NSA revelations only 'the tip of the iceberg,' says Dem lawmaker

257 点作者 shill将近 12 年前

19 条评论

ck2将近 12 年前

"if somebody else is going to step up"You're a freaking congressperson sworn to represent the people of the united states.If something bad is being done, it's YOUR responsibility to "step up" not someone else's.BTW what the hell is with the NSA calling it the "Black Star" - is that some sick joke about the death star destroying worlds? So the rebels took out the death star with the exhaust port - does that mean the Black Star can be taken offline by the A/C units?

评论 #5872915 未加载

mokus将近 12 年前

What concerns me most about this whole situation isn't even the surveillance, though I think that's pretty abhorrent. It's the fact that something so stupendous has been done without any kind of public debate - despite the fact that anyone with two brain cells to rub together can't help but see would at least be a strongly polarizing issue.From this article it sounds like there hasn't even been much of a secret debate. If they won't consult the people about such an explosive issue, the least they could do is consult their elected representatives. Instead, they just did it, and now they want to sweep it all under the rug and tell us "we thought really hard about it and we decided it was OK - and after all, TERR'ISTS!". I have a sinking feeling that it'll work, though, and that this debate will not really happen anyway since most people don't seem to care.

评论 #5872622 未加载

评论 #5872617 未加载

joeguilmette将近 12 年前

It sounds like this congressman is begging for another leak.I smell blood. And a republican president in 2016. It looks like this is going to be Obama's big theme for his second term. Like LBJ, he inherited a shitty situation and made it much worse, and thus lost out for credit on all of his domestic work.We'll see, but I don't see any easy out for Obama. Ironically the only thing saving him is that the conservatives really love these policies, and the liberals, who should be at his throat for this, really can't because he's part of their club. Lucky duck.

评论 #5872802 未加载

评论 #5872404 未加载

评论 #5872676 未加载

评论 #5873634 未加载

评论 #5872805 未加载

bambax将近 12 年前

> The briefing was meant to convince lawmakers that the surveillance programs are legal and necessary in fighting counterterrorismFirst, I don't think you want to fight counterterrorism, but, rather, terrorism?And second, what's with this business of "legal and necessary"? It doesn't matter if it's "necessary", it doesn't matter if it's really really super useful, it doesn't matter if it's very efficient. The only thing that matters -- that should matter, in a democracy -- is whether it's legal and constitutional.The moment you let "efficiency" step over legality you let the beast loose, and the results are drone killings and surveillance programs.Drone killings are a hundred million times worse than surveillance, BTW, and somehow make less of a scandal.

评论 #5873962 未加载

评论 #5873106 未加载

评论 #5873038 未加载

评论 #5874065 未加载

评论 #5873068 未加载

jessaustin将近 12 年前

If I had paid attention in junior high civics class, I might expect a member of Congress to correct egregious abuses of government power, once they had been admitted by the actual abusive government officials. As in, I might have thought she would take action, rather than obliquely wondering about who might step forward next. If she doesn't have the power to fix this, who the hell does?

评论 #5873404 未加载

评论 #5875401 未加载

walru将近 12 年前

I personally hope they out the amount of government paid shills on the internet and any documentation as to their directive, such as how they 'slide' topics off of popular social media sites or comment to quell a rising storm.To that end, when are we going to get some more reputable people in Washington? Why has it become the chore of the least of us to represent all of us? Where are all the upstanding citizens that these jobs should be filled with, rather than the lowest common denominator that's proliferated our house and senate to this day?I've run through all the possibilities I could think of, regarding solutions to this mess, and the one that seems to come closest to reality is that we need to start pushing for the formation of a new party. Only by the formation of a new group, who has not yet been subjugated by the money powers that be, will we be able to get out of this mess. These revelations are our best chance to get such an initiative started, as those in a position of power are either too cowardly or too bought to do so themselves.

评论 #5874384 未加载

评论 #5874386 未加载

ajays将近 12 年前

So while on the one hand Congress, NSA, etc. are denying what Snowden is claiming; on the other hand, they're calling him a traitor and guilty of treason.If he's lying, _how_ can he be guilty of "treason"? Don't you have to reveal some classified (and truthful) info to be guilty of treason?

评论 #5872401 未加载

评论 #5872514 未加载

LoganCale将近 12 年前

So while the White House and the NSA are saying the claims so far from Snowden are overblown and hyped up, Congress is saying there's far more going on than has even been reported yet.

评论 #5872478 未加载

tsotha将近 12 年前

If only we had an elected body with oversight authority and subpoena powers that could make sure three letter agencies don't step out of bounds.Nah, that's crazy.

wahsd将近 12 年前

Imagine if you had a meeting scheduled at a place and when you arrived with some unannounced parties it was already known who your compatriots were because of your last calls and proximity to those phones prior to arrival. Wouldn't that be crazy if that happened, just plain non-nonchalantly, without any kind of checks or restrictions or restraints.People are going to be lulled back into complacency by the same people who have exhibited their absolute lack of trustworthiness. There is something seriously wrong with the human condition as exhibited by the apparent inherent trust placed in those who one should trust least. If one is willing to lie to Congress with assurance of impunity, why would one ever tell the truth about anything to anyone.Hate to break it to people, America is under a dome of propaganda little different than that of most other autocratic regimes, we simply are far more sophisticated about it due to several unique circumstances. Ever wonder how one could believe the propaganda in dictatorial regimes of the past and present? Well, you are living it right now.

_k将近 12 年前

The Guardian interviewed Snowden for an entire week. We've seen 10 minutes of it.

Mordor将近 12 年前

Obama is at liberty to divulge all anytime - the only free man in the US. Perhaps he should resign?

评论 #5874055 未加载

Hitchhiker将近 12 年前

" Universal retention of provenance without commensurate universal commercial rights would lead to a police/ surveillance state. Universal commercial provenance can instead lead to a balanced future, where a middle class can thrive with proportional political clout, and where individuals can invent their own lives without being unduly manipulated by unseen operators of Siren Servers. " [1][1] - Lanier, Jaron (2013-03-07). Who Owns The Future?. Penguin Books Ltd. Kindle Edition.

EFruit将近 12 年前

>The briefing was meant to convince lawmakers that the surveillance programs are legal and necessary in fighting counterterrorismThe Government/NSA is now a terrorist group? Are they fighting themselves? Why not just use the secret surveillance system called PRISM to discover that the enemy has a secret surveillance system called PRISM?

gfunk911将近 12 年前

But according to Obama, everybody in Congress already knew everything

评论 #5875075 未加载

dear将近 12 年前

Snowden and reporters have been saying there will be more leaks over the next few weeks to months.

mtgx将近 12 年前

My guess:1) they are also listening to phone calls of Americans, despite what Obama said2) she may be referring to the fact that NSA can spy on Americans without probable cause a week before deciding whether to ask FISC for a general warrant or not, like Mike Arrington said [2]3) the "upstream" part of the slide [1] sounded very similar to that AT&T room from years ago, and they might be repeating that, with a slight twistSteve Gibson from TWiT's Security Now had a theory yesterday [3] that they may be doing something similar now (which is why they also called it "prism"/cable splitter), but this time instead of getting all the data indiscriminately, they get the data from where Google, Microsoft and others are hooking up with the cable providers. This way they know exactly where it came from, so then they can go and use NSL's and FISA orders to get that data on that individual from Google and Microsoft.[1] - <a href="http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/6/8/1370710424658/new-prism-slide-001.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/20...</a>[2] - <a href="http://uncrunched.com/2013/06/11/connecting-the-prism-dots-my-new-theory/" rel="nofollow">http://uncrunched.com/2013/06/11/connecting-the-prism-dots-m...</a>[3] watch around 00:58 - <a href="https://twit.cachefly.net/video/sn/sn0408/sn0408_h264m_1280x720_1872.mp4" rel="nofollow">https://twit.cachefly.net/video/sn/sn0408/sn0408_h264m_1280x...</a>

评论 #5873296 未加载

beloch将近 12 年前

The way Manning's trial has been handled and the way Snowdon's actions are being responded to make the truth obvious. There's a lot more shady business to be revealed and the U.S. government is scared as hell. They're absolutely desperate to discourage further would-be whistle-blowers. Obama just got caught in a rather public lie too. It doesn't sound like these Senators were briefed on PRISM before Tuesday even though Obama said, "every member of Congress has been briefed on this program". Honestly, if Americans will impeach a president for lying about his extra-curricular cigar-related activities, how can they let something like this slide?

评论 #5873911 未加载

progman将近 12 年前

Global surveillance with RFIDI heard rumors that many (if not all) citizens in the western world already have RFID chips in clothes, shoes, bags etc. so that everyone could be tracked right now.I think that's not just a rumor. The question is not whether they use it but how far they have come yet.RFID chips are almost invisible tiny low power circuits which send a unique digital code on request, and which work without battery via energy harvesting. RFID is the perfect tool for global surveillance.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFID" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFID</a>