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My Time at Lehman

304 点作者 sakai大约 12 年前

27 条评论

rayiner大约 12 年前
"Which, it turns out, is a trader’s field day. What this meant, in its simplest form, is that these traders (or salespeople) could buy bonds at the "market" price from intelligent hedge fund managers in NYC and sell this same crap at much higher levels to unsophisticated (but legally considered "sophisticated") pension funds and insurance companies in middle America. What I discovered, quite starkly, is that the part of Wall Street that I worked in was simply transferring wealth from the less sophisticated investors often teachers’ pension funds and factory workers’ retirement accounts, to the more sophisticated investors..."<p>"'We are important providers of liquidity that create stable financial markets. We’re a crucial part of a system. And besides, if we don’t do it, someone else will.' These are the lies that people tell themselves so that they can buy larger homes."<p>Both of these things are completely true, and that's why American public policy is having such a hard time grappling with Wall Street. We try to rationalize the state of affairs by pointing out all the ways that Wall Street has an "unfair advantage" but the fact of the matter is that: what do you expect in a free market system that rewards every marginal advantage other than wealth to flow from less sophisticated people to more sophisticated ones? We like the idea of letting everyone transact freely, but we are uncomfortable with the "winner take all" implication of that policy.<p>Wall Street: 1) Hires some of the brighest people in the country (e.g. 40% of the author's class at Yale); 2) Aggressively weeds out that impressive pool by forcing out all but the most promising people within a few years; 3) Trains them rigorously and maintains a level of institutional knowledge transfer that tech companies can only dream of.<p>Why are we surprised that they disproportionately get the better end of every transaction?
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jwb119大约 12 年前
I worked at Lehman from 2004-2008 in investment banking and on the bond trading floor and I think I have a little more balanced view.<p>Yes, there are people on wall street that hate their jobs. Yes, there are people obsessed with money. That's easy to point out. But there are also some people that are there because they like working with their friends and making big bets, and getting proven wrong or right. It's actually similar to the culture of being a contrarian that I see in SV. And as to the point where the guy felt shorted by a million dollar bonus, wouldn't you feel shorted if you made the company 10x that in profit on your trades, and all your friends at other firms that made 10x got a bigger check than you? That's human nature, not something specific to wall street, even if it's easy to throw up your hands and say how shocking it is because of the amounts involved.<p>Anyway, I don't mean to be overly harsh on the article. It's possible my additional time there put some blinders on, and I still have a lot of friends that work on the street (a good percentage of whom actually like their jobs). It was really interesting to get Nick's perspective, and it's especially awesome that it's from someone else who has jumped over to startups from wall street. Just throwing my 2 cents in.
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jnewell大约 12 年前
I cringed when I read this headline on HN because I too worked for Lehman between 2006 and 2008. I felt the same way Nick did even around the same time (wanting to go back to making "real things"). However, lately I feel like I have come back somewhat full-circle. Many of the issues he complains about is rampant in almost of every industry.<p>For example, Groupon was basically taking advantage of unsophisticated small businesses. How much brain power in SV is devoted to tricking people to click on ads, "covert users" or become addicted to Zynga-style games? How many things are sold only because that company has the strongest name-brand even though better versions exist? Could you have sold the product for less than the customer paid and still make a profit?<p>You are almost always taking advantage of a customer in some ways but still providing a service or product that the customer ultimately wants. WS is just easy to pick on because they are the most blatant about this practice while at the same time protected by the government.
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tomkarlo大约 12 年前
I worked at Lehman for 4+ years (left in 2008) and while I didn't feel so negative about work (I was more senior than the OP) I definitely was in a spot where I knew that if I kept at it for another 10-20 years -- no matter how much money I made -- I would feel like I wasted my time.<p>I went back to tech, and now I have a job where I'm still well paid by any reasonable standard, and I really enjoy what I work on and who I work with. Given how much of our lives we spend at work and thinking about work, it can be a mistake to overvalue compensation as an element in our career decisions.
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danielna大约 12 年前
I have a strange sense of sadness for my friends who are "stuck" on Wall Street. Strange because it's weird to feel sad for someone making $250k+ per year, but I've heard their first hand accounts of how much they hate their jobs. If you're the type of person who can step back from the ego-driven culture of investment banking I feel like everyone reaches the same meta-conclusions that Nick did. It's just unbelievably hard for them to step away from the money.<p>I mean, I'd like to think I would be able to make that choice and that purpose and meaning would ultimately trump a large paycheck. But nobody's putting $250k+ in my pocket so it's genuinely hard to say.<p>Kudos to Nick for leaving. It took guts.
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bjhoops1大约 12 年前
"... of my class of 1400 graduates from Yale, forty percent took jobs in finance."<p>This reminds me of an interview with the President of Iceland, where they let their megabanks fail.<p>Speaking of the downside of having a huge banking sector, he said "... since then you have seen a great growth period in the Icelandic IT sector, the high-tech sector, the manufacturing sector, because they could suddenly get the engineers, the mathematicians, the computer scientists."<p>Really interesting interview. <a href="http://www.businessinsider.com/olafur-ragnur-grimsson-iceland-2012-4" rel="nofollow">http://www.businessinsider.com/olafur-ragnur-grimsson-icelan...</a>
retube大约 12 年前
I was at Lehman in 2007-08 and saw first-hand the firm implode. But what interests me was this statement:<p>"I would spend days attempting to understand the intrinsic value on structured bonds collateralized with physical jet engines or commercial real-estate scattered across various regions of the country."<p>Everybody bangs on about how complicated and opaque products like derivatives and asset-backed securities are... yet the most complex product of all no one bats an eyelid at: the share (or stock). The pay-off of a derivative can be modelled by a mathematical formula (and if not a closed-form solution than via a Monte Carlo distribution) but the pay-off of a stock - that's quite different. Modelling future company cash flows is not trivial.
anonymoushn大约 12 年前
The submitted URL is to the front page of the blog. The URL for the individual post is <a href="http://nickchirls.com/my-time-at-lehman" rel="nofollow">http://nickchirls.com/my-time-at-lehman</a>
lifeisstillgood大约 12 年前
<i>The experience reminded me of one as a child when I unfairly sold some worthless items to neighbors at a stoop sale in front of our house in Brooklyn. When my parents found out that night, they made me go from home to home on our block returning the money.</i><p>I think I like his parents :-)
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samcrawford大约 12 年前
I too joined Lehman as a graduate in 2007. My experience was different; I was based in the London office and was in a back-office role (IT Infrastructure). I also worked there as an intern in 2005-2006 (or "Industrial Placement" in Lehman-speak).<p>I have to say I enjoyed my time there. I primarily worked as a developer in a non-developer team, but was continually encouraged by management to pursue this work. This led to work with development teams in other regions, which really helped expand my horizons.<p>When I started making money from my website (independent of Lehman and unrelated to finance) and wanted to start it as a business, I had to approach legal and my division's MD for approval. They were completely supportive and again encouraged this work.<p>The downfall of Lehman was a sad but strangely exciting time for me. I remember staying up all night on September 14th watching the number of remote access sessions running, and suspected those users were doing the same as me and watching Bloomberg for an announcement. The following days and weeks saw a lot of interesting events take place, particularly from an infrastructure point of view. Barclays and Nomura (who bought different regions of the bank a few weeks apart) both rushed to connect their infrastructure to Lehman's, which resulted in some curious situations I'm still reluctant to mention publicly!<p>The most interesting part of it was the transition to Nomura for me. I stayed on there until mid-2010. It was a very different environment to Lehman. Our small team was given vastly expanded responsibilities to build out key services and infrastructure lost during the bankruptcy, and our team truly operated like a startup for about 9 months. We toiled tirelessly with teams in other regions to get services online before deadlines, and got a real sense of achievement out of it.<p>As things at the day-job settled down, my website became a startup and it was time to join that full time. Again, management was very supportive (incidentally the same management as at Lehman).<p>I look back on my time at Lehman/Nomura with fondness and truly believe my time there gave me experience I couldn't have received anywhere else.
jdross大约 12 年前
Not to be too self-promotional, but this is literally the problem we're solving at Addepar.<p>15 years ago the power shifted from banks to hedge funds, and then in 2008 it started shifting to investors. But they still don't have the tools to understand what's going on.<p>If you're interested in solving problems like this in an engineering-led company, please email me. I'd love to talk.
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a_p大约 12 年前
Investment bankers make money because they are allowed to borrow enormous sums of money (leverage) to invest. In other words, they are allowed to gamble with the money of others with very little consequences. There is no other industry where a company would be allowed to take on that much debt. It's like the old joke: How do you make a million dollars? Start with <i>n</i> million dollars! Even if you do make money in finance, your contribution to shareholders is probably a lot less than it would be in another line of work. Here [1] is an excellent write up about it.<p>In 2008, Barclays had over 43 times as much assets as they had equity (leverage ratio) while GlaxoSmithKline had a leverage ratio of 5. In 2011, GSK had a return on assets (money made from assets at its disposal) of 15%. Barclays had a ROA of 0.25%. GSK had a return on equity (ROE) of 67.2%, while Barclays had a ROE of 6.1%. In the same year, Barclays Capital (investment bank part of Barclays PLC) had a ROE of 10.3%, but had a leverage ratio of <i>55</i> and a ROA of just 0.18%. If you paid Barclays Capital employees the same salary as GSK employees, the pre-tax profits of BarCap would have doubled. <i>That</i> is why bankers pay should be limited — their ROE would be better although their leverage ratios are still way too high.<p>TL;DR version: If you want to work in a field where you generate real value instead of gambling with someone else's money, find a job where you <i>make</i> things. The world doesn't need more inappropriate math models of finance (no, the market is not always rational and large volatility is more common than you think) — it needs real research.<p>[1] <a href="http://www.moneyweek.com/news-and-charts/economics/uk/bankers-dont-have-talent-just-lots-of-borrowed-money-57728" rel="nofollow">http://www.moneyweek.com/news-and-charts/economics/uk/banker...</a>
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plg大约 12 年前
some will read this and think: "disgusting. thanks for the honest appraisal of what it's like... and it's disgusting."<p>Others will read this and think: "holy crap man, the people that are screwed by the company still make just under a million! I totally want to work on wall street. I'll be rich"<p>It's a jungle out there
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PeterisP大约 12 年前
"When you’d rather have someone shit on your face than go to work, it’s probably time to leave." sums up the article.
dsdjung大约 12 年前
I remember a friend who was telling me that only reason this wall street thing works is because there are enough not-well-informed people who will continue to feed money into the market for other well informed people to profit from. It is about people being in a market that they know very little about in a hope of making some riches.
pisarzp大约 12 年前
Great article. I had similar thoughts when I quite my Investment Banking career.<p>What I was surprised by in the bank is how many people think that the money make other people respsect them. They forget though, that most billionaires are respected for the things they created, not money they made. Money is just the by-product.
mgkimsal大约 12 年前
"In what possible reality can someone receive a million dollars and feel as though they got fucked?"<p>It's <i>all</i> relative. I've got friends living in $500k homes, and they still feel the need to keep up with the neighbors, at great expense. Keeping up with the Joneses is a sure way to be perpetually on edge.<p>But more to the point, a person in a company like that might get $1m, but knows the people around them got more for doing less, because they had a better boss, or knew someone who knew someone. I don't think the dollar amount specifically was what pissed that person off as much as knowing how much of a political game the whole thing is.
larsonf大约 12 年前
"In what possible reality can someone receive a million dollars and feel as though they got fucked?"<p>The reality where if you play for the Yankees you do not care if you beat the Jamestown Little League Allstars.
bravura大约 12 年前
Not exactly related, but nonetheless interesting:<p>A blog post by Doc Faustroll (@faustroll on Twitter) on the strain of being evil, including reference to Dick Fuld of Lehman<p>"Fuld at least had something of the physiognomy of the raptor, of the beast of prey, a kind of last remnant of aggressive character."<p><a href="http://congruenz.wordpress.com/2010/10/27/the-strain-of-being-evil/" rel="nofollow">http://congruenz.wordpress.com/2010/10/27/the-strain-of-bein...</a><p>On my wall hangs a Japanese carving<p>The mask of an evil demon, smeared with opulent gold<p>In sympathy I see –<p>Bulging veins on the forehead, expressing<p>the strain it is to be evil.<p>-Bertolt Brecht
biznickman大约 12 年前
"When you’d rather have someone shit on your face than go to work, it’s probably time to leave." What's unfortunate is that money is capable of convincing people to stay around in situations where they may even come close to such a state of mind.<p>While I'd like to say that I'd leave well before, everybody has a price, and it sounds like Wall Street is willing to pay it.
elango大约 12 年前
The government needs them, who else is going to buy the bonds issued by these Governments. For example, in India , only 19(as of Jan 12) fat ass financial companies are authorized to buy Indian Government bonds at primary market, and if few of them had to collapse, who would buy it (less competition -&#62; less demand -&#62; low value)
hkmurakami大约 12 年前
<i>&#62;What this bizarre reality really meant is that I couldn’t be myself.</i><p>Ugh.<p>In my experience, this is one of the most painful situations to be in (I've been in one myself, obviously). Pretending like you're someone who you're not (or worse yet, <i>feeling</i> that you have to dance this dance) is unexpectedly draining and demoralizing.
incision大约 12 年前
This reads a bit like a hyper-condensed version of Liar's Poker [1].<p>1: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/dp/039333869X" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/dp/039333869X</a>
leoh大约 12 年前
So awful, being a trader. It seems like they destroy themselves to destroy others.
growlerphone大约 12 年前
fascinating writeup
nazgulnarsil大约 12 年前
zero-sum all the things.
ttrreeww大约 12 年前
Welcome to modern day capitalism in America.