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Female Engineers: Too Fit For The Role

45 点作者 maxjaderberg大约 12 年前

14 条评论

walshemj大约 12 年前
For non UK readers Fit = "hot"<p>It might not be immediately clear but the article is talking about Civil Engineering which is a little unreconstructed when compared to IT.<p>And to progress to Chartered status for civil engineers you must have experience working on site bossing the navvies around.<p>When I worked for Dar Al Hadnasha (one of the big civil consultacies) we had to send out female engineers to Italy on an exchange as in the middle east it woudl have been impossible for a woman to go on site.
JamisonM大约 12 年前
Misogyny is, in my experience, a function of the power dynamic in a situation. As an engineer working on site the author is placed in a position of authority, but one with no direct power over the workers that she is encountering on site. She is at the same time both threatening, due to her high status, and powerless, because her influence over the work is indirect.<p>I find this behavior disgusting but it is, I feel, the answer to the question posed by the author: "But they must leave at some point and see wives/daughters/sisters/mothers/random women in the street.. Is the point less about novelty or even sex, and much more about straightforward intimidation?"<p>It is pretty much about intimidation and resentment by some and a group dynamic that forces others to play along or ignore the situation. I can't speak to the situation in Britain but in my part of the world I can say that things have improved substantially in the last 15 or so years but there is still a long way to go. Contrary to what anyone might tell you though, it is not a case of "boys will be boys" - the fact of the matter is that the management and foremen can change the culture if they want to, I have seen it happen, someone in charge just needs to have the resolve to say it won't be tolerated and actually act on it.
swombat大约 12 年前
Kind of puts the "sexism in tech" discussion in perspective. These guys make the Mad Men lot sound respectful.<p>Here's a simple way they could deal with that - create a new company (or even just a new department within the company), hire only civilised people, fire anyone who proves to be an uncivilised jerk, and slowly grow that department/company to take over the company/industry because it's not full of retards...
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Swizec大约 12 年前
I will probably get shunned to death for asking this, but I must ask.<p>The described behaviour of men in the article is pretty damn sexist, true. But how is it any different from how men in groups behave towards one another? Just replace all the sexist jokes with gay jokes or sissy jokes or just about any other type of jokes men direct at one another to establish pecking orders within groups.<p>Reading this, it doesn't feel so much like the terrible sexism it's portrayed as, but more like reading about a clash of cultures. This is how groups of men organise themselves. I understand it's jarring for women and that women do it differently, but still, all I see here are men treating a woman <i>exactly</i> like they treat other men.<p>By the sound of it, she's actually being accepted into the group. Hazing is always the first step.
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waterlion大约 12 年前
I know this is a little off-topic but I spent a while wondering why the article ("I'm not scared of you any more") bore no resemblance to the title ("Too fit for the role").<p>Turns out I dismissed the popup window automatically because 100% of popup windows are trying to sell social media experience extravaganzas and must be removed to see the actual content.<p>Turns out this blogging software shows its main content as a superimposed popup/lightbox thing.<p>So, if you end up reading the wrong article, perhaps you clicked close on the popup before it loaded.
jbcurtin2大约 12 年前
Anyone else notice that 'The Vagenda' has a lot of articles that are aimed at men being jerks? I think any man reading this site will not have an accurate understanding as to what any writer is trying to convey. - My opinion on this article: If you don't like it leave; there are plenty of establishments that'll treat you the way you want to be treated. You just have to go through all the BS to figure out what you like and it obviously isn't this.
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SZenith大约 12 年前
Sexism, bad. But let's keep our heads on straight here.<p>Just because someone treats you like shit, and you're a woman, doesn't mean it's sexism.<p>1. Maybe they treat her like shit because she's new, and the feminine stuff is just one reason to rag on her. If she was a tall guy, they'd probably make fun of that too.<p>2. Maybe they treat her like shit because, for some reason, despite all this, she hasn't actually asked them to stop -- just complained about it on the Internet<p>A lot of people will get angry at me for this, because sexism is a very real problem.<p>But not everything is fucking sexism.
digitalWestie大约 12 年前
Damn, I was just wondering about this the other day. I.e., how the software world compares to the engineering world. Seems my guesses were right in this case.
smurph大约 12 年前
"Get your rat out"? Seriously? That's got to be one of the most foul things I've ever heard. Real life is so much more disgusting than fiction.
angersock大约 12 年前
Yep. Sounds like shop talk--amazing how things at machine shops, oil rigs, and construction sites can be very similar at times. The women I know that work in any of those fields tend to either ignore it or join in--depending on their mood.<p>One wonders how things would be different were roles reversed--indeed, what sort of talk was common on factory floors during the world wars?
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antihero大约 12 年前
Sounds like a company of bellends.
michaelfeathers大约 12 年前
I'm trying to understand the "anthropomorphic chin" reference.
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ivanca大约 12 年前
You are a sexually attractive woman in a place where sexually attractive women are scarce. In almost any other context you would get substancial benefits for that like more promotions, job opportunities and more invitations to events than the average woman. But we will not see you complaining about that when it happens, don't we?
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omd大约 12 年前
Oh god, another article about gender equality on HN. You would have better luck selling Bieber tickets on a death metal forum.