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Snowden: US hacks Chinese mobile phone companies, steals SMS data

286 点作者 teawithcarl将近 12 年前

18 条评论

scarmig将近 12 年前
I don&#x27;t understand why everyone thinks it&#x27;s terrible if a government surveils its own citizens but it&#x27;s totally a-ok if it does foreigners. Because if you think about the reflexivity of it all, that means that it&#x27;s a-ok if China surveils all American citizens and America all Chinese citizens. The only way that makes sense is if you think one government (America or China, depending on who you are) is privileged to violate the privacy rights of citizens of the other.<p>I would hope that Hacker News would be more cosmopolitan. So much of our work, especially, involves interacting with foreigners. If our government thinks that their communications with us deserve no protections because they&#x27;re some suspicious other, and their government thinks that our communications with them deserve no protections because we&#x27;re some suspicious other... then no one ends up with anything.<p>ETA: And when you think about it, that principle creates a giant loophole: country X surveils country Y&#x27;s populace, country Y surveils country X&#x27;s populace, and they have a mutual agreement to share data about each other&#x27;s dissidents. Just goes to show that if you undermine a universal right for even one person, that right disappears.
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cletus将近 12 年前
Snowden&#x27;s choice of Hong Kong as a hiding spot becomes more and more interesting. I suspect the timing of this particular revelation is timed deliberately just after the US files charges against him seeking his arrest by Hong Kong authorities.<p>A recent article suggested that China was already inclined to &quot;solve&quot; this problem (from a diplomatic and political standpoint) by doing what it does best: simply dragging its feet. This seems incredibly easy to do when the Hong Kong legal system is inclined to move slowly anyway, any extradition will go through a number of appeals and the process for applying for asylum is being revamped putting all such cases on hold (not that Snowden has applied for asylum yet).<p>It is an somewhere between widely suspected and an open secret that China engages in concerted intelligence efforts against the US government and US corporations. Many cyberattacks originate in China (and there is strong evidence that at least some are state-sponsored). And China is widely believed to have stolen nuclear secrets [1].<p>But this revelation goes the other way. I really can&#x27;t predict how China will take this. I suspect they&#x27;ll be more disinclined to hand Snowden over (or at least do it in any kind of timely fashion). To paraphrase Ned Flanders &quot;We&#x27;ve tried nothing and we&#x27;re all out of ideas!&quot;<p>Who knew in 2008 that during the Obama administration it may get to the point of people wishing for the good ol&#x27; days of George W. Bush? Well maybe not that far but it&#x27;s really not that far off. The war for intellectual property, Federal prosecutorial overreach (eg the Y12 &quot;terrorists&quot;, Aaron Swartz), the relentless pursuit of whistleblowers and the end-run around the Fourth Amendment are simply stunning, particularly from an allegedly Democratic administration.<p>[1]: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;1999&#x2F;03&#x2F;06&#x2F;world&#x2F;breach-los-alamos-special-report-china-stole-nuclear-secrets-for-bombs-us-aides.html?pagewanted=all" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;1999&#x2F;03&#x2F;06&#x2F;world&#x2F;breach-los-alamos-sp...</a>
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mtgx将近 12 年前
Not saying China is innocent, but this is why stuff like this needs to be transparent and the public needs to know about it, and if the government isn&#x27;t willing to make it public, then whistleblowers like Manning and Snowden need to make the public aware of it, no matter what &quot;laws&quot; they have to break to do it. But then it&#x27;s the public&#x27;s <i>responsibility</i> to protect them against the government, for doing them that service.<p>Because you have <i>no idea</i> what the government is doing in your name, and what kind of conflicts they are creating, and then &quot;all of the sudden&quot; you end up with another war on your hands, and the US government propaganda machine tells you it&#x27;s <i>their</i> fault and they are the aggressor against US, when in fact it could be the opposite, and the attack may simply be retaliation for USA&#x27;s own actions.
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contingencies将近 12 年前
As someone who, five years ago, tried to get commercial bulk SMS connectivity out of these same main Chinese mobile carriers (China Mobile and China Unicom), and watched them largely quash spammy SMS broadcasting with automatic SMSC service suspension after a certain threshold outbound rate, this is interesting. The guys I talked to inside of these carriers led me to believe their SMSCs were just a Linux box.<p>Also, SMSCs appear to be provincial entities rather than national ones, so these compromises are likely only in a subset of cities. (Further evidenced online, eg. <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.smsclist.com&#x2F;downloads&#x2F;default.txt" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.smsclist.com&#x2F;downloads&#x2F;default.txt</a>)<p>Note also that this article is poorly concluded: <i>US President Barack Obama says the NSA is not listening in on phone calls or reading emails unless legal requirements have been satisfied.</i> That&#x27;s apparently only for US citizens inside the US, IIRC.
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teawithcarl将近 12 年前
This story was published in HK only 5 minutes before this posting onto HN, by the only other journalist in direct contact with Snowden himself - Lana Lam.<p>SCMP is a top HK newspaper, and along with the Guardian, the primary publishing source for direct news from Snowden himself.
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skwirl将近 12 年前
&quot;And the former National Security Agency contractor claims he has the evidence to prove it.&quot;<p>Well... where is it?
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marcamillion将近 12 年前
ARGHHH....WHY WOULD HE DO THIS?<p>All he is doing is muddying the waters.<p>How can I claim to defend what he has done, if he is giving sensitive intelligence data to the CHINESE!!!!<p>He shouldn&#x27;t muddy the waters. Just keep it focused on how the USGov&#x27;t is taking away US civil liberties and privacy.<p>I mean...I understand why he is doing this - self preservation - but now he is looking more like a &quot;spy&quot; than a &quot;whistleblower&quot;.
Aloisius将近 12 年前
Oof. We&#x27;re moving quickly out of whistleblower territory and into actual espionage.
HarryHirsch将近 12 年前
This is all a bit reminiscent of Frederick Forsyth&#x27;s &quot;Fourth Protocol&quot;. A few words about the plot: the book is set in the early years of Margaret Thatcher&#x27;s tenure as Prime Minister, in the time of the Reagan Rearmament. Elements in the Politburo devise a secret plan to explode an atomic bomb near RAF Bentwaters, blame this on a malfunction of American nuclear ordnance and cause a leftist government to be elected and Britain to fall into the USSR&#x27;s sphere of influence. This plan was to be kept secret even from the KGB.<p>Both MI5 and KGB get wind of this, and they work in concert to stop it <i>while they remain enemies</i>, because either side feels that if it succeeded they would open Pandora&#x27;s box and have no institutional knowledge to deal with this new world.<p>It is my sincere hope that the world&#x27;s intelligence agencies have the institutional knowledge to deal with the widespread knowledge on spying on its own citizens.
johnrob将近 12 年前
The great firewall of China is seeming less totalitarian and more pragmatic. The US at least has to hack to get chinese SMS messages; allowing its users visit Facebook&#x2F;Gmail&#x2F;etc is like giving data away.
untog将近 12 年前
Excuse me if I am a little dubious of the South China Morning Post. According to the article, he gave them an exclusive interview 10 days ago that they are finally publishing now. Interesting that Snowden chose to completely ignore his contacts at the Guardian etc. for this.<p>Are there any other sources to back this up? Or evidence?
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thezach将近 12 年前
The USA use electrnoic surveilance on China... China uses electronic surveilance on the USA... its the nature of things.<p>Seriously, countries spy on countries and China sure is not innocent in hacking foreign countries.
microb将近 12 年前
Because of all this bad press, the US will rally around a fake-libertarian or Republican in 2016. Rinse, wash and repeat.
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general_failure将近 12 年前
Looks like he is bordering on treason. Be careful snowden.
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bayesianhorse将近 12 年前
Accusing China of human rights violations and large scale cyber warfare is going to get more difficult in the future...
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babesh将近 12 年前
Is it legal for a foreign government such as the UK to spy on Americans and then hand that data to the US and vice versa? I bet they are doing that.
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jusben1369将近 12 年前
Now he&#x27;s just becoming a tool.
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powertower将近 12 年前
What a disgusting circle-jerk of comments.<p>So far we have -<p>1. Only China should be able to hack and spy on other nations.<p>2. The USA should just leave everyone alone!<p>3. Ohh, and this guy is not committing treason and espionage by releasing things like this, he&#x27;s a freedom fighter. No more secrets!<p>Anyone else stopped reading HN these last couple of weeks?<p>I stopped right around when people were beginning to suggest that random government employees should be shot in protest, and as I looked as some of the posters names, I recognized a bunch of them.