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NSA leaker is a patriot, not a traitor

1268 点作者 gridscomputing将近 12 年前

42 条评论

guelo将近 12 年前
We don't need an NSA or CIA or any other spy agency. I know I'm an extremist on government secrets, but I think there should be none. Nothing should be outside the reach of a FOIA request. In my ideal world all government officials' documents and emails would be made publicly accesible in real time, they're working for us. Any exception or loophole to transparency gets abused, every time. If that makes it harder to conduct wars or espionage, well too bad. If you remember from the game Civilization, democracy is not a good system for a warmongering state. And that's a good thing.
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neltnerb将近 12 年前
I find this kind of thing particularly interesting because I am the same age as Snowden.<p>For reference, 9&#x2F;11 is one of the defining events of my adult life. It happened during freshman physics lecture on my second week of classes at MIT. I considered joining the military, I protested in the streets against the war in Iraq. I remember the Patriot act being passed very well, and remember wishing people could see how shortsighted it was at the time. There is a particularly clarity (<i>cough</i> naivete) that comes with being 18 years old.<p>I feel like people who are much older than me remember previous major government corruption issues like Iran-Contra which I was only three years old for.<p>I feel like people who are much younger than me don&#x27;t have any frame of reference for a time when surveillance wasn&#x27;t the assumed state of affairs.<p>So, this fellow is particularly interesting to me because it seems like he, like me, has had his perspective on what the USA is defined by 9&#x2F;11, the Patriot Act, the Afghanistan and Iraq not-wars, and a financial collapse.<p>I don&#x27;t know that I really have a point; these issues are so multifaceted that I can&#x27;t really consider them without being overwhelmed.<p>I do hope that this combined with the IRS scandal and the phone taps on reporters will push the electorate in a more libertarian direction. But I&#x27;m not counting on it, people are incredibly selfish in practice and vote for their perceived short-term interests even when their interests violate the liberties of others. That seems to in this culture just be standard practice, and if that&#x27;s part of the culture I don&#x27;t think things are going to go anywhere good.
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freerobby将近 12 年前
&quot;Is Snowden a hero or a traitor? Stay tuned if you can only hold one simplistic juvenile idea in your head at a time.&quot;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;pourmecoffee&#x2F;status&#x2F;344202042019045377" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;pourmecoffee&#x2F;status&#x2F;344202042019045377</a>
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brown9-2将近 12 年前
I wish everyone would wait more than 24 hours before drawing such concrete conclusions. We barely know that much of the story here yet, and I imagine a lot more of it is going to come out in the next few days (such as his true location, more about his career in the IC, etc.).<p>In the past there have been dissidents like this where it turned out years later that a foreign intelligence service was behind them the whole time (<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Martin_and_Mitchell_defection" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Martin_and_Mitchell_defection</a>).<p>I&#x27;m not saying that is the case here, but this news cycle is making everyone crazy - just think that we&#x27;ve known this guy&#x27;s name for only approximately 24 hours.
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jmduke将近 12 年前
46 points in fifteen minutes and not a single comment? This NSA issue is seeming less and less like a discussion topic and more like a echo chamber, despite the rampant lack of information on all sides of the event.
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skwirl将近 12 年前
Could the media please make an effort not to write articles primarily responding to tweets? This is barely one step above writing articles responding to Youtube comments (please don&#x27;t get any ideas). You&#x27;ll find whatever crap you want to find on Twitter. There should be plenty of actual thought out and (intentionally) publicly published opinions longer than 140 characters out there to reply to. It brings your article down in my eyes when you respond to tweets of random private individuals.<p>I know these people are making public tweets, but ultimately they are not public figures and scouring twitter for their tweets and then exposing them to legions of your like minded followers for public evisceration seems... unprofessional.
u2328将近 12 年前
I love the government&#x27;s response here. &quot;Sure, we can have a debate about state surveillance, but the guy that forced this debate IS A NO GOOD DIRTY TRAITOR!&quot;
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alan_cx将近 12 年前
Neither word apply.<p>&quot;Patriot&quot;, to me, suggests a unquestioning loyalty, lack of thought or perspective. &quot;Traitor&quot; suggests selling out both government and people to a foreign enemy.<p>Both are too broad, blunt, and loaded to describe anything useful.<p>What this man did was expose the government for the sake of the very people the government are supposed to answer to.<p>The problem his the the huge disconnect between government and the population.
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lmg643将近 12 年前
I&#x27;m surprised we haven&#x27;t seen more discussion of NSA leaker as a potential foreign intelligence coup. Think of the timing, right before a summit with China. And he defects to Hong Kong. Not to get too nutty here, but its worth considering. Arguably our government did all this to try and protect us and here we are going ballistic - what if the leak was a setup to shatter our negotiating leverage? Lesser of two evils kind of thing.
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dllthomas将近 12 年前
<i>&#x27;[T]he word &quot;pardon&quot; is trouncing &quot;extradition&quot;&#x27;</i><p>To be fair, I think more people <i>know</i> the word &quot;pardon&quot; than the word &quot;extradition&quot;...
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michaelwww将近 12 年前
Does anyone else find it ironic that they couldn&#x27;t detect Snowdon communicating with Glenn Greenwald and Laura Poitras?
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tn13将近 12 年前
The whole idea of having democracy is that people should be able to throw out the people in power in case they make decisions that don&#x27;t go well with the majority.<p>I don&#x27;t have much problem in Government keeping phone records (I don&#x27;t use a cellphone any way) but I do have a problem they doing this without telling me. NSA leaker has done the right thing. He must be hailed as a hero.
trotsky将近 12 年前
It&#x27;s true, but at least an older generation sees any kind of out of band disclosure as a fundamental attack on their views ob punishment. My father, for exmaple, recently retired but still works in the intelligence community. He bloody _hates_ all of the bulk surveillance, and is very careful about what he publishes on the internet.<p>He routinely complains that current executive orders vis-aa-vis afgan tactics go too far, and never believed iraq made sense excpet to jr.<p>but once somoone has dropped TS&#x2F;NOFORN docs all over, he&#x27;ll never give the guy even one bit of respect. Instead (and just like manning) he&#x27;s quite riled up about how such a breech (even though he ws shocked and upset to read the lengths of data being hoovered) benefitted none of us. And yet having an official reference for things I&#x27;d be prone to rail on after a handful of drinks does us all good. Before the unfortunate listened would have to nod pollitely and meekly suggest, well I&#x27;m sur they&#x27;re jusy looking out for us.<p>I doubt many will end up seeing iy that way.
radley将近 12 年前
To call him a whistleblower would presume wrongdoing.<p>The govt can&#x27;t admit to wrongdoing, so they have to use the word traitor.
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dean将近 12 年前
Just that I would point out that Peter King (R-New York) has supported terrorist organizations himself, namely the Irish Republican Army.<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Peter_T._King#Support_for_the_IRA" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Peter_T._King#Support_for_the_I...</a><p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thedailyshow.com&#x2F;watch&#x2F;thu-march-10-2011&#x2F;radical-muslim-hearings" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thedailyshow.com&#x2F;watch&#x2F;thu-march-10-2011&#x2F;radical-...</a>
asperous将近 12 年前
I dislike how the focus is on Snowden now, and not on fixing the problem.
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msandford将近 12 年前
Is it just me, or does it seem like this guy probably isn&#x27;t holed up in Hong Kong but elsewhere? I really hope this guy is smart enough to not actually advertise where in the world he actually is to a bunch of people that would likely have no problems disappearing him. I really hope he&#x27;s already in Iceland.
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MrQuincle将近 12 年前
I know one thing and that is that I would not play the role of whistleblower and it is exactly because I do not care how much the US is spying as being someone from another country. So, I can only conclude that this makes him a patriot from my point of view, because why would he risk his job, etc.!?
robotjosh将近 12 年前
Why does everyone assume China is doing industrial espionage, but nobody imagines PRISM is being used for that. If a low level employee has such access, the only question is how many people are using this to cheat the stock market? Are there trading algorithms that have access to PRISM?
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quizotic将近 12 年前
1. A few weeks ago, President Obama said he would discuss the issue of cyber-espionage during his meeting with the Chinese leader, Xi Jinping.<p>2. At about the time of their meeting, two separate stories of massive US Govt surveillance of its own citizens hits the press.<p>3. The individual who leaked the PRISM story is now allegedly in Hong Kong, his whereabouts unknown.<p>Encrypt that.
nano111将近 12 年前
Although I don&#x27;t think this petition should be hosted by the government, here it is: Pardon Edward Snowden -&gt; <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;petitions.whitehouse.gov&#x2F;petition&#x2F;pardon-edward-snowden&#x2F;Dp03vGYD" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;petitions.whitehouse.gov&#x2F;petition&#x2F;pardon-edward-snow...</a>
bomatson将近 12 年前
He is a patriot, we are all responsible if he is wrongly prosecuted.<p>How long until they start committing citizens Judge Dredd style?
electric_u将近 12 年前
Physical security (as it relates to freedom) does not have to be provided. If I have a gun and an armored car then I have a significant amount of physical security regardless of any rules. If I have a bunch of rules but I am stuck in a dark alley with a thug then I have neither security nor freedom.
m52go将近 12 年前
It&#x27;s very simple, really. I&#x27;m sure most of you have heard this before and know who said it:<p><i>Truth is treason in the empire of lies.</i><p>It just so happens that the people are hidden in bunkers of truth while their government is in denial inside the empire of lies.<p>It&#x27;s time to set the record straight.
a3n将近 12 年前
Traitor or patriot is not defined by the current crowd in office, or by whether you support the current questionable policies.<p>A patriot is someone who consistently defends the constitution, which every one of those clowns took an oath to do.<p>L&#x27;État n&#x27;est pas eux.
bomatson将近 12 年前
He is a patriot, and we are all responsible if he is wrongly persecuted
alphagen将近 12 年前
I bet Congress would be completely up in arms if the government was secretly keeping track of gun purchases. It&#x27;s interesting how much representatives care about some rights over others.
sigzero将近 12 年前
I have not heard &quot;traitor&quot; ascribed to him. What he did was certainly illegal, whether you agree with what he did or not. If he gets extradited, he will go to jail.
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RexRollman将近 12 年前
I agree with the sentiment but those responsible won&#x27;t. They can&#x27;t, because to do so would be an admission that what they were doing was wrong.
dnautics将近 12 年前
worth reading a counterpoint article (which I happen to disagree with):<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.newyorker.com&#x2F;online&#x2F;blogs&#x2F;comment&#x2F;2013&#x2F;06&#x2F;edward-snowden-nsa-leaker-is-no-hero.html?mbid=social_retweet" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.newyorker.com&#x2F;online&#x2F;blogs&#x2F;comment&#x2F;2013&#x2F;06&#x2F;edward...</a>
gummydude将近 12 年前
NSA just a cover up for S.H.I.E.L.D. the international espionage agency watching all of us around the world. :(
photorized将近 12 年前
Last I checked, &#x27;hero&#x27; mentions were outnumbering &#x27;traitor&#x27; mentions on Twitter 2 to 1.
guscost将近 12 年前
Tell that to Dianne Feinstein.
_nato_将近 12 年前
logged into HN for the first time in a _long_ while just to up this.
geldedus将近 12 年前
given the huge brainwashing, I&#x27;m not surprised
wallacrw将近 12 年前
Hodor
insuffi将近 12 年前
You americans and your &quot;everyone is out to get us&quot; mentality is laughable. The fact of the matter is this - what the government has done is intrinsically unconstitutional. People calling the leaker a traitor try to back it up with the fact that he signed a non-disclosue agreement and that the law approved by a secret court says PRISM is constitutional.<p>Well isn&#x27;t this a nice, little euthyphro dillemma? If congress rules that PRISM is unconstitutional, Snowden is suddenly NOT a traiter anymore?<p>Another thing - constantly mentioning &quot;security&quot; as a reason for surveilling an entire state just proves how much americans think with their fear, instead of their brain. Not a lot of other countries have this problem.<p>Lastly, by definition, U.s. is now a fascist state.<p>1.Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia<p>Check.<p>2.Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of &quot;need.<p>Check<p>3. Identification of Enemies&#x2F;Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists.<p>Check.<p>4.Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.<p>Check.<p>5.Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.<p>Check.<p>6. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.<p>Check<p>7. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business&#x2F;government relationship and power elite<p>Check.<p>8. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.<p>Check<p>The reason Snowden is hunted down is because he embarrassed the u.s. government. Not because he is a traitor, not because he aided Enemy(whoever that may be).<p>Stop watching the tv and absorbing the propaganda you&#x27;re fed, and you&#x27;ll realize much more.
godgod将近 12 年前
Edward Snowden is a hero. This is a criminal government. Innocent citizens of the world are now enemies of the US police state.
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godgod将近 12 年前
I&#x27;M MAD AS HELL...AND I&#x27;M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!!<p>“This administration also puts forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we provide. I will provide our intelligence and law enforcement agencies with the tools they need to track and take out the terrorists without undermining the Constitution and our freedom. That means no more illegal wiretapping of American citizens. No more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. No more tracking citizens who do nothing but protest a misguided war. No more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient. It is not who we are. It is not what is necessary to defeat the terrorists. The FISA Court works. The separation of powers works. Our Constitution works. We will again set an example for the world that the law is not subject to the whims of stubborn rulers and that justice is not arbitrary. This administration acts like violating civil liberties is the way to enhance our security. It is not. There are no short cuts to protecting America.” - Obama
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godgod将近 12 年前
Tell me he&#x27;s not a criminal liar after watching this.<p>Barack Obama: 10 Questions: Warrantless Wiretaps<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=B6fnfVJzZT4" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=B6fnfVJzZT4</a>
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godgod将近 12 年前
This applies today more than ever. Up vote if you agree.<p>First they came for the conservatives, and I didn&#x27;t speak out because I wasn&#x27;t a conservative.<p>Then they came for the tea party member, and I didn&#x27;t speak out because I wasn&#x27;t a tea party member.<p>Then they came for the Libertarians, and I didn&#x27;t speak out because I wasn&#x27;t a libertarian.<p>Then they came for the Jews, and I didn&#x27;t speak out because I wasn&#x27;t a Jew.<p>Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn&#x27;t speak out because I wasn&#x27;t a Catholic.<p>Then they came for the Christians, and I didn&#x27;t speak out because I wasn&#x27;t a Christian.<p>Then they came for the Gun Owner, and I didn&#x27;t speak out because I wasn&#x27;t a Gun Owner.<p>Then they came for the activists, and I didn&#x27;t speak out because I wasn&#x27;t a activist.<p>Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.
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suyash将近 12 年前
In my opinion, he is a Traitor just like Bradley Manning for jeopardizing National Security.
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