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A new study suggests alcohol is more harmful than heroin or crack

46 点作者 cammsaul大约 12 年前

18 条评论

sk5t大约 12 年前
This seems to me like a really simple-minded article--who is surprised that the most available, legal, inexpensive, socially-acceptable drug has the largest impact? By this measure walking down a flight of stairs is more dangerous than mountain climbing.
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aresant大约 12 年前
From the original study:<p>"Many of the harms of drugs are affected by their availability and legal status, which varies across countries, so our results are not necessarily applicable to countries with very different legal and cultural attitudes to drugs." (1)<p>And I'm still confused - are they weighting for per-user, or overall?<p>Under a per-user model this is interesting.<p>Under an "overall" model this is obvious (legality of alcohol)<p>Since neither the linked article or the original study make this clear, I'm voting by clicking "flag"<p>(1) Source: <a href="http://www.chanvre-info.ch/info/en/IMG/pdf/drug-harms-in-the-uk-a-multicriteria-decision-analysis-1.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.chanvre-info.ch/info/en/IMG/pdf/drug-harms-in-the...</a>
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pervycreeper大约 12 年前
&#62;to rank 20 drugs (legal and illegal) on 16 measures of harm to the user and to wider society, such as damage to health, drug dependency, economic costs and crime<p>What I don't understand about these studies is what mathematical basis they use for comparing the relative impact of these various factors. I would assume that these would all be completely different, and as a consequence, incommensurable. However, studies like this seem to have found appropriate relative weights for these factors, and were able to add them all together. I would be interested in knowing if it's really possible to do this without producing a figure that's totally bogus, and if so, how.
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Alex3917大约 12 年前
tl;dr If you want to be healthier, switch from drinking wine to huffing butane.<p>I've posted this before, but since I can't seem to find it in the search I'll just copy paste the explanation of why this is propaganda rather than science:<p>- The full methodology isn't actually published anywhere.<p>- The rankings are created by combining a lot of different factors that don't have anything to do with each other, e.g. by combining harm to the user with harm to society. This means that drugs like coffee end up being more dangerous than drugs like heroin, simply because more people use coffee than heroin so the total social costs are greater.<p>- The harms for drugs are measured as they are typically used, rather than correcting for things like differences in demographic and route of administration. This leads to drugs like heroin looking more dangerous than they are, because people who have drug abuse problems tend to gravitate toward drugs like heroin. (Whereas people who use, say, Khat tend not to be the worst of the worst as drug abusers go.) This is especially problematic since how drugs are typically used depends on the laws that exist to encourage or discourage their use. E.g. when drugs like tobacco and coffee used to be illegal, they were used more similarly to how crack and heroin are typically used today. So the idea of using these rankings, which are meaningless to begin with, as an argument for setting public policy is completely nonsensical.<p>- The harms of the drugs caused by prohibition are not accounted for. (E.g. they are counting people using dirty needles and impure/unknown/fake drugs as being a harm that stems from heroin, but they aren't counting using dirty needles and fake Starbucks as being a harm that stems from drinking coffee.)<p>-The way they assess the harms is by doing a survey of mainly psychiatrists and just asking their opinion. It's not scientific at all. If the people they were asking for their opinions were experts this wouldn't be scientific, but the people they're asking aren't even experts.<p>-The idea that some drugs are more harmful than others is anti-scientific to begin with, since the dosage makes the poison. E.g. there is no way to say whether weed or heroin is more harmful, since it's all about patterns of usage. Same for the idea that some drugs are more addictive than others.<p>- They're not accounting for the benefits of drug use, only the harms.
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andyl大约 12 年前
I grew up in a drinking culture, and damn we loved to party. Nothing was funnier than a drunk friend doing something stupid.<p>Twenty five years later: four of my school friends are dead from alcohol. Fuck - that kind of takes the fun out of it - I loved those people.<p>Most people can handle drugs and alcohol just fine. But a lot of people can't.
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JVIDEL大约 12 年前
I always wondered why alcohol didn't get the same restrictions that cigarettes got: sure you can still buy marlboros anywhere, they are not banned and the police wont throw you in a cell for carrying a pack, but ads for tobacco are seriously curtailed if not outright forbidden in most places and the boxes themselves are full of health warnings.<p>Why don't do the same with alcohol? Where I live ads for beer, wine and other drinks are literally EVERYWHERE, and the way the ads are made is plain manipulative, something even Don Draper would consider <i>going too far</i>. It doesn't takes a psychologist to see alcohol ads much like the cigarettes go for the exact opposite of what an addict's life is like, and just like marlboro told men they could be cowboys and go into adventures beer ads say you can party hard 24/7 and nail all the chicks you want/see by being pissing-in-your-pants drunk.<p>Ironically the most realistic beer ad I ever saw was Pißwasser's in GTAIV.
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hluska大约 12 年前
I think that this chart (sourced from Figure 4) is rather telling. I changed the order to reflect the cumulative weight of each of the factors, then added in whether the study considers each item to be a harm to others, or a harm to the user.<p>Economic cost (CW 12·8) - others<p>Injury (CW 11·5) - others<p>Crime (CW 10·2) - others<p>Family adversities (CW 8·9) - others<p>Drug-related mortality (CW 6·4) - users<p>Dependence (CW 5·7) - users<p>Drug-specific impairment of mental functioning (CW 5·7) - users<p>Drug-related impairment of mental functioning (CW 5·7) - users<p>Drug-specific mortality (CW 5·1) - users<p>Loss of tangibles (CW 4·5) - users<p>Loss of relationships (CW 4·5) - users<p>Drug-specific damage (CW 4·1) - users<p>Drug-related damage (CW 4·1) - users<p>Environmental damage (CW 3·8) - others<p>International damage (CW 3·8) - others<p>Community (CW 3·2) - others
kghose大约 12 年前
Expanding on an point by grimtrigger, is this related to damage per user, or overall damage? If governments no longer controlled heroin, and the number of users spiked to be the same as the number of users of alcohol would the graphs change.<p>I suspect that because of dependency, strong drugs would still lead to increases in crime, since they would still cost something, and their users would still not be in a position to productively earn to feed their habit especially as they got deeper into the addiction.
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grimtrigger大约 12 年前
Is this chart adjusted for number of users? For example if not a single person in the UK used alcohol, would it drop to the bottom of the list?<p>If not, it makes very little intuitive sense.
jlgreco大约 12 年前
Where does the societal harm from anabolic steroids come from? Is it because anabolic steroids have an illegal black market? Why don't LSD and mushrooms have that same black market induced societal harm then?<p>And how does harm to self from anabolic steroids come under harm to self from cannibis? Has anyone ever killed their liver with cannibis? Anabolic steroids can do that, and much more, to your body.<p>This whole thing seems very bullshitty to me.
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mattangriffel大约 12 年前
Wait, how is methamphetamine use not harmful to others? Doesn't methamphetamine use specifically lead to erratic behavior?
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D9u大约 12 年前
I dare say that alcohol is more harmful than Americans' owning assault rifles. Thus, by extrapolation, the gun-control proponents should also be clamoring for increased control of alcohol if they were truly concerned about "protecting the children."
nbdbvcrea大约 12 年前
Pdf: <a href="http://www.chanvre-info.ch/info/en/IMG/pdf/drug-harms-in-the-uk-a-multicriteria-decision-analysis-1.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.chanvre-info.ch/info/en/IMG/pdf/drug-harms-in-the...</a>
NatW大约 12 年前
Reading the study, this poll/index-based study actually did rank Crack Cocaine more harmful than Alcohol in terms of "harm to others". On that axis, they claim the worst in terms of "harm to others are, in order: 1. Crack Cocaine, 2. Heroin, 3. Metamfetamine and 4. Alcohol.<p>Alcohol ranked #1 in terms of "harm to yourself". In order for "harm to yourself" they found: 1. Alcohol, 2. Heroin, 3. Crack Cocaine.<p>There are many issues with this study, obviously. Dosages / use can significantly differ between drugs, etc.
afterburner大约 12 年前
So why is cannabis so high? Especially "to others". Why did researchers rank it so high, so often? I have to wonder what the "harm" was that they were thinking of so frequently.
bcoates大约 12 年前
Given that we've established that this study is invalid as a matter of methodology, are there any <i>legitmate</i> attempts to compare harm caused by various drugs? A graph like this would be really interesting if it were backed by actual evidence.
alexanderRohde大约 12 年前
So, despite the title, this is not new at all (2010). On an unrelated note it's very shoddy speculation, not based on life outcomes of alcohol users versus crack users or anything remotely meaningful.
standeven大约 12 年前
"A new study..."<p>"Nov 2nd 2010"