Let’s help Airbnb rebuild the bridge it just burned

Interesting to read about the story behind this. I recently tried to use Airbnb to get a last minute spot in Boston. The most annoying part of the ID process was that it acted like everything was cool, let me browse the site, let me make a reservation and put in my credit card info, and only <i>then</i> told me to give them tons of extra info before they would process the reservation.<p>I actually tried to go through their process and it was quite draconian. They ask for tons of stuff. Last 4 of SSN was one part, and they also asked questions about streets I lived on years ago, specifically, which county those streets are in. They must have a contract with someone who has a database of this kind of stuff.<p>But I got through that and was hung up on the last step, "Online ID", which requires a Facebook account (don't use it under my real last name), LinkedIn account (don't have one), or recording an introduction video (not possible while I'm sitting in a busy coffeeshop, also seemed like a pretty absurd ask). At this point I wanted to bail out but there was no "Cancel Reservation" button anywhere and they had my CC info hostage. So I had to close my whole account.<p>By the way, this was an account I had previously used to book an Airbnb place with no problems, and got a positive review from the guy. The surprise ID requirements struck me as manipulative, as if they knew if they'd asked for all this stuff <i>before</i> I booked a night, I wouldn't have used their site. So they pretended they were going to hook me up with a room, then sprung this out of nowhere.

Airbnb's concept, however wonderful it may be when it does work, is full of practical and legal holes which are now beginning to emerge.<p>The big question is: can Airbnb close those holes without significantly reducing the usefulness of their service?<p>I very much doubt that. Hospitality is an industry with a long history, lots of regulation and self-regulation (which is <i>not</i> just corrupt government protecting incumbents), and disrupting that means tackling a huge range of issues an liabilities which Airbnb heavily oversimplifies.<p>I expect an increase in regulatory intervention, horror-stories in the media, lawsuits and Airbnb becoming increasingly more bureaucratic and complex in an effort to handle that.

I love the usual weaselly worded "We apologize if our changes caused you distress" automated response to her second email.<p>That kind of corporate lingo is what I expect from soulless corporations.<p>[EDIT]<p>To make it clear. She offered lots of suggestions on what other services they could use and instead of a personal "Thanks for that, we will investigate" they gave her the brush-off with an obviously automated email.<p>Pretty shoddy customer relations.

1) Why should we help a company valued at over $1 billion dig itself out of a hole of its own making?<p>2) The primary complaint is that Verified ID reduces the number of bookings. This is only a concern to people who are using AirBnB illegally-i.e., as an unregistered hotel--and thus depend on volume. The people using AirBnB for its proper purpose--occasional temporary "guests"--are largely unaffected by this.

&#62; <i>As a host, it is up to me to choose who I allow in my home. I like that I can decide how many requirements to place on my guests. Should I choose to place strict requirements, I get more protection and probably fewer bookings. I like having the choice. Airbnb just took the choice away from me and I’m not happy about it.</i><p>Before we get into arguments about the validity of libertarianism...I think it shouldn't be shocking that when a company becomes large (with more at stake), they have to act in ways that will be overbearing in comparison to what they were before.<p>The quoted complaint above could easily apply to, let's say, the Apple iOS store, in which decisions are made <i>heavily</i> in favor of playing it safe and clean. I would like to argue that I'm wise enough to make my own choices about downloading immoral/unpleasant apps...and I'm entitled to make that argument. However, I can't argue that this...ahem, proactive policy prevents a great many shit-fests that might otherwise arise were it not in place. And I really can't dispute that Apple so far been wildly successful in the app marketplace.<p>Likewise, from Airbnb's perspective, I can see why they've made the calculation that proactively <i>preventing</i> scammers is overall, a good business decision. Because a few disasters from slightly foolish customers is enough to doom the entire ship.

In the middle of a recent trip, AirBnB asked me for more verification info to make a new reservation -- credit-report-based questions -- even though I'd already...<p>(1) been a well-reviewed AirBnB guest on multiple occasions;<p>(2) concluded transactions through them on more than one CC for those previous stays;<p>(3) linked my Facebook and LinkedIn profiles long ago.<p>Such verification questions can involve things like car loans from more than a decade ago, and on at least one of the questions I wasn't even sure I remembered the right answer.<p>Though I understand they have fraud concerns, I felt it kind of obnoxious to spring this new requirement on me in the middle of a trip, when I was depending on AirBnB working the same as before (and indeed as it had worked on my 1st AirBnB reservation of the same trip).<p>Had I been required to send a scan of some government ID, I'd have felt even more like they'd breached our prior understanding, without warning, at an inconvenient time.

Requiring users to record an "introduction video" is beyond parody; next step is probably to provide a front-and-back naked picture of yourself holding today's newspaper.<p>And you thought DHS was bad! And you thought "regulations" were bad! Let's get rid of it all! Let's <i>disrupt</i>!<p>But now, Facebook decides to police <i>jokes</i> according to vague claims by special-interest groups [1] and AirBnB requires its users to do a little dance for them before they can use their services.<p>Democracy has a lot of flaws, but constitutional rights and democratically voted laws, and a functioning judicial system, and well-run government agencies (I know, I know) are several orders of magnitude preferable to petty policies that grow in the mind of the average "community manager".<p>[1] <a href="https://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-safety/controversial-harmful-and-hateful-speech-on-facebook/574430655911054" rel="nofollow">https://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-safety/controversial...</a>

I am building a trust platform for p2p marketplaces (<a href="https://www.credport.org" rel="nofollow">https://www.credport.org</a>) and while there have been many great points mentioned in this thread, I'd like to chime in as well.<p>In general, most of the critics seem to say one of the two:<p>1. I'm obviously trustworthy, just look at me.<p>2. I want to have choice, I want to decide whether to host someone unverified or not.<p>What people need to realize about trust in p2p marketplaces is that trust is irrelevant, it's the experience that matters. At the end of the day, it matters whether you get what you wanted, and if you didn't, well fuck, it must be Airbnb's fault. It's never the users fault. Think about it.<p>On eBay, people get scammed every day. Does anyone say "well, that's just the users fault"? No, everyone says "eBay is full of scammers, I will never do it again". Same with the AppStores/Software Downloads. It's mostly the user's fault for downloading malicious software, but the platform always gets blamed.<p>So what you do in this case, and what Airbnb is doing is to "clean" the platform, cause the last thing you want is to have another Methlab incident or become the next eBay

Airbnb is an inherently international business and there is no way this is going to work for around the globe customers.<p>In many countries people don't use facebook. Linkedin is a joke anyway. Where they do they're not used to authing with it. Where they don't you may use local social networks but they're often anonymous or don't provide api as rich. There is also this huge problem with languages: how are you going to read korean id in hangeul? how are you going to link airbnb name in latin with social network name in cyrillic? do you seriously expect people to be able to record videos in english that can't then be used to ridicule that people (they're going to be public, right?)<p>In many cultures people are just averse of posting private information about them on the web.

Generally, I feel people are too cynical. And writing-off the Facebook and LinkedIn integration as merely a ploy for access to your social graph at first made my eyes roll.<p>But the truth is, there are a lot of things we do online that require real, meaningful identity verification. You put your SSN and DOB in and the computer gives you a series of multiple-choice questions from items on your credit report. People are used to them. They work.<p>And at the least, why not offer the credit report ID verification as the backup, perhaps alongside this video? Seems to me it would really cover their bases: The free spirits who would sooner die than submit to a credit check can produce a video. The professional, 2-million-miler, harvard-law types wouldn't flinch at an identity check that they've done every time they opened a credit card or bank account or many investment accounts or used the US Treasury or IRS systems or a credit monitoring product or, the list goes on. There's just a nominal cost associated with these, and unlike applications for credit they do not impact a persons credit score.<p>I'm not sold, but <i>maybe</i> there's something to the reliance on Facebook and LinkedIn afterall?

Ah my friends, this is what happens when you reach scale. It means you have to protect against every little black swan that comes along (mainly for PR reasons) which overburdens the rest of the white swans.<p>This reminds me of all of the companies trying to compete against PayPal, who tell themselves and customers that "We'll do it better this time I swear!". I can't wait until they try to reach the size of PayPal and realize their whole business model is based solely on fraud prevention. Something not easily, dare I say possibly, solved by any algorithm.<p>This is also why I like 37Signals, since they let their customers outgrow their software. For every project manager that says "ugh basecamp doesnt do this, I need something else", 37Signals quietly says "see ya later, you'll be back in a year!"

Seems to me the bigger issue here is HOW they implemented this, not WHY they implemented it.<p>Yes, some people are asking that they personally be allowed to take the risk of hosting unverified people. As AirBNB continues to grow, I understand and agree why they won't let you do it - more cases of drug parties or robberies could ruin their business, and your business isn't worth as much to them as their business.<p>But requiring (if I understand it correctly) one of Facebook, LinkedIn, or a video? Telling you this ~80% of the way through a booking process? Implementing it with no notification (so people currently on holidays suddenly bump into the requirements)? These are the bigger issue.<p>I doubt they will cancel the current implementation plan in order to rethink a new one. But improving upon it - in particular with additional ways to verify identity - seems important.

No matter what you do, there's always going to be complaints. Verified ID is a seriously good idea. I would definitely feel safer hosting verified people. Of course, they might still be horrible guests, but that will be their last visit with any AirBnb host.

Wow, I was planning to use them for the first time for a vacation in a few weeks. No way in hell they're getting my business now. Way more invasive than a hotel.<p>A video? Who seriously thought that this was a good idea?

"Quit trying to mine data under the guise of trust." A commenter to the original AirBnB announcement.<p>So true and happens all the time.

Sounds like the process Paypal have been using for a while. I recall having to send a scan of my passport, drivers licence and Visa card to them a while back to prove I am not a money launderer and using the service for legitimate purposes. While intrusive I am more inclined to trust Paypal than Airbnb for a couple of reasons. One of those being Paypal have been around longer, they've established a rapport and two, I either comply or lose any funds I have in my Paypal account and make it hard for others to send me money in the future.<p>These kinds of processes scare me mostly from a safety point of view, but also from a trust point of view. How do I know the person verifying my credentials on the other end isn't secretly funnelling my documentation off to a nefarious third party using it to get a loan in my name or steal my identity to commit a crime? This has trouble written all over it, surely there is another way? The step requiring LinkedIn or Facebook is just ridiculous, what if you don't use any of those services?<p>If a company like Airbnb wants to dig themselves a hole, why should it be up to us to help them get out of it? I won't be using the service any more because of these changes and I assume others won't either.

My question: What exactly is AirB&#38;B trying to solve for here? Is it safety for the host? Legal requirements? Payment fraud and chargebacks?<p>As mentioned in the article, it feels like increased verification requirements should be an option available to to the host rather than a universal requirement.<p>One important lesson learned: no one wants to record a brief video as a step of any verification process.

I objected when a roommate wanted to rent out our living room on Airbnb. I realize that the probability is extremely low that we'd end up with a deranged lunatic in our house. But for me, that tiny possibility (and more so the irrational stress that accompanies it) far outweighs the benefit making a few extra bucks on the side.<p>So would I reconsider using Airbnb now that they have Verified IDs? Probably not. The root of the issue is that I don't want strangers in my house while I'm asleep. Even if Airbnb has their info on file, they're still strangers to me.<p>This move likely alienates many of their core users, while offering no appeal to non-users like me. Perhaps there is another segment this appeals to -- users who are concerned about the possibility of petty crime, and who feel this would be a deterrent or would aid with legal recourse?

&#62; Banks lose customer data all the time and they have some of the most stringent standards possible<p>Tell that to my maximum 6 digit, no special characters bank web login pin.

Am I the only person who thinks all of these people are overreacting?

Wow... what on earth are they thinking? And what on earth are some people who have commented thinking, to support this?<p>I go to hotels, hostels, couch-surf, etc; I know people who rent properties with varying degrees of seriousness and involvement, and couch-surfing hosts. I interact with people who do these things on every continent. Airbnb is ridiculously out of line; it's requiring more than authoritarian governments do, much less any of its competition.

It's already a common practice in Russia to ask for ID during check-in. Why not ask all hosts to do it, it will have less friction for guests.<p>Lately, my Russian friend was trying to do a last minute reservation via Airbnb and they asked for verification. Russian users do not have facebook, they use vk.com, and instead of linkedin they have moikrug.ru. So she had to use a local alternative (sutochno.ru). Lost money for Airbnb.

I'm just waiting for the first AirBnB user that declines to leave the rental property. Eviction in some places is a really hard and long process.

What I don't get is how is a video supposed to verify anything? Why did they pick loyal customers to do the verification? It would be more comprehensible if they required it from new customers. And lastly, why don't they use a real id confirmation service. Where I live we can go to the local post office, show some ID and that's it. No sending personal data anywhere.

I think AirBnB has every right to ask its users to verify their identity in some way. It just so happens, the methods they chose were maybe not the best options for their UX.<p>I mean, I don't see how you can go half way on this. Leaving the choice up to the host doesn't protect anyone. It's easy to say "hey, I don't want to bother with this.", but the minute something DOES go wrong, who are they going to blame? AirBnB.<p>They have to cover their ass, simple as that. It sucks, but we live in a litigious society that loves to transfer blame.<p>If you were in a position where you had to make a tough choice and disappoint some people to protect your family(or company), you'd do it too.<p>As far as data mining goes... what's new? Are there any massive scale online businesses that aren't looking for new ways to mine their users for marketing and business data? I don't like it either, but I can't say I didn't expect it.

Deja vu when reading the Airbnb reply. Did they really repeat a paragraph, or is that an error in the blog post?

A big concern of mine is that this verification process does not seem inclusive to transgender people. Obviously the official documentation of these people would not necessarily match their online profiles , or in case of video their appearance. Thoughts?

Hey everyone, I'm one of the engineers who worked on Verified ID. I'm going to keep reading all the comments people leave, but rather than respond to all of them on here, I've written up some of my thoughts on our blog: <a href="http://nerds.airbnb.com/verified-id/" rel="nofollow">http://nerds.airbnb.com/verified-id/</a><p>I'd just like to stress that this doesn't address all the issues brought up, since some of them require more time, but I'm happy to answer more questions if you leave a comment on my post.

I think i was an involuntary early adopter of this process, my experience was that the ID upload kept failing and then broke the connection to my linkedin and facebook accounts. Support wasn't able to help, beyond suggesting I make a video.<p><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5710284" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5710284</a>

Inevitable as a company get bigger it likes bureaucracy more and wants to cover its ass over being sued for bad experiences.<p>We all hate Paypal for its overofficcious moneylaundering ID requests which, should its dBs be compromised could easily screw the finances of millions. Do we really want to give these people IDs?

Wow, this could be interesting. Scaling this across the world, reliably verifying anybody in the world, seems like an extremely hard problem, especially with the restraint that people can't just walk away.

Anyone else surprised at the fact that this poor UX is happening at a company and founding team that pride themselves in their design roots? Wtf.

I don't know much personally about airbnb.<p>I wonder how many bad incidents airbnb has facilitated? Searching for "airbnb robberies" seems to point to only one incident (San Francisco) where the victim blogged about it.<p>But generally we shouldn't expect to hear about crimes facilitated by airbnb. Neither the cops nor the victims have an incentive to publicize it.<p>airbnb may have paid out a lot in hush money and settlements.<p>So, while this new identity scheme is unwelcome and intrusive, it may be the only way forward for airbnb.

Bankruptcy is normal in a free market. Let's let Airbnb disappear and make room for better companies.