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Spain Is Beyond Doomed: Unemployment Charts

99 点作者 colinismyname大约 12 年前

16 条评论

lolcraft大约 12 年前
I don't know why journalists, when writing about economics, invariably pick the least adequate people to be interviewed. Some time ago, there was a feature about unemployment for college graduates in the US... which talked about a woman with a <i>dance</i> degree. Now it's about a fucking <i>cani</i> [1] whose major accomplishment in life is pasting some rubber and metal together, earning 1200 undeserved euros a month. Before that, he did the same thing, earning <i>2500€</i> -- that ridiculous salary is the reason his Social Security benefits are so high. For comparison, many engineers here consider themselves lucky for earning 1000€/month.<p>What I find missing is how entrepreneur-social culture in Spain is, basically, the least funny joke you'll hear in all Europe. 23.3% of GDP are black market operations. The European country with highest quantity of 500€ banknotes per briefcase. 10% unemployment for workers with tertiary education. Esperanza Aguirre wanting to exile the poor from Madrid (it's a long story). Widespread, also not very covert, abuse from employers. That sort of thing.<p>Fortunately, the country is sort of duct-taped together, so it all works fairly well in the end. Not at all as gloomy as pictured here.<p>[1] Like a chav, but Spaniard.
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mseebach大约 12 年前
The problem with stimulus spending in a place like Spain is that someone will have to lend them the money to spend. They either have to charge pretty high interest (which exacerbates Spain's already high deficit) or give a discount on the interest, such that it no longer reflects the risk the lender is taking. Most anti-austerity calls seem to suggest the latter, which basically amounts to redistribution from those countries (Germany, Netherlands et.al.) that did not enjoy the easy living during the boom years that Spain did.
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eksith大约 12 年前
The labor disparity between senior workers and young ones will lead to a lot more trouble. Irrational people take out their frustrations on the easiest target; irrational young people even more so.<p>I'm not sure if the article's doom and gloom is actually reflected in reality though. Most people are averse to letting society collapse (especially when they've had a history of it standing upright and stable for a long time).<p>Spain doesn't "just" need stimulus, it needs well guided and allocated stimulus or it will accomplish nothing.
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pfortuny大约 12 年前
I -Spaniard here living in Spain- tend not to believe those figures. Also:<p>1) Hiring is unbelievably costly due to Social Security. 2) Hence you tend to pay "in black". 3) People HAVE TO pay for the Soc Sec even though they do not earn enough for a living. At the very leas, 250 bucks per month whatever your earnings are. 4) We are spectacular liars at polls. Nobody in the black market will say he has a job.<p>So a grain of salt is required.<p>EDIT: although the outlook is really really bleak, there is no denying it.
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dade_大约 12 年前
It's called bankruptcy. I'd get on it. Austerity is going to start civil wars at this rate. Oh yeah, and next time, don't bail out banks run by sociopaths.
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pinaceae大约 12 年前
but if you actually go to spain, it does not look like somalia.<p>nasty secret - all those unemployed? work anyhow, "black" as we say in austria - unofficial, tax free. 50% youth unemployment? if all that were real, there would be open war. yet bars, stadiums, beaches are full.<p>the official economy is getting smaller, the unofficial one is growing.<p>as long as there are illegal immigrants from africa working the fields in spain and not spanish people, the economy is not that bad.<p>lies, damn lies and statistics.
raheemm大约 12 年前
It seems Iceland was in worse shape than Spain but they have managed to resolve their issues by revaluing their currency (similar to declaring bankruptcy?).<p>Why is Spain not able to do the same? I'm guessing it's because they are part of the EU and do not have their own currency?
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robryan大约 12 年前
What the is the precedent for austerity? What countries have used it successfully to get out of recession and improve unemployment?
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guelo大约 12 年前
Tell the Germans to fuck off, leave the Euro, pull an Argentina, watch the new peso exchange drop to 1000 to 1 Euro, get a flood of French and Germans hunting for bargains, which generates jobs. But make customs treat these tourists like shit, just for a little passive aggressive revenge.
yekko大约 12 年前
Nothing a little austerity can't fix, right? Time to fire more government workers.
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known大约 12 年前
<a href="http://www.lietaer.com/2010/03/the-worgl-experiment/" rel="nofollow">http://www.lietaer.com/2010/03/the-worgl-experiment/</a> will create millions of new jobs.
brianbreslin大约 12 年前
Semi off topic, but I'm going to Spain in June, anyone recommend anything startup related? People i should meet?
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superflit大约 12 年前
Why complain?<p>The Economy is only taking a 'siesta' (nap)..<p>These 'uptight' anglo-saxon coutries only think about work... (sarcasm)
anuraj大约 12 年前
Spain's problems are endemic; but most of Europe shows similar tendencies now - High level of entitlements, soaring deficits, lower cost efficiency and lumpen youth. Europe's post developmental problems need high level of innovation - but the youth do not seem particularly ready for it.
Tangaroa大约 12 年前
Long-term unemployment is happening in the US too: <a href="http://blogs.cfr.org/kahn/2013/04/17/our-long-term-unemployment-challenge-in-charts/" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.cfr.org/kahn/2013/04/17/our-long-term-unemploym...</a><p>Unemployment in the US is near 15% including U6, or near 23% if using pre-1994 counting methods: <a href="http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/unemployment-charts" rel="nofollow">http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/unemployment-chart...</a><p>(On that subject, I'm looking for work in the north SF bay area, Sonoma/Marin region)
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krugmanlol大约 12 年前
And we still think krugman is a god.
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