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A new type of piano keyboard: The Seaboard

119 点作者 jellyksong大约 12 年前

19 条评论

Tekker大约 12 年前
Although the comments seem against it, I'm for it - I've played piano (and organ) for some 45 years now. You have to remember that the piano is mainly a percussion instrument, and there are few options to temper the sound, outside of sustain and such.<p>Synthesizers have had the same capability as shown in the video, but you had to reach to the side and twirl a wheel to get the same effect, which detracts from the playability.<p>Initially, this is not suited for traditional classical (probably better for jazz) but who's to say someone couldn't write a new classical based on this instrument (although goodness knows what the musical notation would be).
the_cat_kittles大约 12 年前
I love the idea of creating new instruments that are sensitive to new and different parameters. I think the seaboard is pretty cool, and it looks like there are some things you can do with it that you can't do with traditional midi keyboards (velocity modulation after initial keypress- i think that is called aftertouch in midi land) and key specific pitch bending.<p>But it also reminds me of one reason why analogue (acoustic) instruments can so incredibly powerful: they are ultimately extensible! You don't need to explicitly describe how the thing will react to input, and its not ignorant (though maybe not very responsive) of any physical input. Throughout history, people have been continually discovering new techniques on so many different instruments, even though some of those instrument's designs have changed very little. This is, of course, all predicated on a good initial instrumental design, but it makes me appreciate the wonders of, say, a guitar or piano even more.
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gtani大约 12 年前
People might want to check out Roger Linn, Ed Goldfarb, Geert Bevin (I'd really like to have a continuum and eigenharp), and actuated instruments site.<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1s-neJs8IY" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1s-neJs8IY</a><p><a href="http://actuatedinstruments.com/" rel="nofollow">http://actuatedinstruments.com/</a><p>______________________<p>Also "That 1 guy" "Haaken continuum", Wessel's touchpads (a better Kaossilator, if you will, and Fluid Piaano<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ci6TmR29OI" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ci6TmR29OI</a><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnBhR8RLJN8" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnBhR8RLJN8</a><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_mtCZqN0Ms" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_mtCZqN0Ms</a><p><a href="http://thefluidpiano.com/" rel="nofollow">http://thefluidpiano.com/</a><p>_______________________<p>(I don't have any nonstandard instruments (except maybe fretless guitar) but I've thought about this as amateur player of piano/keys, guitar, strings (cello), woodwinds and former mallet percussionist, how you could combine mouthpiece and foot controllers with keyboard, how to do glisses, tremolo, vibrato etc, i.e. shape the attack/decay, timbre and pitch (continuously or as in Don Ellis' quarter tone music) like you can with cello and clarinet
ChuckMcM大约 12 年前
I assume it's the way it was shot that not all of the notes that are being played start or end with movements and/or touches of the keyboard. (not being snarky, its just noticeable is all) I think its great that people are doing alternative instruments like this. For a while we've had synthesizers providing the tone generator for recreated inputs (like the laser harp) but this gives us more input options.<p>There is another such "keyboard" which is more like a horizontal bass/chello fret than a keyboard. I played around on it when it was being demoed at Guitar Center in San Jose. As a former Trombone player it felt similar in the 'feel' of the intonation was there rather than explicitly hitting a particular key. And the ability to 'slide up' or 'slide down' into the correct not if you were close but not quite. Something I've never been able to do on a keyboard (although I have heard folks do that)<p>One of my instruments is an Arrick synth [1] which has a 1V/octave keyboard (and input) which is handy for prototyping unusual types of input.<p>[1] <a href="http://www.synthesizers.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.synthesizers.com</a>
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jdietrich大约 12 年前
They've got excellent PR, but they're not doing anything particularly novel. They're advertising a solution to a long-solved part of the puzzle, but saying nothing about the really difficult bit of electronic music control - interoperability.<p>A quick bit of synthesiser history:<p>Traditional electronic keyboards sense how hard you hit the key with two switches, set a distance apart vertically. Measure the time between each switch closing and you have one side of v=d/t. Simple, cheap and all you need for controlling an emulation of a piano.<p>That was improved by adding aftertouch, a simple pressure strip underneath the keybed which provided an additional axis of control. That approach evolved quite quickly, peaking in 1976 with Yamaha's CS-80 synthesiser, which could sense both vertical and horizontal pressure on each key polyphonically. This was a hugely elaborate and expensive instrument but was extremely expressive, as best heard on Vangelis' soundtrack to Blade Runner.<p>Progress in this field came to a grinding halt in 1983, with the release of MIDI, an interoperable standard for electronic music instruments that became completely ubiquitous. MIDI was a tremendous breakthrough and made all sorts of previously very difficult things quite easy, but it had all of the usual failings of a successful standard.<p>MIDI has left us stuck with design decisions from 1983, the worst of these being the incredibly low data-rate. MIDI is an 8-bit protocol, operating at 31.25kbaud. The standard doesn't include any means of transmitting expression data other than velocity on a per-note basis. You can bend the pitch of all the notes currently sounding, but not one note out of a chord. If you try and send too much controller information over a channel, the timing goes to pot as you run out of bandwidth.<p>There's an obvious problem of platform lock-in, which nobody seems able to break - a controller of this type can't usefully control any existing sound source. There are numerous extant controllers of similar sophistication to the Seaboard, but they've all failed commercially because of their inability to usefully control existing sound generators.<p>The hoped-for solution to this problem is the Open Sound Control protocol, but this faces numerous problems. The most obvious is that MIDI is deeply entrenched, to the point that its shortcomings are rendered non-obvious to most musicians - our sense of the boundaries of electronic music are often inseperable from the limits of MIDI, so we don't often think about the sounds that we're unable to make with current technology. The other big issue is that of all reforms of old standards - an inability to manage scope and complexity.<p>The developers of OSC are obviously fearful of repeating the problems of MIDI, so they've gone in completely the opposite direction and designed a totally open-ended protocol. This has massively limited adoption of OSC by musicians, because it's extremely difficult to understand. A MIDI message is just a single byte and it's not too difficult to memorise the entire protocol - until the development of graphical computer-based sequencers, it was quite common to tidy up a recorded sequence of MIDI messages in a hex editor - any given MIDI message was just a single octet. OSC is designed to deal with every possible edge case, which of course makes it needlessly complex for the most common use-cases.<p>Controllers like these are doomed to niche appeal unless the manufacturers focus on the real problem - how to use the control data they generate in a manner which is both musically useful, and comprehensible to the musician.<p>The last major attempt was the Eigenharp, which used a bespoke software suite with a number of software instruments specifically designed for the instrument. It garnered a great deal of attention in the popular press, but nobody has made any worthwhile music with it yet.
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adventured大约 12 年前
Interesting product, really terrible website.<p>I know the rolling page layouts are popular these days, but in this case it just looks bad. Lots of transparency around text, which makes some of it hard to read or focus on.<p>The navigation at the top left should always display all the sections (I shouldn't have to mouse over the little cubes to reveal what they are).<p>When the nav text for "technology" passes over the blue background text quote area, it nearly disappears.<p>The grey block area with "what the press are saying" is some kind of twisted attempt at straining my eyes by putting tiny grey text on a grey block in a larger grey area. Why would anybody do that to text?<p>The we are ROLI block near the bottom is a transparent nightmare for the text meant to be read.<p>The form at the bottom at least pops out a bit, but still suffers from a heavy abuse of transparency with text on it.
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ccoggins大约 12 年前
A professor I had in college created something very similar back in the 90's. He would have them in the lab occasionally and they were pretty interesting to play. <a href="http://www.hakenaudio.com/Continuum/" rel="nofollow">http://www.hakenaudio.com/Continuum/</a>
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triplesec大约 12 年前
A good interview by Rory Cellan Jones from the BBC: <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21699459" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21699459</a> This looks like an awesome product, in the real sense of the word.
canibanoglu大约 12 年前
Seen this one a couple days ago and I honestly can't understand what the hype is all about. I've been playing the piano for 11 years now and I can't see myself or any classical pianist using this product. I'm aware that this is most likely not intended for classical musicians but still, I fail to see the reason to change the design of an instrument that's been around for a very long time in one form or another. Change for the sake of change is pointless.
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mullr大约 12 年前
I'm very suspicious of this and related products.<p>The thing that's really great about all our acoustic musical instruments is that when you push on them, they <i>push back</i>. I don't mean this simply in the normal force sense. Consider a guitar. You've got a string which you press over a fret with your left hand. This can be naively emulated by a switch. But with the guitar, the timber and pitch change depending on <i>how</i> you fret the note, on the finger pressure and position and motion. With your other hand, you might be plucking the string in any of a number of different places, with your finger or with a pick. The sound is affected by your attack angle, how hard you pick, the pick's composition, and so on.<p>A guitar string is clearly a complicated system. There are lots of variables at play. But more importantly, it's a <i>coherent</i> system. It makes sense to us a physical object that can be manipulated. When you pluck the string, you can feel it vibrate in your fretting hand. When you bend the string its tension increases. If you amplify it, you get the sense that you are physically <i>touching</i> the sound.<p>(This is incidentally, why audio latency absolutely KILLS when doing amp simulation)<p>The experience playing a wind instrument is similar. While a saxophone may appear to be something you blow into that has keys, things are really far more complicated than that.<p>Keyboard-based instruments are a little different. Unlike most any symphonic instrument, the piano actually has relatively few parameters per key. There's note velocity... and that's about it. The various sustain pedals also apply. The piano's design trades single note expressivity for the ability to play ten of them at once.<p>It should be noted that computer synthesis (procedural or sampled) of keyboard-based is very convincing. They same cannot be said for any other instrument.<p>Now, what about new kinds of control systems? Most of them tend to fall into two categories. One tries to improve on the piano harmonically, by coming up with a better arrangement of where the notes go. Here's an overview of some: <a href="http://sequence15.blogspot.jp/2010/03/alternative-keyboards.html" rel="nofollow">http://sequence15.blogspot.jp/2010/03/alternative-keyboards....</a>. They try to fix the fact that it's hard to play in different keys on a piano. Whereas on the guitar you can learn a single scale or chord and move it up and down the neck to transpose, things change radically on a piano keyboard.<p>The second category is those like the Seaboard, which try to add new dimensions of control to a regular piano keyboard. Another example is the Contiuum (<a href="http://www.hakenaudio.com/Continuum/" rel="nofollow">http://www.hakenaudio.com/Continuum/</a>) It's very common now to have both velocity and continuous pressure sensitivity (aftertouch) on a regular keyboard as well as various side controllers for dealing with pitch or an abstract "modulation" parameter.<p>These controllers nearly always buy into the separation of control from synthesis. It makes perfect technical sense. But most of the instruments we would consider to be "expressive" don't work that way! In fact piano-style instruments are pretty much the only ones that do.<p>Which leads my to my point: A control mechanism should be considered together with the instrument it controls. It's fantastic that this new keyboard has all these new dimensions that you can map to sound, but what is it REALLY good for? What is the instrument that <i>wants</i> to be controlled in this way? The spiffy new control surfaces nearly always leave this problem unsolved and thus remain little more than novelty items.
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Kiro大约 12 年前
Why all this negativity? I think it looks awesome and I want to buy one right now.
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baby大约 12 年前
I feel like most of the stuff that surround us were created THIS way because we just didn't have the technology to make it better yet. That's what I see with those new Pianos and also with the 48fps movies <a href="https://www.facebook.com/notes/peter-jackson/48-frames-per-second/10150222861171558" rel="nofollow">https://www.facebook.com/notes/peter-jackson/48-frames-per-s...</a>
tomsthumb大约 12 年前
As far as interesting musical interfaces go, the axis 64 is the most amazing thing I've ever seen from a conceptual standpoint. It's like someone just laid down the same of all of these relationships that make music work and put into something your hands can push on. What's weird is that even though it's just an /interface/ it makes the /concepts/ easy to grasp, manipulate, etc.<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7OeRkXWTtQ" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7OeRkXWTtQ</a>
andrewcooke大约 12 年前
the site seems to be mostly down; the demo video is here - <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n-bEy9ISpM" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n-bEy9ISpM</a>
paperkettle大约 12 年前
<a href="http://madronalabs.com/" rel="nofollow">http://madronalabs.com/</a> makes something called the Soundplane - it feels like a present someone sent me from the future.<p>So nice to touch. A high resolution / super responsive controller.. of wood! Maybe I'm just not enough of a cyborg but the wood surface made the Haken Continuum (wetsuit material) far less compelling. I worry the same thing of the Seaboard.
danpalmer大约 12 年前
I'm not musical – I can't play an instrument and I don't analyse the music I listen to. But I like listening to music, and to me, this sounds worse than a normal keyboard/piano. It looks (and sounds) really difficult to produce a precise note with, so I wonder if it will take off at all.
brownbat大约 12 年前
Since the site is crushed, here's a demo on youtube that seems to get some of the point across: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n-bEy9ISpM" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n-bEy9ISpM</a>
hfsktr大约 12 年前
The cached version worked but the site kept giving me 403 errors. Unfortunately I know so little of music/keyboards that I couldn't really tell the difference between this and any other keyboard.
khromov大约 12 年前
Looks like something from a Cronenberg movie!