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Ask PG: Can We Have An Honest Discussion Around Abusive Flagging On HN?

14 点作者 vaultboy21大约 12 年前
the below is a screengrab of http://news.ycombinator.com/news pages 1 - 3 (reformatted for continuous viewing), as of 13:00 EDT on Thursday / 16 May 2013. (highlighting and related commentary added).<p>i put this together as a high-level and informal analysis of post rank as a function of: time since submission (hours), upvotes (points), and the volume of comments posted. comparisons made relate to the post <i>Google to Microsoft: Remove your YouTube App from the Windows Phone Store</i> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5715168 (shown as highlighted in yellow; near the bottom..)<p>&#62; http://i.imgur.com/ZCR2hun.jpg<p>without knowing exactly how rank is determined, the highlighted post’s positioning appears to be significantly depressed relative to where it should be, based on examining similar posts (in terms of time since posting, points, and comments).<p>it has been mentioned that this <i>irregularity</i> is likely due to said post being atypically ‘flagged’ as spam. i have no data to back this up, but having seen similar behavior before, i believe this to be the case - and it appears to be a fairly common occurrence with posts that present a viewpoint counter to that of the majority. i believe this apparent abuse of the spam ‘flagging’ feature on HN is seriously detrimental to the community.<p>i think it would be beneficial if we could: (1) get a statement clarifying rules/good practices around ‘flagging’ posts, (2) some form of verification that abuse of this feature has been occurring, or evidence contradicting it, and (3) a discussion around potential changes to the system.. i personally believe keeping the feature in-place makes sense, to help deal with actual spam, but would recommend implementing some logic to help mitigate its abuse (such as a upvote/comment threshold that, if achieved, negates the effect of flags).

6 条评论

ColinWright大约 12 年前
For convenience, here's a link to the item in question:<p><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5715168" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5715168</a><p>And here's a history of its ranking, clearly showing flags or other penalizing behavior:<p><a href="http://hnrankings.info/5715168/" rel="nofollow">http://hnrankings.info/5715168/</a><p>I have no skin in this game, I didn't read the item in question, but I am interested in community dynamics.<p>Now I've had a brief look at it. Speaking purely for myself I find the ensuing thread a deeply unpleasant read. I don't care about the article in question, but I would flag the thread for its unpleasantness. I haven't, I won't, but I can see why others might feel that the entire argument is non-constructive, and that HN would be better off without it.<p>Just my opinion, of course, which is probably worth as much as you've paid for it.<p><i>Added in edit: We're recently learned that HN has a flame-war detector. I'd be unsurprised to learn that this tripped it.</i>
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DanBC大约 12 年前
You say that flagging is only for spam. It isn't. Flagging is for things that don't belong on HN.<p>Some things are obviously not suitable for HN. Somethings are obviously suitable for HN.<p>The tricky area is things that start off being suitable for HN, but then quickly collapse into mindless bickering.<p>There are some words that act as triggers to poor discussion. I proudly flag threads full of bickering. You should too.
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ScottWhigham大约 12 年前
<i>i believe this apparent abuse of the spam ‘flagging’ feature on HN is seriously detrimental to the community.</i><p>Like DanBC said, flagging is just for spam. And really - "abuse" is just hyperbole, isn't it? And while we're talking about hyperbole, your whole title is just flag-worthy for the dramatics alone.<p>If, for example, a post gets 447 upvotes, how many flags constitute "flagging abuse" in your mind? For something to get 447 upvotes means that (a) a large portion of the community saw the headline, and (b) a large portion of the community read the article (or at least part). What makes you think that it is "abuse" if a portion of said Group B decided to flag it as "off topic" or "bad journalism" (or whatever - I didn't flag it but, like others have said, I can see how and why some people would)?<p>You're acting as though flagging should have no weight on ranking. Why not make your case and put up a poll in a new thread? I'd suggest leaving out a fair bit of the dramatics you've created this post with though...
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brudgers大约 12 年前
HN is statefull. The software manages it with user input. Sometimes HN even gets managed at the REPL.<p>The system isn't designed to be perfectly fair. It's designed to work, not to be purely functional. Anyway, there is no objective measure of merit for any submission or comment.<p>As CollinWright says, he would have flagged the thread because of the tenor of the discussion. This is not flagging the article or killing the story. It's taking the discussion off the front page.
dangrossman大约 12 年前
Most things about Microsoft get flagged off (even a not-very-positive review of the Surface Pro tablet yesterday, which had lots of comments). Most every submission about the Marketplace Fairness Act ('internet sales tax') were also flagged numerous times despite no real bickering in the comments; some people really don't want it discussed at all for some reason.
vaultboy21大约 12 年前
..i posted this yesterday under a diferent account but it was apparently removed, almost immediately. hopefully the same doesn't happen again.<p>edit: for convenience, clickable link to image above <a href="http://i.imgur.com/ZCR2hun.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://i.imgur.com/ZCR2hun.jpg</a>
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