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Dutch secret service 'also has access to information from PRISM'

339 点作者 jeroen94704将近 12 年前

12 条评论

inoop将近 12 年前
Here&#x27;s an attempt at a quick translation for those interested. Note that &#x27;De Telegraaf&#x27; is a tabloid-y newspaper, and the Algemene Inlichten- en Veiligheidsdient (AIVD) is the Dutch secret service.<p>---<p>Dutch secret services also receive information from the United States&#x27; internet wiretapping program, PRISM. When the Algemene Inlichten- en Veiligheidsdient marks an American e-mail address as being suspect, within five minutes everything is known, said an AIVD agent this morning in De Telegraaf. According to the paper the agent was working for the department tasked with monitoring Muslim extremists.<p>According to the agent many companies are actively collaborating in giving access to their data. &#x27;All large commercial internet services are being forced to provide an application with which [secret] services can browse [their data]&#x27;. Together these applications make up the American secret service NSA&#x27;s program for collecting private internet data.<p>&#x27;EVERYTHING IS BEING SHARED BY SKYPE, GOOGLE, AND FACEBOOK&#x27;<p>According to the agent Skype refused for years to provide access [to their data], but since it has become property of Microsoft everything is said to be shared, as is the case with Google and Facebook. Last Saturday the leading men of both companies said not to be aware of the internet wiretapping program.<p>Dutch companies are said to cooperate willingly as well. &#x27;When a request comes in one is just given direct access to the data, everything on a silver platter.&#x27; When a company does not cooperate, an agent is &#x27;activated&#x27; that has access to the information at the company. &#x27;Within companies and organizations, everywhere there are agents that can be activated, who are waiting for an information request.&#x27;
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downandout将近 12 年前
Here&#x27;s an interesting thought (to me). Supposedly there is a law that forbids NSA from using PRISM to directly spy on Americans. Let&#x27;s imagine, for a brief, laughable moment, that this law is followed. It would be technically compliant with the law if the NSA could send a request to Dutch authorities, and ask that they send any information they have or can obtain on a US person. The Dutch have access to this system, and would know what the NSA is getting at, so the Dutch would query the system and send the info back. This could all be done via API in a matter of milliseconds.<p>The NSA could then tell their overseers that <i>they</i> have never used PRISM to spy on Americans, which would be technically true, while they would enjoy unfettered access to intelligence on US persons with absolutely no oversight or authorization from anyone. This seems to be one of only a few logical explanations for giving other countries access to the system.
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Fice将近 12 年前
Any government will do large-scale surveillance if they can. It&#x27;s been said a thousand times before: do not use centralized social networks, cloud services, proprietary software if you value your privacy and freedom. This may be inconvenient, but we can&#x27;t have freedom without paying its price. I had hard time explaining my friends and relatives why I am not on Facebook (or vk.com, which is more popular here in Russia) or why I would not use Skype, but at least I know that am not cooperating with those who are taking our freedom away.
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wwweston将近 12 年前
&gt;If a company does not cooperate, an agent &#x27;activated&#x27; who has access to the information of the company. &quot;Within businesses and institutions everywhere activate waiting for a request for information. Agents are&quot;<p>In other words: the problem may be as much the fact that personal data exists in the hands of third parties at all as it is that there&#x27;s any formal framework that enables law enforcement&#x2F;national security agencies to legally access it.
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adventured将近 12 年前
It seems clear that the post 9&#x2F;11 &quot;you&#x27;re either with us or you&#x27;re against us&quot; policy was directed primarily toward establishing a global, connected police state (at least as it pertains to surveillance &#x2F; privacy). The US needed everybody on board, 9&#x2F;11 was abused to serve that purpose.<p>At the time I just viewed it as generalized anti-terrorism, anti-Al Qaeda type coalition. In hindsight it seems comically obvious what they were really targeting.
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CurtMonash将近 12 年前
I wouldn&#x27;t take detailed technical claims from a Dutch tabloid very seriously. Even Glenn Greenwald, who likes to be meticulous with his facts and who has spent months working on this story, seems to have gotten some details wrong.<p>(Yes, I said Greenwald is meticulous with his facts, notwithstanding his extremist and not always well-supported OPINIONS. That&#x27;s one of the juxtapositions that makes him so interesting.)
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jrnkntl将近 12 年前
Maybe not &#x27;news&#x27;, but interesting since some of the founders of Kazaa also started Skype. I can understand their morale at first: &quot;Skype wouldn&#x27;t share any information at first with the agencies, but since it&#x27;s owned by Microsoft they have full access&quot;
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ohwp将近 12 年前
Note that The Telegraaf is one of the most unreliable newspapers in the Netherlands.<p>According to Larry Page Google does not give access to all your data within 5 minutes: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=5860313" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=5860313</a>
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ohwp将近 12 年前
Serious question: How do we know PRISM is real? The only source I could find is The Guardian and the PPT of the so called PRISM project.<p>Some facts:<p><pre><code> * The Guardian is the only source. * We don&#x27;t know how they verified the authenticity of the PPT. * We don&#x27;t know anything about Edward Snowden. * All companies &#x27;involved&#x27; never heard of PRISM and also don&#x27;t know how the NSA does gather user information without a warrant.</code></pre>
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timonv将近 12 年前
An interesting development, the Dutch minister of security refuses to expand on the details of the AIVD and NSA relationship, stating that it has to be discussed on an European level first.<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nrc.nl&#x2F;nieuws&#x2F;2013&#x2F;06&#x2F;11&#x2F;aivd-heeft-ook-toegang-tot-informatie-uit-prism&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nrc.nl&#x2F;nieuws&#x2F;2013&#x2F;06&#x2F;11&#x2F;aivd-heeft-ook-toegang-t...</a>
sgarbi将近 12 年前
When it says &quot;within five minutes all known&quot; does it mean that the ISP translates the IP address with the name of the person who signed the contract with the Provider?
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tech-no-logical将近 12 年前
our minister (Ivo Opstelten) has just said that he hasn&#x27;t had any complaints concerning prism.<p>probably because it was a secret... duh... the way our (as in netherlands and EU) politicians are responding to these issues are so laughable it makes me depressed.