotcakes, and command a fat profit margin.<p>Android will hurt them, but as long as they focus on their core strengths (hardware, marketing, industrial design, interface design, and integration) they'll continue to do pretty well. They milked the iPod for a decade, despite there being plenty of better value competitors. They can do the same with the iPhone. They can do the same with whatever the next big thing is. I'd say going to war with Google will be at best a waste of time, and most likely a string of humiliating losses.

Does anyone but me here listen incessantly to podcasts?<p>The latest Podcasts App from iTunes is a skeuomorphic mess. It has a superfluous animation of a reel-to-reel player of course. But it utterly fails at its most basic task: playing a goddamn podcast. But don't take my word for it, it has a 1.5 star rating on iTunes: <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/podcasts/id525463029" rel="nofollow">https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/podcasts/id525463029</a><p>Not to mention crashes... Apple used to make jokes about the Windows blue screen of death. Well, that's my new day-to-day experience with iOS apps. I'm constantly restarting crashed apps over and over.<p>Honestly, this is good news if Forstall really is the driving force behind the deteriorating user experience of many apps.

He oversaw Siri and Maps, two products which over-promised and under-delivered, and six months ago he cashed out 95% of his Apple stock.<p>I think it was evident he lost the power struggle and it killed his enthusiasm. His heart just wasn't in it anymore.

Interesting that Jony will be overseeing UI. I expect a more minimalistic polish to upcoming interfaces. In other words, this is the beginning of the end for the skeuomorphism trend at Apple.

Interesting timing on the announcement, given that the stock market is closed today and likely tomorrow too.<p>As both a fan and shareholder of Apple, I'm very pleased to hear Browett is out. The stories that came out a couple months ago about the changes in Apple Retail did fill me with admiration for his management style.<p>Also, given how Forstall is described in a Business Week profile[1], <i>and</i> that Bob Mansfield is not only sticking around, but heading up a new team, I wonder if Mansfield laid out an ultimatum to Tim Cook about 'him or me'.<p>[1] <a href="http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/scott-forstall-the-sorcerers-apprentice-at-apple-10122011.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/scott-forstall-the-sorc...</a>

Can everyone saying "it's unfair to dump him due to Maps, because mapping is hard" realize it has nothing to do with the quality of the application, but the quality (or lack thereof) of the PR and management of customer expectations.<p>If Apple had come out 3 months before iPhone5 and said "Look, we really need to divorce ourselves from Google Maps as we can't be relying on an arch-competitor for such an important service, but please be aware that our new Maps app will have issues for several months as we work out the kinks based on customer feedback", and reinforced that message several times, the issue would have been close to a non-issue - and I think most people would have understood.<p>Instead they came out and said "new Maps is the greatest thing since sliced bread!" (paraphrasing) which was downright wrong and people rightly felt let down.

Ive heading up "Human Interface" now. Say goodbye to the Rich Corinthian Leather on every third App.

Another upside: iOS and OS X are now both run by the same person. Hopefully this means that when there is convergence/overlap between the two platforms, it will be done more thoughtfully, rather than taking something from one and awkwardly bolting it onto the other one a la Launchpad.

At first I was shocked by the headline, but after reading the story, I actually think, this could be amazing.<p>Getting Jony Ive to oversee both industrial and software design, could lead to something very exciting, that provides the innovation, the software, has been lacking.<p>I have full confidence, in Eddy Cue, Craig, and Bob their new roles, and hope this means Bob will stay on longer.<p>As per the direct no apology firing of Browett.. Sweet! I was actually hoping for that. I was insane to gamble with the Apple stores reputation and service for a litle more margin. Having now seen a Dixons, I have no idea, why he was hired

John Browett didn't last long. Jony Ive overseeing UI should be interesting and might bring an end to the skeuomorphism bug at Apple.<p>I wonder how this will affect iOS. Forstall has been in charge from the beginning (afaik) so we might see some big changes and even better integration with OS X now that Craig Federighi is in charge of both teams.<p>Edit:<p>I wonder if Forstall's departure has anything to do with Mansfield staying on?

So... can we now all agree that Tim Cook is a good CEO?

Jony Ive is now responsible for HI guidelines across the company?<p>That could turn out great or horrible. (I'm not sure whether obviously great hardware designers can also be great UI designers.) I'm optimistic for now. Hopefully that means bye bye overt skeumorphism.<p>(I do think Apple's UIs have in the past always been above average, sometimes excellent. Their fashion choices, however, have at times been horrible. It would be great if Apple could change the second, not necessarily the first part.)

Given that 50% of the posts talk about skeuomorphism and honestly I didn't know what it was, here's the definition from Wikipedia: <i>"A skeuomorph, or skeuomorphism is when a product imitates design elements functionally necessary in the original product design, but that becomes ornamental in the new product design"</i>.

Can't wait to read this thread on Quora. <a href="http://www.quora.com/Apple-Inc-2/Why-is-Scott-Forstall-leaving-Apple" rel="nofollow">http://www.quora.com/Apple-Inc-2/Why-is-Scott-Forstall-leavi...</a>

Wow, this is great news all around. Jony Ive can only improve the Human Interfaces we've seen, and although he was obviously good at a lot of things, Forstall did tend to over-promise and under-deliver (Siri, Maps). This makes me feel great about Cook as CEO.

I'm not an Apple insider. Pushing Google Maps away seems to me like a political decision reserved for someone like Cook, not Forstall. If Cook shoved Google out and tasked Forstall with the impossible task of developing a better maps offering in what amounts to a year, this would be a sign that upper management jumped the shark, not Forstall himself.

The writing was on the wall:<p>Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem? <a href="http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/09/29/does-apple-have-a-scott-forstall-problem/" rel="nofollow">http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/09/29/does-apple-have-a-sco...</a><p>Apple Retail Leadership Tells Stores It 'Messed Up' Employee Working Hours, Refutes Layoffs <a href="http://www.nasdaq.com/article/apple-retail-leadership-tells-stores-it-messed-up-employee-working-hours-refutes-layoffs-20120816-00774" rel="nofollow">http://www.nasdaq.com/article/apple-retail-leadership-tells-...</a>

Nobody's posted this yet, so I'll give it a try.<p>Dear Scott,<p>Could you please start up NeXT again? That would really rock.<p>Thanks, Bud

Everyone's mentioning Maps/Siri, but my most recent disappointment with an Apple product is the UI, performance and structure of Game Center for iOS.<p>I've never been inclined to use it before the recent release of Letterpress which necessitates its use and it a steaming pile of you-know-what.<p>It's so jarring going from the lovely minimalism of the Letterpress game into parts of Game Center to manage match/friend requests.<p>It's the sort of experience that's had me worried about Apple, and this is (tentatively) good news, as I gather he was heading up the part of Apple responsible for such products.

I'm actually surprised that they allowed John Browett to receive his first batch of grants before they showed him the door. Didn't seem like he had long after some of his recent communication problems.

Everybody here talks about Ive being opposed to skeuomorphism , does anybody have any examples of what the UI would look like under the leadership of his design principles? I can't even imagine it.

Looks like he got shitcanned for the Maps fiasco.

I'm relieved about this. Pretty much all of the missteps at Apple that I've cared about were related to this guy. I'm confident that Ive will clear things up soon.

Who wants to bet that Marissa called him already? Seems like the perfect fit for the new Yahoo mobile oriented strategy, does it not? I have no clue to be honest.

While mere speculation, I do not think he is leaving over Maps directly. I personally think there was internal tension over making sir Jony head of leadership and direction for Human Interface and he quit over that -- also there is the possibility that he was perhaps looking to run Apple as CEO at some point but that does not seem to be in the cards.

Most interesting part:<p><pre><code> John Browett is leaving Apple </code></pre> So his views on retail really did not fit Apple after all.

I feel very sorry for Apple. Scott was a major catalyst that made things happen at the company.

This makes me incredibly excited for Apple. I would rather that Siri and Maps hadn't belly-flopped the way they did, but iOS is getting really long in the tooth, and Apple have made some seriously weird design decisions with the platform.

Scott Forstall is already rich thanks to Apple, but he lost a lot of money by being fired. 75,000 RSUs vesting in 2013, 100,000 RSUs to vest in 2014, and 75,000 in 2016. That's a lot of dough ($151M at today's share price).

Well, if he truly wants to emulate Jobs he needs to have his wilderness years outside of Apple's bosom. As the prophecy has foretold he'll return in 11 years to retake his spot as rightful CEO.

I think one of the worst examples of UI design by Apple is the iCloud website. It's just so slow and clunky. I can't believe more people aren't complaining about it.

Bold action often results in great things.<p>Apple has always strived to couple great hardware design with great software. Excited to see them bring the two departments closer again.

Interesting to see confirmation of Bob Mansfield's continued role in the company. He'll lead a new group, "Technologies", responsible for wireless and semis.

John Browett is leaving too - that didn't last long.

Lots of supposition and subjectivity.<p>I'm pretty much clueless on this topic, but from a quick scan this seems like pure gossip. I've learned nothing at all except for various HN opinions, and I have trouble understanding if and/or what the substance is here.<p>What am I missing? Put another way. What does anyone on HN actually uniquely know about this situation. Could someone help simplify this?

Looks like Maps fiasco was too much to handle. Didn't they ask their SVP of hardware to leave when they had antennagate?

Wasnt he supposed to be the next Steve Jobs? He was noticeably missing from the last event. It was strange that they didnt have ios updates to talk about (that is when he gets on stage).

Is there a chance that the move away from skeuomorphism and putting OSX and IOS under one umbrella is a response to the direction Microsoft is taking with Windows 8?

I guess this is the serious blow to Apple. Many people across the board will reconsider their position with the shares of APPL. Time to take the profit.

I'm expecting a move away from Skeuomorphism towards minimalism now that Jony Ive is the head of "Human Interface"

Shame. He had great stage presence at the Apple shows.

Is this an instance of Think Different?

I wonder what this means for the possibility of future Apple devices having haptic touchscreens.<p>edit: What was the downvote for?!

Sacked for Apple Maps?

Hooray!

It wasn't always obvious that Cook would be the CEO of Apple after Jobs left. This is the job Forstall wanted, but that Apple didn't want him for. The job went to Cook, and so Forstall was either going to have to find a place to be happy in Apple or he'd be on his way out.<p>This gives a smooth transition to the large teams under him over the next year or so, in exchange for more vesting of his shares.<p>People saying this is about Maps or Siri or Skoumorphism are focusing on relatively petty issues.<p>This is about how is going to be the leader of Apple. Tim Cook turned out to not just be the interim CEO, and waiting a year for the transition is respectful all around-- and is enough time for everyone to know what the right direction for their lives is.<p>Forstall may want to do a startup-- where he'd certainly be a CEO.

I cant wait to hear reactions from the fanboys when Cook is out : "Oh yeah , best opportunity ever for Apple...", Whatever Apple does is ,strangely ,always a good decision from its followers perspective...

man behind skeuomorphism in apple's ios?<p>I remember watching him in a keynote showing the piano app on iphone when they announced appstore/iphone. I was blown away by that demo.. those were the days maan..