Apple - Think Twice

My perspective here is in no way Apple-specific, but I was reminded of something quite interesting in this story: if you pass a test and you still have problems, it probably means the test isn't good enough.<p>Worse, passing a test doesn't magically change the state of the world and make these problems disappear. Turning to the customer and explaining, "there is no problem because you passed the test" does not alter the customer's experience at all: the ghosting still exists.<p>This has nothing to do with whether or not Apple was smart to behave this way, or what the tolerances should be - I don't have a dog in this fight. Instead, I just wanted to highlight something I have to be reminded of from time to time, in different contexts: no one cares whether you think their problem is real, they care whether the problem still exists for them.<p>Obvious point: This goes for more than just computer products.

Revision A Apple projects have had issues for as long as Apple has been making products.<p>Second gen Macbook Air's had Logic board issues, 2007 era RevA Macbook Pros had video card issues, dodgy graphics cards on the early Mac Pros, the iPhone4 antenna, the list is endless. Often it's taken years for the issues to be resolved and Apple to pay for repairs, if at all.<p>It's simple, if you want the shiniest tech, buy whatever Apple is selling today. If you want reliable hardware, wait for the first revision when the kinks have been worked out. That way we don't all get spammed with the histronics of endless bloggers who think this is a new phenomenon.

I wouldn't buy another Apple product either. Between a MacBook Pro which caught fire, an AirPort which melted, an iMac which the backlight went on and a MacBook which had to go back 4 times (!) due to logic board problems, it scares the shit out of me parting with that sort of cash and actually depending on it. The muppets at the "genius bar" (retard shelf as we call it now) aren't exactly helpful and usher you away so other people don't hear about it as well.<p>I now buy OLD Lenovo machines (T61 series) and chuck Debian on them. I buy two at a time and stick a (Samsung) SSD in them for less than half the cost of an MBP. One lives in the cupboard as a backup. I have a few spare batteries (9-cell and Ultrabay) sitting around as well.<p>Also, I find it objectionable purchasing anything that doesn't have a way of isolating the power either i.e. removing the battery. One short on a LiPoly pack and your tech gadget turns neatly into an incendiary device, which is what happened to my 2010 MBP. It nearly burned my house down.<p>I genuinely don't get all these people who think they are soundly engineered. They are expensive trinkets with no engineering applied past appearance.

I can't help but think that the majority of comments here are the loud minority. Apple's products have had faults, I'll be the first to admit. But do we really think that even 5% of Apple's millions of customers are having issues with their purchases? If that were the case, we'd see class action lawsuits against the company, the NYTimes/WSJ covering Apple's shoddy manufacturing processes, and Apple's reputation taking an enormous hit. I've seen none of the above. To the contrary, articles covering Apple's manufacturing process, while critical of labor, seem to show a very well-managed ship, with little tolerance for errors or defects.<p>I'm also taken aback by the harsh tone of the comments:<p>"Ahh yes the unibody which is basically a fucking big short circuit, hence why mine caught fire."<p>"Fuck everything about this."<p>"it scares the shit out of me parting with that sort of cash and actually depending on it"<p>It's a little disappointing to see these hyperbolic comments on a site I normally associate with an educated, smart, logically-thinking group of people.

Interesting. I've had the exact same problem, and yet what happened to me was the best customer service I've ever experienced.<p>I had bought a 15" retina MBP at launch, but only noticed the ghosting last month. After booking an appointment with a 'genius' online I arrived ready to argue my case. What actually happened was that the 'genius' agreed with me straight away that the ghosting was intolerable, and without doing any testing besides what I'd shown him recommended that they replace the screen. I left my MBP at the Apple Store and 3 hours later received a phone call to say that the repair had been completed and my machine was ready for collection.<p>I don't think there's another computer supplier that:-<p>A. I could book an appointment online to get my laptop looked at the same day.<p>B. Actually has a local store with support staff.<p>C. Could carry out the repair at said store, the very same day.

Fuck everything about this. I had two screen replaced, luckily before Apple came up with this idiotic test. On the second replacement I lucked out and got a Samsung screen that doesn’t have the issue. But that they still have not solved that problem that is plain as day fucking sucks! What is wrong with those idiots?! Why do they do stuff like that? It makes my blood boil.<p>Apple, fuck you! Why do you do this to your customers? Why do you torture them like that? Still!<p>I really believed that by now you would have solved that problem. After I got my Samsung screen I honestly stopped reading the forums because it brought down my mood. To know hear – months later – that they still haven’t solved the issue in any real way makes me just angry and sad.<p>This is not excusable. Excuses about this being a first gen product are obviously not valid. If you can’t sell it in a satisfactory manner, you have to give your customers their money back (or give them Samsung screen which are, unlike LG screens, not affected by the issue).

Had this happen to my Retina MacBook Pro too. Went to the Apple store and after some pleading was able to get them to place an order for a new one. Two weeks of glazing over staring at ghosts later I go to pick it up. They upgraded the replacement to the largest size SSD for free! It was all down hill after that.<p>I had to transfer my data from the lemon. The Geniuses on staff were clearly unfamiliar with some of the quirks of Migration Assistant. I offered to do the migration myself if they gave me a Thunderbolt cable. That ends up forcing me to spend another hour in the store, which of course I use to check for signs of ghosting on the new machine.<p>I run the following command:<p><pre><code> ioreg -lw0 | grep \"EDID\" | sed "/[^&#60;]*&#60;/s///" | xxd -p -r | strings -6 </code></pre> Like the lemon, the new one is an LG panel as well. Word on the forums is that only the LG panels have the ghosting issue. I ask the Genius if I can swap once more before leaving the store. He says no. I head home anxiously, hoping my screen is pure.<p>Nope. While it is still one of the best computers I have ever used, it is just unacceptable to be gambling $4000 for hardware I rely on. I will be trying for another exchange soon because there is really no other option, but the standards for "it just works" have noticeably slipped across the company.

Antenna causing problems? "You're holding it wrong."<p>Camera artifacts? "You're holding it wrong." [1]<p>Burn-in? "Does not compute."<p>Scruffing on the iPhone 5 [2]? People don't even bother to write about it. Same for the poor performance on Retina devices. Unless you're someone like Anandtech who are so meticulous many don't bother to read the fint print.<p>Maybe it's time we got some Apple-specific buyer's guides from people who don't grade on a curve. I still want to buy Apple products (not first-edition versions, though), but I want to know what I'm in for.<p>[1]: <a href="http://gizmodo.com/5947972/apple-acknowledges-iphone-5-camera-problem-says-youre-holding-it-wrong" rel="nofollow">http://gizmodo.com/5947972/apple-acknowledges-iphone-5-camer...</a><p>[2]: <a href="http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2012/10/17/hon-hais-explanation-for-iphone-5-shortage/" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2012/10/17/hon-hais-explanation-...</a>

&#62; As a loyal customer of apple for almost 11 years (iMac G4) my loyalty has been shaken.<p>I really hate bloggers that do shit like this. Apple isn't an airline so bringing up your Apple mileage isn't helping. Really, 11 years and this one problem shakes your loyalty? Not their DRM, custom screws, custom cables, EOLing still powerful Macbooks, making free services paid (iTools), or the $1000 price bump when they introduced the G5 towers.<p>I've been an Apple user for years (20+) and I have no loyalty to them whatsoever. Their products work for me and as long as they continue to work I'll continue to buy them. Also, a real Apple user would know to never buy a new version of their products. v1 is usually full of design and technical flaws. And each genius is different, keep asking or try another store until you get the satisfaction you demand. Apple Geniuses are given a surprising amount of latitude (more than most tech retail) so if you can convince just one it's a problem than for Apple it's a problem.

I had a similar dance with Apple tech staff. I took in a 27" iMac which had a faulty video card fan which made a horrible high pitched whine at low brightness settings.<p>First visit they couldn't hear it (in loud store environment..), I was sent home. Second visit they agreed to take it in for testing - returned with a chipped display, scratched glass and a report that the problem didn't exist.<p>Finally gave up with them and called Apple USA direct (from UK), complained to anyone who would listen. Was advised to take into a 3rd party repair supplier to confirm the problem existed. I went in with an audio spectrometer to visualise the problem, had a new iMac shipped the next day.<p>It's hard to accept that they're no longer the specialist hardware supplier who treats every customer exceptionally well. Now we're just being farmed like any customer.<p>Going hackintosh/linux for all future machines.

Apple haters have really come out of the woodwork today.<p>The fact of the matter is that <i>every</i> first-gen product has had and will have issues regardless of the manufacturer. Apple just gets a lot of flak because they manufacture some of the best products out there and are very vocal about it. So the moment they make a slip, they get stoned by haters who were waiting in ambush.<p>I, too, have had some bad experiences with a few Apple products I've owned. My first iPad had two dead pixels, and my first MBA had a keyboard key not work intermittently. The staff at the Apple Store next to my campus were absolute retards about both issues. Instead of writing an angry blog post about it, you know what I did? I took my defective items to another Apple store, where they got fixed/replaced immediately.<p>Then again, I'm a practical person and am generally more interested in getting shit done. I understand some people are more interested in raising a ruckus for attention.

I thought Apple got this concept but PR is more than just spinning half-truths on TV to make the company look good. The highest calling of PR is the ability to say "it will cost more than we made selling this thing to fix it, but we need to do it anyway."<p>Companies that care about their reputations have guys like that head their PR departments and listen to them when they say this.<p>Frankly, you expect this kind of behavior from companies that are costing on autopilot with no one willing to take responsibility for anything at the helm. It is surprising to see it from Apple.

I have a Retina MacBook Pro with the same issue. It has really soured me to Macs (which I've used literally all my life). You know if this has happened to one of their more high-profile products (one that begins with an "i" and fits in your hand), it wouldn't fly. But Apple haven't had much pride in their Macs for years now, and have let really bad design flaws like this go unfixed.

My wife and I both own retina Macbook Pros and, luck would have it, I got one with a Samsung display and she got one with an LG display which exhibits the ghosting issue. She had mentioned it to me in passing before, but after reading this post I talked to her about it again and low and behold, the ghosting effect was very visible in her open Emacs buffers!<p>So, irrationally empowered with the spirit of a wronged consumer thanks to this post, I immediately called Apple up and told them the issue.<p>They're sending a box in the mail next day for us to send the laptop in for a screen replacement, free of charge of course because it's under warranty.<p>All in all, it was a pretty painless customer service experience. I think it took all of five minutes, no exaggeration. There weren't really any questions asked, aside from "Where do you want us to send the box?". We've already ordered a temporary replacement computer for her while it's out for repair so she won't miss out on any work.

I bought the Macbook Pro retina back over the summer and was a little upset when a small dead pixel cluster appeared on the display after about a month of use.<p>I brought it back to the apple store (i did not purchase applecare). I was told that this was happening in about 1 our of every 40 MBP retinas and they happily replaced the display in less than 24 hours.<p>I'm not implying that my situation is "unique/new/ particularly note-worthy" but it is just as antidotal as yours and ended with a positive outcome.

I was an Apple certified repair technician for three years until 2010 and the ghosting issue is very real, I saw it on several displays. The best thing is to just keep calling them/going to an Apple store until they fix it for free. I agree that their customer service could use some work in this department.

My four-month-old rMBP's screen failed last week and now I'm staring at replacing it out-of-pocket, or never using it as a portable machine again and leaving it hooked up to an external monitor. I'm so unhappy with Apple right now.<p>EDIT: I couldn't find the default warranty (sans AppleCare) and based this comment off of other similar situations (including OP). I found out this morning that it IS COVERED by the default warranty, so I'm not unhappy anymore. This is my bad.

I have the same issue on my rMBP, and while I wish it didn't happen, I still quite like the laptop. It's not a constant thing and it hasn't interfered at all with my ability to see what's supposed to be on the screen.

As this article pertains to screen issues how about we discuss this a little bit rather than engaging in senseless rants?<p>The "ghosting" issue the article highlights is a known problem with certain types of LCD screens. With a caveat I'll say that LG LCD panels are known for these kinds of issues much more so than Samsung's. The caveat is that ALL OEM LCD manufacturers have issues, all of them.<p>The other very important idea to understand is that Apple is just another OEM customer. Yes, they are huge. And, yes, they get stuff made to their specs. But, no, they can't alter the laws of physics or magically change the current state of the art. The same is true of the warts and issues in the various technologies they use.<p>For example, someone mentioned Apple notebooks flaming. Well, I fly radio controlled planes and helicopters. They use LiPo battery packs. And you can bet they are stored in a metal container within fireproof bags and away from combustibles. Yes, LiPo battery cells can self-combust. This is not a secret. This is one reason I don't own any laptops with non-removable LiPo packs.<p>How common are LiPo fires? How easy are they to start?<p>They are very rare. If you go on YouTube you'd think that every other home is going up in flames due to LiPo fires. Not so. I actually blew-up a LiPo pack on purpose just to see what it would take and how big the fire might be. It actually took a lot for this three cell pack to go.<p>Is Apple at fault for adopting a technology that has a minuscule probability of causing a fire? I'll leave that for someone else to answer. I am not really bothered by it. That said, I made my informed choice and simply don't buy laptops with non-removable LiPo packs.<p>Back to displays.<p>LG can have ghosting or image retention problems. Fire-up photoshop and make a pattern of black and white lines one pixel wide. Try horizontal and vertical arrangements. Try flashing that pattern on an off at different rates. This can trigger the issue depending on the underlying LCD technology. Are these tests fair? Not sure.<p>Also, keep in mind that the test Apple is administering might come from the OEM panel manufacturer. In other words, this is what the manufacturer agreed to deliver to Apple as a performance guarantee.<p>LG also has had some serious display discoloration issues. The early 23 inch aluminum Cinema display had a batch of horribly pink/magenta panels. Again, LG quality control problems.<p>Samsung has had discoloration problems but they tend to be pretty good about image retention issues.<p>An interesting fact is that an LCD pixel is able to retain a "charge" --if you will-- for a very long time. I've seen an LCD panel hold a full-color image for over a day after power was removed. This panel had been modified for this particular experiment in that all drive electronics were removed very quickly after power was removed. In other words, it was just a piece of "glass" sitting in front of a separately-powered light source. Very interesting stuff.<p>I am not making excuses for Apple. If you pay that much for a laptop you want it to be perfect. I get it. I also get that it just won't happen. Too many moving parts.<p>Here's a reality of consumer product engineering today:<p>Companies (not just Apple, everyone) have to move very quickly. Nobody is going to have the time to test all corner cases for every component they use. Even if they did, they can't account for all corner cases. And, if you run a supply and manufacturing pipeline like Apple's, by the time the components arrive at the factory there's almost nothing you can do about it. So, yes, 100K "defective" displays might go out the door in the blink of an eye. And, another 100K might go out before you can even start to do anything about it. Component suppliers can shaft you and, frankly, the Korean LCD manufacturers are famous for this. Just talk to anyone in the OEM display business, it's brutal.<p>Given that, I can only imagine that at some level it becomes a carefully considered financial decision. I hate to say it, but it isn't any different from a car manufacturer discovering that 0.01% of break pedals might be defective. They probably have a meeting with the lawyers and the accountants, review their insurance and determine what course of action to take. Sometimes that's the reality of business.<p>I am not saying that this is what Apple is doing. I am just speaking in terms of general scenarios. I would suggest that when dealing with a large organization like Apple patience and persistence is the key. Keep at it. I think Apple, of all companies, still cares a lot. It might be harder today due to the sheer scale of the company, but if you don't loose faith you might just get to the right person and have your problem handled.

Apple seems to have pulled back on the whole positive customer experience in store this year, I've had issues with marking below the display surface and they instantly said "not a defect, £350 please", except it looks like the tolerance on my Air is off. It's a shame, they're starting to reduce customer satisfaction in maximisation of profits, rather than increasing profits through customer satisfaction.

I have the Macbook Pro that keeps making a constant white noise right after the machine boots up. The sound is loud enough when I am by myself that it totally distracts me. I have had 3 mac laptops before and this is the loudest one by bar. After I compared my machine with a close friend who has an exact machine (same late October last year generation), I realized that the machine had some issues.<p>I took it to the apple store. They said they tested it and could not "hear" the noise. So they wouldn't do anything about it. Yet when I put my macbook pro next to any laptop, everyone can tell my laptop is the loudest.<p>I have become one of their disappointed customers.

When I went to have it looked at, the Apple store employee was fairly sympathetic even though it failed the test (he told me that people do fail it, but that more often than not it's just below the threshold). He told me to keep trying the test at the store until it fails. Whether other Apple store employees will be as sympathetic, I don't know.<p>Is corporate trying to sweep it under the rug? Maybe. But this is a costly repair for a part that is in incredibly high demand. It's not right and I'm frustrated about it, but I'm not surprised.

Really, I've found the case to be just the opposite. I have a friend who had a 15" MBP, prob circa 2009. He kept complaining that a pixel would be missing on the screen on occassion. He tried to point it out to me, but it's something I never noticed. He took it to the Apple store multiple times, and they said they fixed it, but nothing was ever changed according to him. Finally, when he took it back one final time, they just replaced it with the newest 15" MBP available at the time. I was a bit surprised.

This is very problematic and disconcerting. However, I feel like the true reason that this gentleman is upset that he was disillusioned after his pristine opinion of Apple was ruined. That Apple would "take care" of him. This is not the case.<p>Apple doesn't give the most perfunctory shit about you or your problems. The Genius Bar exists to serve purposes: to attract possible customers and to pacify people with broken products. They don't care about you personally. They do not care about your screen. They're a corporation and they care exclusively about money. They pursue this desire through standardization and implementation of bureaucracy.<p>It sounded like the guy did the requisite test and in doing so upheld their obligation. Evidently, the test wasn't sufficient. That sucks, but Apple is not obligated to, nor are they willing to give to you, the benefit of the doubt.<p>I'm sorry that you had to go through such an absurd tribulation, but Apple did not attempt to personally screw you.<p>Apple is unequivocally in the wrong here, but butting such prodigious trust in a huge corporation makes you predisposed to come out of stuff like this inordinately contemptuous.

I used to work in AppleCare and would advise OP to simply try again with a different genius/agent. Apple will set some guidelines but ultimately it was up to the agent's discretion. I was there for antenna-gate and almost always tried to make the customer satisfied- although I would have to run through the tests to protect myself.<p>Its a bureaucracy like anything else, some are more susceptible to empathy.

I had the same problem with a rMBP. Apple replaced mine at the Apple Store even though I couldn't show them the problem while I was there. They even gave me the extra charging brick that came in the new machine's box.<p>I have a friend with a base model rMBP who took it into the Apple Store, and they replaced his with the maxed out model because that's the only configuration they had left in stock.

"The second mouse gets the cheese." - Since my iBook died multiple deaths via its BPGA socket, I've learned to buy rev. 2 or rev. 3 products for all my Apple purchases, when possible. It's consistent with my experience in avoiding x.0 software releases. It's really cool when a company treads new ground, but if you need reliability, it's best to let others test the first round.

While I totally agree that Apple is handling this situation poorly, I'm even more worried about the lack of competition. Which of Apple's competitors offers better service? I can't think of one. Lenovo, HP, Dell? While I'd love Apple to be more generous, in a similar situation, in my experience, you're more likely to get left out to dry with any of their competitors.

I think there is two problems with Apple in this case.<p>1. The Services Level shown is subpar compared to what it is in US. Most of the time we see good services, free exchanges and repaired are actually stories in US. Outside US customers are treated like a second class citizen.<p>2. The guy bought AppleCare for Christ Sake. Why not just replace it when it is a known issues with LG display type.

I think this has been The Apple Product Cycle for ages.<p>1) Random problem appears on 1st iteration product 2) Some are lucky and get it repaired, some are not. 3) Lots of petitions and screaming in forums 4) Apple silently changes their policy and gives some kind of extended warranty or replacement (optional)<p>It's absolutely something Apple should improve, but it's certainly not new.

Are there historical contexts for comparing 1) the failure rate of Apple laptops, particularly first gen and 2) the response to these hardware failures?<p>I'm curious if this is something more widespread or if the author got unlucky and has simply suffered for the first time what many others have suffered previously.

So you're front page Hacker News. Why not put together a poll of people with similar issues and file a joint complaint? You purchased an expensive machine, I'd imagine anyone similarly experiencing the issue would be willing to put in some effort to get a bit more attention drawn to it.

My coworker's display retina has the same ghosting problem and it looks pretty bad. I know I would be very annoyed if mine had ghosting. I would love to use a non-mac version of a laptop with a 2560px+ display, but I'm not aware if one exists.

How are you performing this test? Are you creating an application with a plain grey window and running it?<p>I think this could be an OS issue/graphics driver issue. I sometimes notice things "behind" my dark grey Xcode editor window - like for example, I can see this website in Safari behind Xcode. However, sometimes, I see stuff that isn't directly behind Xcode - but it is in another Space.<p>If the hardware test is succeeding, and you are only seeing "ghosting" on particularly colored windows, I think it is safe to say it may not be the display. (It still may be the display. I'm just saying there are more variables here, and I don't have all of your information.)

The moral of the story? Hope that your Apple computer ships with Samsung components so you get a better display and a faster SSD.

It's not just Apple. It's all companies. When was the last time you tried to repair your washing machine under the warranty? Good luck.<p>And it's software too. I can't remember the last time I installed a piece of software that wasn't filled with bugs. Some of them just glaring. Companies mantra, "Oh we'll fix that in an update". Six months down the road. Meanwhile they already have my money. This especially true with games.<p>It's the way we do business now. "Sell now! Report earnings now!" And worry about the rest later.<p>I mean who cares if out of 25 million customers 15,000 have bad monitors. Just make sure none of them write for the New York Times. :)

If my history with Apple support is any guide, good luck. My first Macbook Pro:<p>- Laptop starts dying hard with &#62;20% battery remaining 16 weeks or so after purchase<p>- Get a replacement battery free due to recall - Replacement battery has same problem, turns out the replacement batteries have also been recalled! Lucky me.<p>- Get a third replacement battery<p>- Third replacement battery has the exact same problem. Contact Apple for warranty replacement.<p>- Apple's classy solution: tough shit. All the replacement batteries only have a 90-day warranty. This of course is a replacement for a battery which has a problem where failure occurs around 120 days.

I use Apple products everywhere, partially because of the awesome retail and support experience -- in-person and by phone. If they screw that up, they will lose a big part of their "special-ness".<p>It is so great to walk into an apple store when you have an issue and have someone who actually cares take a look and try to help you. And when you call them for order or tech support, you get someone clearly intelligent, caring, and who speaks English well.<p>Where else can you get that great service and retail experience? Does a MSFT store do this?

Apple Bug #314159 - Display exhibits objectionable retina-like characteristics<p>Steps to reproduce:<p>1. Stare at bright checkerboard pattern on screen for 1 minute without blinking.<p>2. Quickly look away at blank white wall.<p>3. Observe persistence of image.

I returned 2 15" Retina MBPs in 3 weeks. First had dead pixels, second had a very squeaky spacebar, and now this third machine has the same ghosting effect you've mentioned.<p>It's really not that much of an annoyance because it goes away quickly, but you do think they would have corrected it.<p>To protect my MBP, I rock this classic black briefcase, which fits the laptop and cables perfectly: <a href="http://refer.ly/agTA" rel="nofollow">http://refer.ly/agTA</a>

See, this is exactly why I'd like a service to make feature requests (or slightly negative complaints), in order to rally a critical mass around it. This is not just a shameless plug for the app I just posted to HN (pvshapp.com), though I know it seems that way. I really think you've demonstrated perfectly why there needs to be a standardized platform for consumer product requests--as unlikely as improvements seem.<p>What you've just done with this post is build 334 affirmations of a change that Apple needs to hear and make. Perhaps it's deeper, more pervasive than a single feature request, but it still highlights a dimension of the company Apple needs to pay attention to. It may seem futile, and it may seem like hundreds of these requests have been made directly through Apple's customer support website, but the fact is that it's not powerful persuasion unless you have public support. That's why PvshApp has 2 objectives: 1) Make it as easy as a Tweet to create a request, and 2) add a public audience to actualize support if there is any.<p>For Apple, the value of this input is that they can condense customer feedback into one single request that they can focus on (if they so desire) OR here's a dumb idea: If Apple doesn't want to implement the feature, then who's stopping a third party producer from adding the feature? Seriously, it may seem like an IP nightmare at first, and I'm certainly no expert, but if a 3rd-party producer actually wanted to purchase the Apple products at full price, then augment them and sell the added features for a premium, who's to stop them? (This is a question, I'd love to know the answer!) Maybe Apple casts too large of a legal shadow, but I'm sure there are all sorts of other products for which users would be willing to pay a premium for augmented features.

Without a doubt it's true that Apple's support services fail on many levels. When corporations lose sight of innovation and mainly focus energy on profits these things are inevitable. I've dealt with many such issues and can relate to the frustrations you have experienced. I personally try and solve every such problem myself; an absolute last resort would be having to get 'help' from someone else before expiring all other possibilities.<p>As far as your screen issues are concerned, It's quite common – and not specific to your particular display. I have a Cinema Display which does the exact same thing, and I've basically become immune to really noticing it much anymore. When I first became aware of it I tried just about everything to resolve the 'problem'. I was able to find a way to clear ghosting almost completely, and it's as simple as running a particular screensaver for the extended periods of time you're not using your system. The name of it is "LCD Scrub", and although I was skeptical it really does work. It doesn't get rid of the ghosting instantly, so you have to leave it running quite a while before you see any results. Good luck!

I had the exact same issue ("ghosting"), found it was an LG screen (which are known to have this issue), went to the Apple Store, and got it replaced under the guarantee. Just had to show the issue once, no further questions asked. Got it back with new screen after 3 days.<p>This was in Switzerland. Would be surprised, though, if they had such drastically different replacement or repair policies for such an obvious issue.

I hope this goes viral. Apple was starting to actually gain a little bit of market share in the home computer space and IMO support was a big reason. I know I can have a better spec for less money but I felt like more effort and care was put into Apple products. No one is going to be interested in paying the "Apple tax" if you get the same shitty support you get from most PC makers.

I had a different experience with apple. my 27" imac screen had some strong ghosting and i got it replaced near the end of the 3 years of apple care. i did this without ever visiting an apple store.<p>when i first phoned them, i had some low quality photos of the screen and the guy said he wasn't sure if it was really a problem. i didn't want to take a 27" imac to a store b/c i have no car and apple wouldn't send me a box. so he gave me his email address and said i could contact him any time in the future with better photos.<p>months later i got a new ios device with a better camera, took a larger number of pictures, emailed him the link, and he sent an on-site repair guy to give me a new screen. no problem.<p>i think it depends on which customer service people you talk to. some are great, some are not so good.<p>(the on site repair guy was great too, btw. he gave me a lesson on how to open up imacs, change stuff, and put them back together)

I'm typing this on my second Macbook Pro retina screen (bought mine day of release). I've been through this "test" before. Both times I didn't have an issue demonstrating it. I'm not overly pleased that the retina displays apparently have an "acceptable" ghosting rate, my experiences haven't been as bad as this bloggers.<p>Just to contrast the problems. That said, I agree the test is crap, the first time I tested it with a genius the test was rather vague as to what they were supposed to do. That and to be honest the JJ Abrams Star Trek lighting in the apple store didn't help when looking for ghosting in the store.<p>All in all, its not much different from most of Apples first gen "revolutionary" products. This being the first real "retina" 15" display likely means teething issues. That said, no i'm not excited about being a beta tester. But whatever, the machine has made me despise low dpi screens.

I've bought a MBP every year for 6 years. I spend so much time on them that it's absolutely worth it to get increased performance and space. My current rMBP has 16GB RAM and 512 GB SSD -- more than enough.<p>But I'll get the next rMBP for one reason: improved graphics performance. At the 1920x1200 resolution, even things as mundane as scrolling webpages is pretty low-FPS. Also, Google Chrome's aggressive GPU use seemed to be locking the whole OS about once a day, forcing a hard reboot.<p>Aside from the locking, which now seems to have been resolved with 10.8.2 12C60, I'd say it's been worth it to have phenomenal screen resolution over my previous MBP. Nearly two whole browser windows side-by-side is terrific. I've seen mild ghosting, but I wouldn't say it's affected my day to day operation.

They're all about earning money by ANY unethical means possible. We should already boycott it for not only suing big companies for ridiculous patents, but for trying to EXTORT money from small coffee shops and online grocery shops who have nothing to do with electronics business!

Isn't the fundamental problem here about communicating a product's quality guarantee to potential buyers? Apple never guarantees that you won't have a problem that annoys you or interrupts your work. Is there a detailed warranty for the computer that makes Apple liable to fix this specific problem? OP's problem obviously looks very real and quite annoying, but why should OP claim that Apple is <i>obligated</i> fix it? What if the problem was "the fan is too loud" or "I don't like the keyboard," or something more obviously frivolous like "I hate the OS X window manager" or "my PC games won't run on it"? Obviously, Apple won't fix those if the fan is working at normal volumes and the keyboard is completely within their specs.

Two examples of bad service I've had from Apple recently:<p>a) ordered an iPod nano. Apple missed the delivery date by nearly a week, because they had outsourced the delivery to some unreliable company in Glasgow. I had left the country by the time it arrived.<p>b) I want to purchase a new 21.5" iMac. Store here in Zurich doesn't know when they'll have stock and suggest I phone each day. I said if I order online could I deliver it to the store. No was the answer. Then I said I would miss the delivery as I work - so asked which courier would be used and would I be able to visit their base to pick the iMac up. The guy in the store was unable to answer. I can't find anyone to contact via e-mail either.<p>I don't see Apple as a customer focused company.

I just thought I'd throw this out there... I've had this issue with every other IPS display I've ever used. I had three 21" HP IPS displays connected to a Mac Pro for a few years and all three of them exhibited tho exact same condition. The 23" Apple Cinema Displays we had at my university also did the same thing. I just chock it up to the IPS display technology, and assume all IPS displays do that to some degree. IPS is not known for having particularly great pixel twist times, and thats probably related. That said, I'd still use an IPS display in a heartbeat for the color accuracy. It's truly phenomenal. The after-image is annoying, but I'm happy to trade it for the color accuracy.

My perception of Apple has pretty much been like this guy's for 10 years now, ever since I shelled out 250GBP on a 20G iPod whose battery ran out just over a year later.<p>I went to an Apple store and asked whether I could have the battery replaced, presumably for a price. "Just buy a new one, man!" was the response.<p>I'd taken a gamble buying the iPod (I didn't have much money at the time), was prepared to pay to replace the replaceable part. The sheer arrogance and condescension of the response, and the assumption that Apple consumers had money to burn made my blood boil. I haven't bought anything Apple since.

This reminds me of HP. Eons ago at a shop, I purchased an HP IPAQ Palmtop. As we opened it inside the store to check, it had a blue dead pixel. The store clerk, promptly closed the box and picked another one for me. We opened it and boom, another dead pixel. We tried five IPAQs, they all had 1 dead pixel. He phoned HP and told them that. HP answered that 1 dead pixel was okay by their quality standard. The clerk made an ugly face and turned to me and said: "at least you can choose the location of your dead pixel from these five available choices".

I have a retina iPad (version 3) and since 2 months regularly I've got a full white screen when I turn it on and I have to make some voodoo incantations in order to make it disappear. So finally I sent it to Apple and they returned me without any repair after having concluded they could not reproduce this issue. So now I'm back with an iPad that is not working correctly half of the time. I'm disappointed at Apple, I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed. I'd live near an Apple store I'd brought the iPad to show them the issue but it's not the case.

It's very easy to fake the test and then say - look, your screen is within tolerance:<p>- provide a black &#38; white pattern for 3 minutes<p>- provide a gray pattern _with compensation_ for the black&#38;white for 1 minute<p>If your gray compensation doesn't fall through the minute, you are within tolerance. If not, then the compensation was not enough and your screen is way off.<p>Either way, your screen is toast.<p>Since, by definition, only people with defective screens will waste time to go to service, only they will see the test and risk to see the compensation on a good screen.

in my experience, it takes a few tries to successfully roll the hard six to get a sympathetic genius. it's not exactly social engineering, but there are some folks who are more likely to take your side especially if you can show that the problem is happening while you're sitting there with them.<p>still, the fact that the applecare universe works like that at all is a bit disheartening especially if you have a legitimate hardware issue but an unsympathetic genius.

Apple has had all sorts of screen problems for many years now. Most customers don't notice them, but if you're keen to such things, you probably don't approach powering up a new Apple device with the joy that's supposed to come with it. You hold your breath and scan the screen with great anxiety for dead pixels, yellow stripes, pink and green splotches, uneven backlighting, ghosting, and light leakage.

Apple has always been pretty much rigid about results of their tests during repairs or replacements.<p>To be fair, I got almost every single part of my Macbook replaced after a surge incident that was caused internally - but I have never been able to negotiate even a repair of something trivial in cases where Apple tests fail.<p>They do bend over backwards for helping us out - but their tests could be very unrealistic some times.

There is a new MacBook Retina clamshell that was pushed out a month before the 13" MBPr hit the shelves.<p>I had mine replaced due to pretty intense ghosting after just 2 minutes, and when I went in to the Genius Bar, they found the clamshell part had a new model number (vs the one they had seen a week before). This one does not ghost.

It'd be nice if these discussions actually came with large scale customer surveys to determine how the public as a whole feels. Perhaps Consumer Reports has looked into this. Right now all of this is just a lot of heat and emotion in both directions, coupled with stirring but useless anecdata.

I was just about to buy MacBook Pro Retina 15, 16GB, 512GB, when I found out about this ghosting problem. I could not take the risk of getting faulty screen (I would have buy it on trip to US). I am surprised that Apple is not doing anything about it. This problem is known for months

Can someone posts some pictures showing how the ghosting interferes with regular applications (Safari, iTunes, XCode etc)? Maybe it is something one can live with, especially considering how primitive the existing displays are compared to the retina display.

apple have had their day. Their going downhill FAST.<p>I'm glad I got to experience apple when they were great, it was the tail end of their greatness but they created beautiful products and cared about the consumer.<p>Now their all about the money.<p>I recently had to book a genius appt and wait a week to get a new charger. w-t-f apple. In the old days any staff would try out your charger, realise it didn't work and then replace it (assuming it was under warrenty) now I have to spend £65 and then get a refund the week after. and they gave me ANOTHER new charger. Why not let me keep the one I paid for and not create more waste.<p>already left the iphone fold but unfortunately osx (snow leopard at least) is a great OS :(

I bought a macbook pro late '11 from almost the same reasons: apple's good, shiny etc...sorry was. Even if some will call me a traitor, I am thinking to switch my iPhone for a Lumia :)

After using Xcode for a full day I can see my immortal soul stuck in the desktop background.<p>I avoid using iMacs with any kind of glue near the LCD for obvious reasons.

I'm so glad this issue is finally getting some attention.<p>I returned my rMBP after experiencing the issue. It looks that getting a Samsung screen is a game of chance.

Same issue.

Thanks for posting this. I thought about buying one before the end of the year, but now I'll wait for the second generation.

We all had a tiny intuition that apple is not going to be the same after Steve Jobs death. Apple is gone for good!

thank you for posting this!! looks like i ran into in just the knick of time. i just recently purchased a new macbook pro with a retina display for my brother how lives out of the country. will make sure i have a samsung display so he doesn't have ghosting issues or apple care issues in the future!

My two year old £200 24" LCD showed no signs of ghosting at all.

I've had similar issues with Cinema Displays in mid 2000-s.

rMBP here and yup ghosting issue

Glad I got a Lenovo. I was mulling over getting a macbook for the longest time since I wanted the option to develop iPhone apps. After thinking it over I realized that I was disgusted with Apple's practices and didn't want to support them beyond what I absolutely had to, so I'm getting a Thinkpad and I'm quite content with that. Any phone dev will have Android first and I'll get a second hand mini or something when I need to do iPhone work.

&#62;<i>I'm writing this because I think Apple may have changed.</i><p>Really? How it's different from, say, the constantly failing logic boards on iBooks G3? Or overheating on MBP circa 2007. Or the problems with the G4 Cube. Or the green goo from G5 Mac Pros' liquid cooling.<p>Shit happened with Apple before AND after Jobs. Especially when you buy a first generation model, like the Retina was. Wait it out till they iron the problems.<p>I've had similar things happen to my PC machines. On them at a much bigger rate than in Apple gear. I had IBM "Death"star disk drives failing in 3 machines on my small company. I checked the webs, and they had issued a note that the disks were problematic and suggested not running them for more than 700 consecutive hours (!!!). And that's from IBM. Another time I had an AMD machine that overheated and stopped working (processor shutdown). Or a Toshiba laptop that lost 3 keys in 2 years and the DVD never wrote a disk correctly.<p>The difference is, a company like Toshiba or Acer, ships less units and more models (and far more variations), so a faulty run at them affects, say, 50,000 people, whereas a faulty Apple run affects one or two million.<p>Not to mention that most models from those companies rarely stray of the "proven and boring" road, so they get things like Retina, thunderbolt etc after all the quirks have been ironed out by more forward moving companies (Apple, sometimes Sony, etc).

Apple is greedy? No way!

Ah, $500B+ market cap company problems...

I think the OP should apply for a patent on this test.