TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Jonathan Mayer Threatens To End “Do Not Track” Talks

85 点作者 shill将近 12 年前

15 条评论

handsomeransoms将近 12 年前
This is one of the worst pieces of tech&#x2F;business journalism I have ever had the misfortune to read. The overwhelming desire to paint Jonathan Mayer as David to the digital advertising industry&#x27;s Goliath completely distorts the reality of the negotiations and misrepresents how decisions about both code and policy are made at Mozilla. It is insulting to Mozilla, which has been working in good faith on these negotiations from the beginning, and to Mayer, who it patronizingly describes as &quot;just a volunteer who hangs around the offices of Mozilla.&quot;<p>It is also riddled with technical errors that suggest this journalist lacks even the basic understanding of technology that should be a prerequisite for working in this space.<p>This is all especially frustrating because, for some strange reason, these Business Insider pieces get a lot of traction online. This piece is on the HN front page at the moment, and their last, similarly asinine, piece about the proposal to block 3rd Party Cookies in Firefox has over 3,000 comments on Reddit. [1]<p>For a more accurate representation of the current state of Mayer&#x27;s 3rd party cookie blocking patch, read Brendan Eich&#x27;s recent post [2].<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;technology&#x2F;comments&#x2F;1dy74c&#x2F;jonathan_mayer_the_guy_who_just_turned_off_3rd&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;technology&#x2F;comments&#x2F;1dy74c&#x2F;jonathan_...</a> [2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;brendaneich.com&#x2F;2013&#x2F;05&#x2F;c-is-for-cookie&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;brendaneich.com&#x2F;2013&#x2F;05&#x2F;c-is-for-cookie&#x2F;</a>
评论 #5895678 未加载
评论 #5895485 未加载
评论 #5895636 未加载
评论 #5895747 未加载
rsync将近 12 年前
The more alarming piece of the article is this:<p>&quot;The move might also invite legislation from Congress.&quot;<p>So ... presumably a govt body would define what a web browser is, then define what tracking is, and then ... what ? Legislate browser code ?<p>Would wget need defaults built in for the code that comes over ? What if I &#x27;nc&#x27; to port 80 and redirect to a file ?<p>What is a &quot;web browser&quot; anyway ? What constitutes consumption of tracking codes ? Are there punishments involved ? Is the curl library at fault if it is misused in this government mandated way ?<p>Terrible, depressing, and predictable.
评论 #5895655 未加载
评论 #5895781 未加载
评论 #5895958 未加载
eggbrain将近 12 年前
This can only play out a few ways, right?<p>A) Firefox holds its ground, Advertisers hold their ground as well. Advertisers refuse to work with websites that support the version of Firefox with &quot;Do Not Track&quot;, unless the websites add some code to tell their visitors to use another browser&#x2F;refuse to load the site. This leads to two scenarios:<p>Ai) Developers agree and implement advertiser strategy, Firefox becomes an unreliable browsing experience, market share slips. Firefox possibly reverses position.<p>Aii) Developers refuse to implement advertiser strategy (by using either another ad partner or moving to a different monetization strategy), and advertisers finally reverse position.<p>B) Firefox holds its ground, advertisers cave: websites start seeing less revenue from ads as targeting isn&#x27;t as effective anymore, websites that get most of their money from ad revenue either start panicking and blocking Firefox users, or start putting up paywalls.<p>C) Firefox yields, advertisers get their way: pretty much the status quo.<p>D) Firefox yields, advertisers yield: some sort of compromise between the two camps.
评论 #5895354 未加载
评论 #5895501 未加载
评论 #5895368 未加载
nostromo将近 12 年前
I love the intention here -- but it seems obvious that this will just push advertisers to set up a subdomain that points to advertisers -- and advertisers will use ip address and&#x2F;or browser fingerprinting to track across domains.<p>... and we&#x27;ll end up right where we are today.
评论 #5895477 未加载
评论 #5895778 未加载
rosser将近 12 年前
The irony of this article appearing on Business Insider, a site which won&#x27;t work if you try to load it with Ghostery or AdBlock enabled, is rather piquant.<p>EDIT: Maybe I&#x27;m doing something wrong, but the only way I can get an article to show up on this site is to disable all plugins, and load it in an incognito window. Up-to-date Chrome on up-to-date Lion.
评论 #5895438 未加载
评论 #5896258 未加载
评论 #5895461 未加载
ChuckMcM将近 12 年前
There has been some talk that the reason Chrome stopped gaining share against IE and Firefox was because of the do-not-track situation. IE9 had it and then turned it back off by default, Firefox was the first to implement it and it is considering making it the default.<p>This is what I predict will happen, should Mozilla begin shipping with it turned on by default.<p>Advertisers will modify their contracts such that they pay $x if tracking is enabled on the browser and $y if it is not. $y will be much less than $x, perhaps 1&#x2F;10th the amount because the Advertiser will argue it is harder to detect and prevent fraud without the tracking cookies.<p>Web sites will then these do not track (DNT) sessions as &quot;low value&quot; sessions and will either refuse to display content, or force some difficult to subvert captcha movie watching thing with survey in order to establish the low fraud barrier and get the &#x27;good&#x27; price for ads.<p>The result will be that &#x27;free&#x27; web sites will become even more obnoxious and subscription sites where they actually reduce or eliminate the advertisements altogether will become more practical.
lifeisstillgood将近 12 年前
I have just never realised there are people like johnathon on our side out there. Thank you.<p>I also just realised that there are sites in the US, UK, Europe to watch and follow debates on each parliament, but the debates on the important workings of these groups seem to be sporadically reported, even here on HN.<p>Anyone want to help me setup a &quot;theyworkforyou&quot; for w3c working groups?<p>(I mean if congress rules how a browser should behave in the US, does it affect me here? If not then frankly these groups overrule each individual parliament in fairly significant ways )
hammerzeit将近 12 年前
I do think there&#x27;s something to the argument that any reasonable implementation of &quot;Do Not Track&quot; would just further entrench the companies who already have large consumer traffic (Google, Facebook, et al), by virtue of the substantial privileging of first-party cookies over third-party cookies at that point.<p>Now, you could argue, this is desirable -- after all, companies with large consumer brands have much more at risk in terms of doing unethical things with data (yes, I&#x27;m aware of the irony of saying that after the PRISM issue, but I think that only affirms my point). At the same time, does Google&#x2F;FB&#x2F;etc need any more help in dominating advertising than they already do?
nthitz将近 12 年前
Wikipedia says 85% of Mozilla&#x27;s revenue is from Google. Mayer&#x27;s moves are sure to ruffle some feathers at the search giant if they go through with it in Firefox.
评论 #5895344 未加载
thezilch将近 12 年前
Jonathan and Firefox have yet to explain how embedded modules like Disqus, Stripe, or similar are meant to go about their business and without resorting to the EverCookie-like tactics? Facebook or similar apps requiring stateful sessions? I guess we&#x27;ll all just setup 2nd party sub-domains for advertisers, or serve our ads off a Google domain (or &lt;insert entrenched advertiser&gt;).
tehwalrus将近 12 年前
As long as I&#x27;m still allowed to block 3rd party cookies with a few exceptions (like Disqus), I don&#x27;t really care.<p>If we (e.g. Mozilla, others, open web supporters) want to educate users about 3rd party cookies can&#x27;t we just create a new startup wizard or something, like the windows &quot;choose a browser&quot; popup?
fredsanford将近 12 年前
I would suggest that advertisers and their cronies stop acting like scumbags unless they want to be treated like scumbags.
chris_mahan将近 12 年前
Just block the cookies already, and allow the users to turn them back on on a per-site basis.
steveklabnik将近 12 年前
Doesn&#x27;t Apache not support DNT, so it&#x27;s my this lately moot anyway?
bokglobule将近 12 年前
It&#x27;s made me consider going back to Firefox from Chrome.