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Apple told to rewrite "Samsung didn't copy", post on front page until Dec 14th

308 点作者 cskau超过 12 年前

29 条评论

grellas超过 12 年前
In July, 2012, Samsung had won a judgment in the UK to the effect that its Galaxy Tab computers did not infringe Apple's registered design.<p>In spite of this, Apple continued to assert, broadly and widely, that Samsung's tablet computers <i>did</i> in fact constitute blatant copying of Apple's design and was therefore wrongful.<p>Therefore, Samsung went to the court trying to get an injunction barring Apple from making such claims because the claims were causing commercial harm to Samsung within the UK and thereby were negating the effect of the judgment won by Samsung.<p>Alternatively, Samsung sought a publication order requiring Apple to publicize the fact of the judgment on a long list of Apple websites as well as in certain financial publications. The idea of this order was to clear the confusion created by Apple's continued claims of illegal copying notwithstanding that it had lost on this issue in the UK courts.<p>The judge hearing the follow-up proceeding issued a very thoughtful ruling (found here: <a href="http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Patents/2012/2049.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Patents/2012/2049.html</a>) that in fact <i>denied</i> Samsung's request for an injunction against Apple's being able to claim illegal copying. The judge acknowledged the inherent unfairness of barring a party that had lost in a court proceeding from contesting the ruling and from publicly claiming that the ruling was wrong. It thus agreed with Apple that Apple should <i>not</i> be muzzled in asserting its legal right to speak.<p>The judge then turned to the more limited request made by Samsung for the publication order and described it as follows: "Samsung say that, notwithstanding the fact that Apple have lost this case, they continue to assert that Samsung infringes and that the damage that was caused and has been described there continues to apply. Accordingly, Samsung seek orders that I should require Apple to put on their websites and to put in certain newspapers references to this judgment and a statement that the court has found that the Samsung Galaxy tablets do not infringe." The judge went on to say that he believed "there is a useful purpose <i>in a clear public statement</i> that a product alleged by a rights holder to infringe those rights does not infringe," reasoning that "[t]he more frequently and the more loudly a rights holder has asserted infringement, the more useful it is to have a <i>clear public statement</i> to the contrary."<p>So, the whole point of the order was to ensure that Apple made a <i>clear public statement</i> to the effect that a UK court had ruled that the Galaxy Tab did not infringe Apple's registered design. Nothing in the order prevented Apple from continuing to assert that it was right and that the UK decision was wrong. Apple had full scope to make these assertions as and when it wanted and has obviously been making them freely.<p>At the same time, Apple was required to make the clear public statement called for by the follow-on order. Apple appealed this follow-on order and lost. It therefore had exhausted its remedies within the relevant court system and was left with the requirement that it comply.<p>That is when it purportedly complied by placing a teeny link buried at the bottom of its UK home page that linked to a text that, within the disclosure itself, bombarded the reader with all the reasons why Samsung really did infringe notwithstanding the UK judgment that had been rendered against Apple.<p>A few thoughts:<p>1. This conduct by Apple did not merely violate the "spirit" of the order. It clearly violated the order itself. Where Apple had been ordered to make a clear public statement publicizing the fact of the UK judgment, Apple had in fact offered up an obscure link to a statement full of argumentative statements aimed at creating obvious doubt about the question of non-infringement.<p>2. Apple did this in a context where the order had given it free scope to argue all it liked about its free speech rights to contest the original judgment and to continue claiming infringement on grounds that it disagreed with that judgment. Instead of accepting the order on its terms, Apple went <i>way out of its way</i> to undercut the limited disclosure that it had been required to make.<p>3. Lawyers say, "pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered," meaning that when a litigant gets too greedy, it risks having its legal proceeding go badly wrong. Apple had been given a reasonable accommodation by the court addressing its legitimate concerns but it was not content to settle for that. It wanted to do nothing that might acknowledge that Samsung had legitimate issues as well - issues that had been found valid by a UK court and affirmed on appeal. Therefore, Apple decided to respond in a way it deemed clever, in effect defying the judicial authorities who had ruled against it.<p>4. We can each judge for ourselves whether this was smart or not. My view is that it is conduct unbecoming of lawyers (and of Apple as the principal in the case) and, indeed, is an outrageous affront to judicial authority. Courts and judges are not always right but, when they rule against you and you exhaust your appeals, you had better comply. If you think you are above the law in the sense that you need not comply, you will regret it. Those of us who are mere mortals need to live by these rules. So too does Apple.
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chrisacky超过 12 年前
<p><pre><code> Apple tried to argue that it would take at least 14 days to put a corrective statement on the site – a claim that one judge said he "cannot believe".[1] </code></pre> Clearly the judge hasn't ever submitted an iOS app for review?<p>And to people who don't understand why Apple are held to be in "non-compliance" despite copying verbatim the extract from the judgment: it was because of how "snarky" Apple were.<p>- Saying their device is much more popular.<p>- Signing off by disregarding the purpose of the statement: "Samsung willfully copied Apple's far more popular iPad."<p>- Saying that Samsung's device is "not as cool".<p>- Not using the correct font size. (Although, I don't care about this point)<p>- Dedicating 80%~ of the statement to supporting their claims in other jurisdictions... and brushing past the verbatim copied statement.<p>Apple were ordered to factually represent the judgment in a statement issued on their website. They cherry picked quotes, out of context and attempted to create confusion in any readers, with the intention of misleading them as to the judges present ruling.<p><pre><code> [1] : http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/nov/01/apple-samsung-statement</code></pre>
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nagrom超过 12 年前
A lot of the posts that are saying something like "The judge didn't say that they couldn't do it like this!" are deliberately missing the point. In the UK, you are expected to comply with the spirit of such a court order, not <i>just</i> the letter of it. Try and pay a court fine with bins full of loose change and see what happens.<p>It's entirely possible to be punished for contempt of court to a much greater extent than the lesser offence. Deliberately choosing to behave in a childish manner and annoy a judge is a dangerous game to play and can be self-defeating. Apple's lawyers should have known this and should have advised them against it. It would have cost them nothing to comply with the ruling properly in the first place; they are now cutting their nose off to spite their face.
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bitdiffusion超过 12 年前
This attempt at being "clever" has definitely backfired on apple. If they had just done what was asked the first time, that would have been the end of it. Now it has to be dredged up and people will be reminded (again) that they lost the case. I find it hard to believe that their lawyers advised them that they would get away with something like this.
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denzil_correa超过 12 年前
Judge Robin Jacob's comments on<p>On Apple's legal notice posted<p><pre><code> “I’m at a loss that a company such as Apple would do this,” Judge Robin Jacob said today. “That is a plain breach of the order.” </code></pre> On Technical Difficulties to take 14 days to change the notice<p><pre><code> “I would like to see the head of Apple make an affidavit setting out the technical difficulties which means Apple can’t put this on” their website, Jacob said. “I just can’t believe the instructions you’ve been given. This is Apple. They cannot put something on their website?” </code></pre> <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-01/apple-ordered-to-change-notice-in-u-k-samsung-case.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-01/apple-ordered-to-ch...</a>
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masnick超过 12 年前
Here's what Apple wrote -- somehow I'm guessing this isn't what the court had in mind.<p>From <a href="http://www.apple.com/uk/legal-judgement/" rel="nofollow">http://www.apple.com/uk/legal-judgement/</a>:<p>Samsung / Apple UK judgment<p>On 9th July 2012 the High Court of Justice of England and Wales ruled that Samsung Electronic (UK) Limited’s Galaxy Tablet Computer, namely the Galaxy Tab 10.1, Tab 8.9 and Tab 7.7 do not infringe Apple’s registered design No. 0000181607-0001. A copy of the full judgment of the High court is available on the following link www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Patents/2012/1882.html.<p>In the ruling, the judge made several important points comparing the designs of the Apple and Samsung products:<p>"The extreme simplicity of the Apple design is striking. Overall it has undecorated flat surfaces with a plate of glass on the front all the way out to a very thin rim and a blank back. There is a crisp edge around the rim and a combination of curves, both at the corners and the sides. The design looks like an object the informed user would want to pick up and hold. It is an understated, smooth and simple product. It is a cool design."<p>"The informed user's overall impression of each of the Samsung Galaxy Tablets is the following. From the front they belong to the family which includes the Apple design; but the Samsung products are very thin, almost insubstantial members of that family with unusual details on the back. They do not have the same understated and extreme simplicity which is possessed by the Apple design. They are not as cool."<p>That Judgment has effect throughout the European Union and was upheld by the Court of Appeal on 18 October 2012. A copy of the Court of Appeal’s judgment is available on the following link www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2012/1339.html. There is no injunction in respect of the registered design in force anywhere in Europe.<p>However, in a case tried in Germany regarding the same patent, the court found that Samsung engaged in unfair competition by copying the iPad design. A U.S. jury also found Samsung guilty of infringing on Apple's design and utility patents, awarding over one billion U.S. dollars in damages to Apple Inc. So while the U.K. court did not find Samsung guilty of infringement, other courts have recognized that in the course of creating its Galaxy tablet, Samsung willfully copied Apple's far more popular iPad.
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StavrosK超过 12 年前
Here's the original page:<p><a href="http://www.apple.com/uk/legal-judgement/" rel="nofollow">http://www.apple.com/uk/legal-judgement/</a><p>It's basically "The UK court found Samsung non infringing, but said our products are great, and other courts found them infringing.". Far from an apology.
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codeulike超过 12 年前
Its important to understand that they weren't asked to publish an 'apology' or state any beliefs. They were asked to publish a specifically worded statement of fact about the outcome of the case.<p>What they were asked to publish is roughly the first and fifth paragraphs of what they actually published. They added four other paragraphs.<p>Points 87 and 88 of the appeal judgement here say what they should have published:<p><a href="http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2012/1339.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2012/1339.html</a><p>Which is:<p><i>On 9th July 2012 the High Court of Justice of England and Wales ruled that Samsung Electronic (UK) Limited's Galaxy Tablet Computers, namely the Galaxy Tab 10.1, Tab 8.9 and Tab 7.7 do not infringe Apple's registered design No. 0000181607-0001. A copy of the full judgment of the High court is available on the following link [link given].<p>That Judgment has effect throughout the European Union and was upheld by the Court of Appeal on (date). A copy of the Court of Appeal's judgment is available on the following link [link given]. There is no injunction in respect of the registered design in force anywhere in Europe.</i><p>Contrast with what they actually published: <a href="http://www.apple.com/uk/legal-judgement/" rel="nofollow">http://www.apple.com/uk/legal-judgement/</a>
benologist超过 12 年前
AOL "journalist" told to reword "The Guardian's article":<p><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/nov/01/apple-samsung-statement" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/nov/01/apple-samsu...</a>
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duiker101超过 12 年前
Act like a 6 year old and you will be treated like one from someone with a little brain. Don't take the judge for a stupid. You'll regret it.
bstar77超过 12 年前
Did the court seriously think ANY COMPANY would have reacted differently than Apple did? This is a childish and completely unproductive order. Fine Apple and be over with it if you think they did something wrong.
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kybernetikos超过 12 年前
Did you notice that the css class that controls the link size on the uk home page is called 'sosumi'?
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DanBC超过 12 年前
Apple needs to be a bit careful.<p>Patent claims are civil, and have fines or other gentle punishments attached.<p>Contempt of court is criminal, and people do get sent to jail for it.
js2超过 12 年前
The engadget link adds nothing to the original reporting - <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/nov/01/apple-samsung-statement" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/nov/01/apple-samsu...</a>
ortusdux超过 12 年前
My first thought when I read the Samsung letter:<p><a href="http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/sneaky-restaurant-fail.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/sneaky-restauran...</a>
pfortuny超过 12 年前
To those saying that Apple "complied"... Do you think Apple would have complied if the text were in #FEFEFE over #FFFFFF in a page including, say "buy iPhone and be happy!" in clear #000000 and a Photo of Steve?<p>It would be literally complying: The text would be there to be read, anyway.
macmac超过 12 年前
“I’m at a loss that a company such as Apple would do this,” Judge Robin Jacob said today. “That is a plain breach of the order.”
confluence超过 12 年前
It's not like it even matters. Apple is dead, and these are just their final gasps of air.<p>Apple is pulling the Edison maneuver to protect their rapidly dwindling monopoly on mobile consumer hardware - and they will lose because Tesla (aka Android) is better for both the industry and consumers.<p>Android is open, Android is iOS equivalent, Android is cheap, Android is backed by the rest of the world's electronic mobile manufacturers. Apple can't win - the world is now chasing their profits with ravenous rage and hundreds of billions of dollars in invested capital. They will be commoditized because all they sell, and all they have ever sold, was glass with a grey backs. The only thing that protected Apple - really protected them was iOS. Those apps made Apple. And the openness of Android will commoditize them.<p>Apple can shock elephants (ban tablets) and write false accusations about the merits of AC (Samsung sucks) all they want - it doesn't change the fact that their monopoly in mobile hardware is in a terminal and rapid death spiral.<p>Samsung made Apple. And Samsung will destroy them for the fundamental reason that style can and will be copied vociferously for the betterment of the consumer, but the substance behind it cannot.<p>Glass with grey backs are commodity. Market saturation is imminent. Competitive equivalence has occured.
mokash超过 12 年前
I saw this coming. Their 'apology' was just another thinly veiled stab at Samsung. They're simply coming off as childish and immature now. They're not exactly getting into the good-books of that judge which would have worked in their favour if they ever encountered him again which judging by their history and mantra of 'sue everything' is highly likely.
spullara超过 12 年前
Kind of ridiculous. Samsung obviously did copy, the court just ruled that it didn't merit an infringement ruling. I mean, does anyone think, really, that Samsung didn't set out to copy all of Apple's products? Wouldn't it be better for all (except Apple) if it was spelled out that Samsung copied them but it is ok?
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michaelfeathers超过 12 年前
The article said that the judge ordered Apple to say that "Samsung did not copy their design." Apple, essentially, said that <i>the court ruled</i> that Samsung did not copy its design.<p>That is factually correct. I don't see how anyone can be compelled to make the former statement rather than the latter one.
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michaelfeathers超过 12 年前
Do US Courts ever make judgements like this? It's akin to compelling speech.
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levesque超过 12 年前
This is silly.
clarky07超过 12 年前
This seems like BS to me. They put the judgement on their site, and then they put other things on THEIR site. As long as the put the piece they wanted them to put, they should be able to do anything else they want. If they think the statements made make for good marketing pieces, why shouldn't they be able to put them on their website.<p>All this is besides the point that the UK is in the minority in their ruling, and the US case did a pretty good job of showing that Samsung did in fact copy Apple, and said so many times in internal communications.
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stock_toaster超过 12 年前
Ugh. Apple stories really bring out the worst in HackerNews.<p><i>makes a note to avoid reading such threads in the future</i>
drizzo4shizzo超过 12 年前
They'll probably put Ironic Hipster quotes around "copy"
jusben1369超过 12 年前
People. Top post? For hours? 165 comments and counting? For a legal spat in the UK? For every post that claims the top spot there's one that fails to get noticed.<p>These articles are our "Brad and Angelina" equivalents.
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coob超过 12 年前
How is it non-compliant? It uses the exact wording in the judgment, which did not state that there could not be additions.
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metatronscube超过 12 年前
The UK legal system is a complete joke. Apple should consider using its considerable resources to take legal action with this demand and simply post " X is not as cool as Y" and leave it at that. I can not fathom why this has been pulled up, and would challenge the appeals court to explain why the original passage is non-compliant and if they cant give a reasonable answer I would be meeting them in court.
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