Ask HN: My 13 year-old cousin hacked into his school's system. What advice would you give?

When I was in high school, I guessed the administrator password of our computer lab (it was the administrator's daughter's first name) and basically maintained the computer lab for the rest of the semester. I never did any harm in the process. The administrator, upon finding out what I had done, recognized that I knew what I was doing, and supported my work. I fixed permissions that repaired apps that had been mysteriously broken for years, reset other students' passwords at their request, and lots of other helpful things..<p>Then one day my teacher switched places with the only other person who had the admin password, and she didn't know about what I had been doing. When she found out that I had administrator access, she was infuriated. She called me a "hacker" and reported me to the principal. The principal planned to give me a 0 in the class and possibly expel me from school. The only people who were allowed to be in the "hearing" which decided my fate was the pissed off teacher and the principal. The administrator, who vouched for me, was told that no one asked for his opinion and that it wasn't relevant. I almost failed to graduate because of this, and it was only through being persistent and involving every teacher I knew that I managed to not fail (the principal reduced my grade to 75/100 instead of failing me).<p>I would tell your son that most adults who have authority (including principals, teachers, judges and police officers) do not understand technology and computers very well, and therefore it's important to not only operate within the scope of the law and rules of his school, but to also not even <i>appear</i> to operate outside those rules. Computers are cheap, and in 2009 there's not much more interesting in his school's network than what he can set up on a $200 netbook.

The best reference I can recommend would be Eric Raymond's "How To Become A Hacker" : <a href="http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html</a> The key point the article points out is that "The basic difference is this: hackers build things, crackers break them." The teenage thrill of breaking into computer systems is certainly exciting but perhaps he will be even more enthusiastic about learning to be curious about how things work under the hood, how to do clever things via programming and how to develop a true hacker mind set. Of course all this without the risk of getting into trouble like breaking into his school's computer system. I am glad to know that he did not choose to do any major damage but nevertheless I hope he grows up to become a fine hacker and understand the true meaning of being one. Good luck and great effort on your behalf to try to advise him in the correct path!

Just because you CAN screw around with someone else's property doesn't mean you SHOULD. Although it can be exciting (especially at that age) to do something forbidden, he can suffer the consequences if caught. He might inadvertently harm the system and could wind up in serious legal trouble. It's like walking up to someone's front door, twisting the knob and discovering that they forgot to lock it when they left. That doesn't give him the right to enter the house, even if all he wanted to do was "look around". Turn the situation around: would he want someone hacking into his home computer because he didn't have it properly secured? Would they have the right to do it to him?

I'd try the "with great power comes great responsibility" angle. They did the best their muddled minds could do to secure their system. It was trivially easy to break into it using your l33t haxor skillz, but might does not make right. Have a little compassion.<p>Also, remember, embarrassing them in this way might cause them to use the great power they have over you to make your life miserable as well. It goes both ways. The luddites in charge of public schools are usually docile, slow moving creatures, but they can become suddenly fierce if poked in the eye with a sharp stick.

Whatever you do, do <i>not</i> punish him for this. While what he did was not right (though your use of "hacking" here is very broad), instead of telling him how wrong it was, simply try to push him in a more positive direction. My suggestion would be to ask him to work on some sort of project for or with you, perhaps even get him involved in something small and open source. Starting a website may even push him in the right direction.<p>An alternative would be to talk to the school and see if they could give him some sort of credit for helping administer the network, or work on a special project for the school.<p>To give you an anecdote: in high school (and this was only a few years ago), me and my friends consistently were cracking passwords and breaking into various parts of our school's network. We never did anything harmful, nor did we ever cheat, but we did it for the fun and the challenge. One day, we happened to find a file containing all the passwords to every user on the network -- teachers, guidance counselors, and principal included -- and we turned it into the principal. Instead of telling us we were wrong for "hacking the network" and questioning us, he thanked us profusely and got the file deleted from the network. No punishment.<p>In middle school, however, I got in minor trouble for "hacking" by using proxies to skirt around the school's filtering system. The "techs" in the computer lab quite literally pulled me out of class and angrily questioned me, telling me how I was wrong and what I did was bad. What happened? I continued doing it, and just made sure not to be caught.<p>My point is that telling him he is wrong will not stop him, and he will likely continue what he is doing because it stimulates him and he finds it exciting. By nurturing that excitement and funneling it into something constructive, such as an alternative project, he will learn what the better avenues are and likely forget about "hacking"/cracking almost (if not) completely.

Don't get caught.

Show him this:<p><a href="http://www.paulgraham.com/hs.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.paulgraham.com/hs.html</a>

Why was it wrong ?<p>He shouldn't have been able to do it anyway. Compare it to a kid kicking against a fence and finding out that it swings open.<p>Simply explain that if you have no business in a system that you should not try to gain access, that should be plenty.

Do what my parents did when I got suspended for "hacking":<p>1) Get him a new computer (but with a crappy video card, if he's into gaming)<p>2) Find him programming internships and introduce him to programmers you know<p>I would also add:<p>Tell him that he isn't a real programmer unless he understands Prolog, Haskell, C, and a flavor of Lisp (Scheme/Arc), although Python might be a good first language to start with. Be prepared to spend lots of $ on books - all of these topics have books which work for different people. I would recommend:<p>The Little Schemer series: <a href="http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/BTLS/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/BTLS/</a> and Programming in Haskell <a href="http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~gmh/book.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~gmh/book.html</a><p>These are solidly good books, there are others, but they really depend on personality.

define "hacking", did he do anything complicated, or did he just guess a password?

Tell him to stop before he gets caught. Even though he didn't do any damage, a school's administration will not take kindly to the potential threat that he is.<p>here's one example, a quick google search - 69 felonies for stealing tests and changing grades <a href="http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/38012/118/" rel="nofollow">http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/38012/118/</a><p>Also, even though he got in, I wouldn't attempt to notify them of their breach, because again the school will probably go ballistic on him, I think there was a news story about this, but what happened escapes me.

Your approach depends on a lot of things really.<p>I often thing, personallly, that whilst reading books/articles is good it doesn't help instill a lot into a young hacker.<p>First I would buy him Kevin Mitnicks books. I recommend them to every new hacker because: a) some of the stories are unbelievably inspiring! b) it's all real life stuff c) he manages to tell the stories of these great hacks without glamourising the illegality. It does a lot to prove hacking can be great fun within legal bounds.<p>The next thing I would do is encourage him to get involved with a programming community. Get him to learn a language and start ot play with it. :)<p>in terms of cracking (as opposed to hacking) sometimes pushing the boundaries happens (either for personal reasons or professional). I would teach your cousin that breaking the law is wrong. Breaking into the schools system is (speaking technically) as bad as breaking into a microsoft server. But the impact of the 2 activities (assuming it was simply to look both times) is very different. Try to show him that experimenting with something like the school system is fairly harmless but still wrong and he should take it no further unless he has permission :) (offer the school a pen test :D)<p>Finally a lot of people are saying "teach him not to get caught" (essentially). This is a most important lesson. I crack for a living (White Hat I hasten to add) and one of the things that makes me good at that is paying attention to covering my actions :)

If your cousin is interested in doing that kind of work, why not suggest him to volunteer with the school? All the other responses seem to romanticize the rogue hacker. Instead, I think he should come clean, and do his work in the public. He could offer to audit the school's network. For a 13 year old, this would be a great opportunity to teach him to be professional and helpful.

I'd tell him to set himself up for success. His activity was innocent this time but by creating situations where he has the opportunity to do so not-so-innocent things, he'll give in to the temptation someday. It's like working at McDonalds or KFC: there is a big chance that you'll gain 2-3 lbs ever month you work there because sooner or later, you'll eat there. He shouldn't put himself into such situations where he can screw up. Bad decisions snow-ball.

Tell your cousin he gets about 3 more years of goofing around like that where he should use the "stupid kid" or "I dunno" defense and get off scott-free or with a slap on the wrist. Once he's an adult though, the kiddy stuff has to stop.<p>If he's messing with financial systems or other serious stuff, give him a <i>thwock</i> on the skull and remind him that it would be unfair and immoral to screw with the systems more than the CEOs and bankers already have. =)

My only advice is to go for B's. A will be too suspicious.

Just let him know what the potential consequences are, and your recommendation (which I'm assuming is to "not" continue).<p>See if there is any way you can spin this toward the "good", by possibly having a meeting with the schools principal and systems admin. This is obviously a crap shoot, but could possibly be beneficial to your son's education.

World is full of hackers. Some hackers are good...some are bad. He needs to choice his site in this thing. If he is "good" hacker, i suggest continue, if he is "bad" hacker, he can hack into government networks without getting caught. But if he gets caught, he goes to jail for a long time, maybe less than 10 years.

I'm guessing "war games" wouldn't help :-)

Just don't let him blog about it... my dumb ass did that and got expelled. Best thing that ever happened to me, looking back, but it caused a whole lot of turmoil.

Firstly make sure he realizes if he gets caught, the government is going to ground him from coming near another computer for 20 years.

he didn't do anything wrong. congratulate him, and offer him links to some things you think he may enjoy to learn more.<p>if you fear he will make mistakes, the best way to combat that is with knowledge, not by taking the school's side against him and calling his great success immoral.

Being smart is not an excuse to be lazy. Also, don't be stupid.

Each man has a right to his own property, including his intellectual property. Therefore it is wrong to "hack" if this means breaking into somebody's system without their permission, because it is a violation of the right to property. A copy of 'Atlas Shrugged' could drive this point home I think. But there are great jobs in computer security, in which people can get payed to "break into" systems to smell out the security flaws. This might be a positive way of channeling this individual's skill set.