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Dear Mozilla, stop watching me

163 点作者 emilis_info将近 12 年前

14 条评论

sinak将近 12 年前
tl;dr: We built this site on a really tight time constraint, and had to use Blue State Digital to process emails and store personal data, hence the tracking codes.<p>I helped build stopwatching.us as part of the coalition of organizations and individuals in support, and thought I&#x27;d give a quick bit of insight into why the tracking stuff is in there.<p>When we came up with the idea for the site last Friday, we quickly realized that one of the trickiest parts to manage would be the privacy policies of the different organizations involved. There&#x27;s over 80 different partners, and about 6 different core organizations involved. Mozilla and EFF in particular have really stringent legal conditions and privacy policies for any sites they promote, and we needed to make sure we abided by them.<p>On Mozilla&#x27;s end we needed to have some way of collecting and storing emails and personal information that would get through their legal department quickly. Since they&#x27;ve used Blue State Digital in the past and screened both their technology and privacy policy, that was deemed the fastest way to make things work.<p>BSD includes things like the email tracking code automatically, and as far as I know there&#x27;s not an easy way to strip that stuff out. Hence the tracking stuff in the emails.
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nostromo将近 12 年前
I think we should learn to pick our battles.<p><i>Email itself is 100% insecure.</i> You should assume that 100% of your email is available to the intelligence community. (There&#x27;s a reason Petraeus never <i>sent</i> any email to his mistress. According to William Binney, the NSA keeps copies of all emails sent to or received in the US.) So, they already know this email was sent to you.<p><i>Stopwatching.us is going to present your signature to Congress anyway.</i> If you&#x27;re paranoid about the US government, it doesn&#x27;t make sense to sign the petition.<p>The only additional data they can receive from this innocent tracking code is that you read the letter (if you decided to display images) and that you clicked on a link (if you in-fact did).<p>The intelligence community could conceivably do a lot of terrible things with everyone&#x27;s phone records, everyone&#x27;s Facebook data, everyone&#x27;s Google searches... but if you want to remove measurement completely from the web, that&#x27;s a bridge too far.
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swombat将近 12 年前
Mozilla is effectively the only player in the browser space that I still feel I can trust not to have commercial motives to hoover up data about me. That&#x27;s why I&#x27;ve switched to Firefox since the NSA scandal started.<p>I think they could do worse, strategically, than take a strong, consistent stance throughout their product(s) and communications, to make Mozilla <i>the</i> browser and email client of choice for those who don&#x27;t want to leave a huge slimy trail of cookies and web bugs for anyone who&#x27;s interested to track.<p>Worth noting this is not saying that either Safari or Chrome are worse browsers in general, or that they have security holes to feed the NSA machine - but any piece of data that a US company has about you is a piece of data that could be passed to the NSA under a FISA order, or even a future law change a decade away from now.<p>The fewer of those pieces of data you create, the better, imho.
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emilis_info将近 12 年前
Author here.<p>My purpose with this post is <i>not</i> to expose Mozilla, but to show how deep many of us are in this business. I admit I am guilty of similar practices myself.<p>I think we should use this privacy crisis to stop and rethink what are we <i>gathering</i> about our users, how are we doing it, can we really guarantee their privacy in our countries and on technological platforms we use.<p>If you really care about your users, think before gathering any of their data. It may end up somewhere you or they do not want.
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QUFB将近 12 年前
It looks like Mozilla outsourced their tracking to a third party, Blue State Digital[1].<p><pre><code> $ host sendto.mozilla.org sendto.mozilla.org is an alias for secure-mozilla-1.bsdtools.com. secure-mozilla-1.bsdtools.com has address 66.151.230.193 </code></pre> [1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bluestatedigital.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bluestatedigital.com&#x2F;</a>
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reedloden将近 12 年前
Only the HTML version of the newsletter uses tracking links. If you want &quot;tracking-free&quot; e-mails from Mozilla, sign-up for the plain text version. See <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bugzilla.mozilla.org&#x2F;show_bug.cgi?id=772788" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bugzilla.mozilla.org&#x2F;show_bug.cgi?id=772788</a> for details. :)
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salman89将近 12 年前
Where do we draw the line as companies in terms of user data collection? Should we stop tracking our users entirely?<p>Government eavesdropping aside, I see the internet as just another form of communication. Anytime you talk to someone, you are entrusting them with whatever you are communicating to them. If you knew a friend doesn&#x27;t keep secrets well, you probably wouldn&#x27;t tell them any secrets. When Mozilla sends you that email with the tracking links, you are entrusting them with that data, and are hoping that the data leads to a better relationship between them and you or offers some mutual benefit.<p>What is different in internet communication is that it is hard for a user to determine what company is trustworthy and when that trust has been violated. Most users also simply don&#x27;t care when that trust has been violated - no one should like that their user data at some level is sold to advertisers by Facebook, but that won&#x27;t stop them from using it (I myself am guilty of this).<p>Should tech companies not collect user data in the fear that a 3rd party may one day steal that data? Or should they not collect user data for some other reason?
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jmilkbal将近 12 年前
Mozilla observing the effectiveness of their campaign is not the same as building a complete profile on you. This is quite different from using a phone with Android or iOS or using Chrome whose primary goals are such. Be safe out there, use Mozilla products and have a little faith. Mozilla is the only mainstream force for good in its area.
SunboX将近 12 年前
&quot;Yes, saw. Is covered by opt in privacy policy and only used in aggregate, but looking into how we use and whether it&#x27;s DNTable.&quot;<p>Source: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;msurman&#x2F;status&#x2F;346564623539003393" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;msurman&#x2F;status&#x2F;346564623539003393</a>
GigabyteCoin将近 12 年前
Is Mozilla really &quot;watching&quot; you? Or perfecting their UI design flow? Considering they are one of the groups who created StopWatching.us I would imagine it&#x27;s the latter.<p>That tracking image is just trying to see how many people opened the email. And yes, they can tell you opened the email. So what?<p>The tracking of links is simply trying to gauge popularity for each link in the context of what the email was about.<p>The reason they&#x27;re watching you click things in the email you willingly signed up to receive, is because they want to keep you as a subscriber and not anger you by sending pointless emails that you never interact with.<p>Written from my Firefox browser.
zobzu将近 12 年前
I don&#x27;t think these sites are formally hosted or run by Mozilla. They probably just support the outcry &quot;lets asks govts to stop watching us&quot;<p>They certainly should think twice when they redirect a DNS overnight.
namank将近 12 年前
You&#x27;re wanting to do away with the whole concept of analytics.<p>Though I&#x27;ve often pondered over the implications, I&#x27;m not convinced that not gathering analytics is the solution here. This is not too far from the debate about AK-47 - would it be better if the gun had never been invented? How about nuclear power?<p>The point is that analytics are the way of the future, the differentiation lies in the purpose for which you leverage them.
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jasonlotito将近 12 年前
I wonder if I was the only amused by the OP&#x27;s use of Quantcast for tracking on that page, as well as allowing other 3rd parties like WordPress, Twitter, and IntenseDebate to track users as well.<p>The point is well and good, but those in glass houses should be careful when throwing stones.
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rasterizer将近 12 年前
You are overreacting, not to mention reaching the wrong conclusions from these NSA reports. The problem isn&#x27;t measurement, that is a cornerstone of engineering (and of everything else really), the problem is government overreach.<p>It&#x27;s almost as insane as that piece in Slate claiming that Hadoop is evil because it enabled large scale data analysis (<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.salon.com&#x2F;2013&#x2F;06&#x2F;14&#x2F;netflix_facebook_and_the_nsa_theyre_all_in_it_together" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.salon.com&#x2F;2013&#x2F;06&#x2F;14&#x2F;netflix_facebook_and_the_nsa...</a>). Technology is not the issue.<p>This newly found aversion to tracking and measurement is a stupid knee-jerk reaction to the news.
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