TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Acquisition and maintenance of a band of minions

95 点作者 ericedge将近 12 年前

14 条评论

jmillikin将近 12 年前
For those who don&#x27;t regularly follow rachelbythebay.com, this post is a Google allegory. I disagree with a couple points.<p>First, Google really doesn&#x27;t care as much about education as people think they do. They do love experience. I never graduated high school, and was hired into an SRE position (= programmer writing large-scale sysadmin tools) based on previous work experience. Grades are only useful if you&#x27;ve got nothing else to show off.<p>Second, if you want employees to be loyal to a company with unusually good perks, taking them fresh out of school is a terrible approach. Many people working here indeed have no real idea what working at non-tech companies is like, and that means they assume every other company is like Google. I have heard stories of employees getting frustrated on some project, leaving to work at (e.g.) a bank or webdev shop, and not realizing until their first day that there&#x27;s no free food, or gym, or weekly heckling of the CEO. I used to work at a defense contractor, I know what it&#x27;s like being a programmer employed at a non-tech company, and I don&#x27;t want to ever go back.<p>(In other words, Google might get better retention by implementing Rumspringa)<p>Third, the proprietary parts aren&#x27;t as pervasive as the article portrays. Our Linux kernel has weird Google-specific interfaces, but they&#x27;re always in some stage of upstreaming and will eventually be in Linus&#x27;s trunk. Our RPC system uses the same protobuf rpc-stubs that are generated by the open-source protobuf compiler. Desktops and Laptops run stock {Ubuntu,Windows,MacOS} with a few extra binaries. MapReduce and BigTable were published and inspired dozens of open-source implementations. Many of our Python-based tools have web frontends written with Django. Many systems persist data in MySQL.<p>When Google engineers avoid particular in-fashion systems such as Rails or MongoDB or node.js, it&#x27;s not because we&#x27;re ignorant of them, it&#x27;s because we think they&#x27;re not good enough.
评论 #5889071 未加载
评论 #5889979 未加载
评论 #5889892 未加载
评论 #5889681 未加载
评论 #5889725 未加载
评论 #5889100 未加载
评论 #5888825 未加载
ender7将近 12 年前
Nit: I know we like to be all anti-intellectual here at HN, but Rachel&#x27;s claim that &quot;having a PhD&quot; correlates strongly with &quot;lacking the ability for independence of thought or action&quot; is pretty ridiculous. Undergraduate and masters programs may be fairly structured, but once you get into a PhD program you are shockingly, horrifyingly alone. Those without the ability to act, plan, or motivate themselves independently do not make it through the 4-8 year (depending on your domain) process. Very occasionally, you&#x27;ll find an advisor or a lab that will hold your hand through the entire multi-year process, but those experiences are a rarity.
评论 #5889005 未加载
评论 #5888912 未加载
评论 #5889823 未加载
sxp将近 12 年前
Disclaimer: I work for Google but the following is my personal opinion.<p>FWIW, the part about never deviating from the &quot;One True Way&quot; or the description of Google as &quot;a rigid environment with adherence to arbitrary guidelines&quot; is simply not true. One of the things that is brought up in the initial orientation is that Google is meant to be fault-tolerant and flexible across the board. From an engineering aspect this means that if a single server crashes due to bad code, the system should be flexible enough take steps to recover. From an employee aspect, if the employee isn&#x27;t happy with their job, they should be able to flexible enough to take steps to recover.<p>However, since Google doesn&#x27;t micromanage its employees, the employee might forget that this is an option and remain unhappy. In my case, I realized that I wasn&#x27;t happy with my position a few months after joining the company, remembered what I was told in orientation, talked to HR, and moved to a different position where I was much happier.<p>If I thought the rules were actually inflexible, then I would have stayed in my original position, got burned out, quit after a few months, and probably complained about the company to others. Google is flexible, but requires the person to actually take advantage of this flexibility.
评论 #5891117 未加载
philwelch将近 12 年前
As someone who&#x27;s never worked at Google, this blog post gives me the same kind of curious discomfort I used to have reading michaelochurch comments. Reading ex-Googlers denouncing Google feels a lot like watching a married couple fight. You know there&#x27;s a history and a relationship there, and one party feels the need to vent at the other, but there&#x27;s nothing to be gained by witnessing it from the outside.
评论 #5889223 未加载
评论 #5889737 未加载
评论 #5889452 未加载
throwawaykf将近 12 年前
Anecdotal evidence regarding the proprietary technology trap:<p>1. At another large (but not XXL) &quot;Internet&quot; company, none of the Google SREs have made the SRE hiring bar, precisely because half their answers to &quot;How would you solve problem XYZ?&quot; are &quot;Oh, I&#x27;d just use $ProprietaryTechnologyGHJ&quot;, to which the response is, &quot;Well, but we don&#x27;t have $ProprietaryTechnologyGHJ&quot;, to which the response is &quot;Uhhh...&quot;<p>2. Of the couple Google (non-SRE) software engineer interviewees I am directly aware of, nobody has made it through either, partially for similar reasons (reliance on opaque external services). To be fair, their other shortcomings were more significant.<p>3. One Googler that I know confided that they are terrified of leaving Google, because they wouldn&#x27;t (paraphrasing) &quot;know how to code in the outside world.&quot;<p>4. Yet another Googler I talked to said that their stack is unimaginably huge, and nobody knows how all of it works, which was (quoting) &quot;probably by design.&quot; Make of that what you will.
评论 #5891216 未加载
smurph将近 12 年前
In my experience, this is how the big defense contractors approach software. They will gravitate towards the most expensive proprietary tools in hopes that their engineers will pigeon hole themselves into that environment. I honestly had people tell me that I wasn&#x27;t allowed to use anything open source (even through the military uses open source all the time) and that ClearCase is the most dominant version control system in the software industry.
epochwolf将近 12 年前
In case anyone missed it, she&#x27;s talking about Google. :)
评论 #5888675 未加载
评论 #5888991 未加载
评论 #5888694 未加载
评论 #5888860 未加载
评论 #5889186 未加载
评论 #5888691 未加载
评论 #5888716 未加载
gyardley将近 12 年前
I wouldn&#x27;t use such a pejorative term, but if you want to employ &#x27;minions&#x27;, you don&#x27;t need to do anything particularly elaborate - just hire people who want to be minions. You can select for this in your interview process.<p>There&#x27;s plenty of people out there who want to be told what to do and don&#x27;t care to spend time thinking about the moral ramifications of their employment, including a great many skilled and experienced programmers. As long as they can choose <i>how</i> to implement what you want, they&#x27;ll happily implement what you want, collect their paychecks, and go home.<p>Of course, that means you&#x27;ll have to write extremely detailed specifications, which is a big pain in the ass. And you&#x27;ll be the only one trying to figure out whether your product is actually something people want, so you damn well better be right.
brudgers将近 12 年前
Proper minions are attracted by the prospect of wielding petty power in an arbitrary manner - a proper minion must enjoy being mean, otherwise, you&#x27;ll wind up with true piety rather than its pretence.<p>Minions don&#x27;t play hackysack unless they can exclude someone.
评论 #5889918 未加载
ChuckMcM将近 12 年前
Seems pretty far fetched, I mean can you imagine what ridiculous lengths you would have to go to in order to maintain the loyalty of the minions? I mean seriously if they woke up to the reality of their situation, who knows what would happen :-) Seems like a common problem explored in literature as well, minor discontent, then an awakening, and then failure as the evil empire fails under more and more egregious attempts to maintain order ...
andrewcooke将近 12 年前
i don&#x27;t think you need the last sentence, fwiw.<p>also, early on (before the backpacks and logos), talking about capturing them young reminded me of <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nsa.gov&#x2F;kids&#x2F;home.shtml" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nsa.gov&#x2F;kids&#x2F;home.shtml</a>
norswap将近 12 年前
What would the point of the band of minion be? To what (possibly evil) purpose will they be used?
评论 #5888968 未加载
overgard将近 12 年前
Maybe I&#x27;m crazy, but I didn&#x27;t see this as being specifically about google. It seems more like an illustration of how many modern corporations operate (a great one at that!)
Pitarou将近 12 年前
Up to the point where she started talking about Master&#x27;s degrees, I thought she was talking about Japan.