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Statement from Edward Snowden in Moscow

954 点作者 mvbrasil将近 12 年前

44 条评论

tokenadult将近 12 年前
I&#x27;d really like to see Wikileaks devoting more of its time, energy, and fund-raising into breaking news about government-operated surveillance programs in the last two countries where Edward Snowden has been located, namely China and Russia. As an American citizen and voter, I&#x27;m still mulling over what I think should be the correct policy response to the revelations about NSA claims about NSA data-gathering programs, but I have deep ties to China as a speaker and reader of Chinese and a long-time student of the language, culture, and history of China, and I have similar connections, less thoroughly developed, to Russia. People everywhere just wanna be free. We ought to be hearing a lot more about all the various governmental data-gathering and surveillance programs, everywhere in the world, and of course we should also be learning more about the actions of private business corporations to gather data on all of us. That Wikileaks tells us much more about the United States federal government than about any of those other entities tells me something about Wikileaks, and perhaps tells me something favorable about the United States.<p>If you really want to be an idealistic but hard-headed freedom-fighter, mobilizing an effective popular movement for more freedom wherever you live, I suggest you read deeply in the publications of the Albert Einstein Institution,<p><a href="http://www.aeinstein.org/organizationsde07.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.aeinstein.org&#x2F;organizationsde07.html</a><p>remembering that the transition from dictatorship to democracy described in those publications is an actual historical process with recent examples around the world that we can all learn from.<p>AFTER EDIT: Good catch by the readers who noticed the non-American English in the Wikileaks press release here (mentioned in other comments in this thread). The press release kindly submitted here is plainly not Edward Snowden&#x27;s verbatim words, but more self-publicizing from Wikileaks.
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eblume将近 12 年前
It&#x27;s probably too late now, but I feel like it was a mistake not to release a public encryption key along with his initial effluence of records. I for one believe that this was written by Snowden, but it seems like an obvious use of some basic form of identity signing.<p>Edit: It now seems like there is some reasonable doubt that this notice was forged. I still remain confident this is no forgery, but the point I&#x27;d like to make is that there may in fact be an identity question -- and that is a problem with a technical solution that unfortunately seems not to have been leveraged.
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olefoo将近 12 年前
It&#x27;s almost as if he&#x27;s deliberately provoking the most rabid response possible from the United States Government.<p>Regardless of what happens to him; he is writing himself into the pages of history.<p>His actions have opened the possibility of Western Europe defecting from the US led coalition that has dominated world affairs for the past 70 years. Which is not a result anyone could have predicted.
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javajosh将近 12 年前
It occurs to me that there is a kind of deep hypocrisy for those who make the rules to claim that someone broke the rules. Rules require focus and diligence to apply, and they favor those that apply them regularly, vs those to whom they are applied.<p>I suspect that the Obama administration broke may of their own rules rushing through the a change in status that fast - a bureaucracy the size of the US doesn&#x27;t process anything quickly without breaking the rules.<p>The Russians are clearly using Snowden as a pawn, probably because Russia is threatened by people like Snowden just as much as the US is. Snowden threatens those who make the rules, and then apply them fully to others and not at all to themselves and their cohorts.<p>For the third time in my life (the first two courtesy Bush Jr.) I&#x27;m deeply ashamed of my government.
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abalone将近 12 年前
I&#x27;m not taking sides here but Snowden is wrong on the facts about passport revocation. It is perfectly within the established law to revoke the passports of fugitives with federal arrest warrants. It doesn&#x27;t make you a &quot;stateless person&quot; or &quot;exile&quot; you -- you&#x27;re still welcome to return voluntarily.<p>The relevant U.S. law is 22 CFR 51.70 and 51.72 <a href="http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-1999-title22-vol1/xml/CFR-1999-title22-vol1-sec51-70.xml" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gpo.gov&#x2F;fdsys&#x2F;pkg&#x2F;CFR-1999-title22-vol1&#x2F;xml&#x2F;CFR-1...</a><p>He does have a point that restricting travel does make it harder for you to seek asylum. But that&#x27;s nothing new.
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cletus将近 12 年前
There are several interesting aspects to this story.<p>The first is obviously the revelations about NSA &quot;overreach&quot;.<p>The second is that this guy could&#x27;ve remained hidden but he put his name behind the revelations rather than choosing the far safer path of being an &quot;anonymous source&quot;. This lends his revelations more credence and you have to respect the guy for standing by his convictions. Maybe he would&#x27;ve been found out had he stayed in the shadows but he certainly didn&#x27;t try to do that.<p>The third is that the US is very much two-faced here. It seems clear that the surveillance is being justified by a technical ruling to do with US vs foreign persons, a classified ruling no less. While this might be a fine legal argument, it doesn&#x27;t engender support amongst foreign powers when you tell them you have every right to spy on their citizens but oh, by the way, can you do us a solid and hand over that fugitive?<p>In what world does the US think they&#x27;ll get cooperation from anyone when they aren&#x27;t treated not even as equals but with simple decency? So the foreign policy apparatus resorts to bullying tactics.<p>The fourth is that both China and Russia were <i>blatantly</i> thumbing their noses at the US. I see no world in which Russia hands the guy over so the actions of the US have done little more than force a guy in possession of Top Secret information to be harboured by a rival. Congratulations on that statecraft, Obama, Biden and Kerry.<p>What&#x27;s more it&#x27;s made the US appear internationally weak.<p>The last is that the various players on Snowden&#x27;s side do seem to have screwed the pooch on this one by both issuing a letter of safe passage and not having some kind of contingency when the US did the predictable thing and revoked his passport. This could hardly have been an unprecedented move.<p>So good luck to you, Edward Snowden. I hope your sacrifice hasn&#x27;t been in vein. The optimist in me hopes that a future president will pardon you and otherwise reverse this self-destructive course the US is on.
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mpyne将近 12 年前
He&#x27;s not still complaining about his <i>passport</i>, is he? Did Assange tell him to say that too?<p>A passport means that the host nation is comfortable with the person traveling abroad. For what should be obvious reasons the U.S. would rather he be back home (to stand trial). Even if you disagree with everything the NSA has done or will do, he technically broke the law. If the U.S. considers itself to observe the rule of law, then they have to pursue him as much as they&#x27;d pursue anyone else.<p>The U.S. has stripped persons of their citizenship for things as mundane as fraud, so this is hardly a made-up case for Snowden.<p>In fact, it&#x27;s <i>so not made up</i> that there are existing procedures for when a passport may be revoked [1] [2]. Note that despite the foia_reading_room in the URL of [1], it is simply the U.S. Attorney&#x27;s Manual, which is accessible directly from <a href="http://www.justice.gov/usao/index.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.justice.gov&#x2F;usao&#x2F;index.html</a> .<p>[1] <a href="http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/15mcrm.htm#9-15.640" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.justice.gov&#x2F;usao&#x2F;eousa&#x2F;foia_reading_room&#x2F;usam&#x2F;tit...</a><p>[2] <a href="http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppi/info/info_870.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;travel.state.gov&#x2F;passport&#x2F;ppi&#x2F;info&#x2F;info_870.html</a><p>Edit: Also, since when did a conversation without an exchange of consideration or an agreement to perform certain actions become &quot;wheeling and <i>dealing</i>&quot;? This is the kind of stuff that has turned me off from Assange a long time ago; he&#x27;s just as willing to distort as a government, as long as it suits his purpose.
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bobwaycott将近 12 年前
I find it most interesting, and perhaps frightening, that Snowden&#x27;s passport was revoked. I&#x27;ve been thinking quite a bit about it since that bit of news broke, and since it&#x27;s referenced in this statement, it&#x27;s back in my head.<p>I winced a bit at the claim of being a stateless person, as I&#x27;d previously understood that to mean lacking citizenship <i>anywhere</i>, not being without a passport for travel. Perhaps I&#x27;ve been wrong about that all these years.<p>I&#x27;m still researching, but so far, I&#x27;ve found the following passport-revocation authorities:<p>1. Obtained illegally or through fraud<p>2. Altered or misused (no definition yet on &#x27;misused&#x27;)<p>3. Issued to persons whose citizenship is cancelled<p>4. Non-payment of child support<p>5. Non-repayment of repatriation loan<p>6. Persons convicted of sex tourism<p>7. Persons convicted of drug trafficking<p>8. [based on comment below] Standing warrants for arrest (and other standing legal&#x2F;court orders against the bearer)<p>Interestingly enough, 22 USC § 2721 states that:<p>&gt; <i>A passport may not be denied issuance, revoked, restricted, or otherwise limited because of any speech, activity, belief, affiliation, or membership, within or outside the United States, which, if held or conducted within the United States, would be protected by the first amendment to the Constitution of the United States.</i><p>I&#x27;ve yet to find an authority to revoke a passport from a citizen who is openly seeking political asylum.<p>However, there is 22 USC § 217a:<p>&gt;<i>A passport shall be valid for a period of ten years from the date of issue, except that the Secretary of State may limit the validity of a passport to a period of less than ten years in an individual case or on a general basis pursuant to regulation.</i><p>So, there&#x27;s that. Perhaps this is one such individual case.<p>Additionally, the law requires the DOS to send the passport owner written notification of revocation. I wonder if the US is considering a press statement to be such written notice?<p>Any lawyers versed in passport issues know whether revoking a passport in a situation like this runs afoul of law or established precedent?<p>[edit: formatting failure on my part]
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Kylekramer将近 12 年前
Accusing the United States of depriving him of the right to seek asylum seems like a tautology to me. If the United States wasn&#x27;t attempting to bring him back to the US for a trial, he wouldn&#x27;t need to seek asylum.<p>Does this mean every country who attempts to prosecute people who subsequently seek asylum is violating &quot;a basic right&quot;?
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jusben1369将近 12 年前
Obama is saying &quot;You broke the law. We want you back. We won&#x27;t wheel and deal for you with any country who wants to use you iike a pawn to win some other concession or just enjoy sticking it to us. Take him in at your own risk&quot; Nothing new here or deceitful. Pretty standard operating procedure.
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webghost将近 12 年前
Just an FYI:<p>Nicolas Maduro, president of Venezuela is in Russia right now. He flies not the national presidential airplane but a cuban plane.<p>Rumor has it, he visited Russia with the intention of giving Snowden a ride back to Venezuela.<p>We&#x27;ll see.
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jgrahamc将近 12 年前
He&#x27;s not a &#x27;stateless person&#x27;. His passport has been revoked, but he remains a US citizen.
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Kapura将近 12 年前
I very much doubt that the United States government is afraid of me. Snowden is a real drama queen.<p>I don&#x27;t think that he deserves asylum either. I think he should come back to America, have a public trial with media coverage, and then we can firmly establish if what he did was wrong.<p>Edit: It appears that I&#x27;m unable to reply to the various comments on this, so I&#x27;ll try to refine what I&#x27;m saying:<p>I <i>do</i> think that whistleblowers are necessary, especially in large, secretive organisations. But I think that Snowden&#x27;s limbo isn&#x27;t providing the requisite closure on the matter. I think that he should be compelled to explain his actions in court. I think all whistleblowers should, just as I think that anybody who kills somebody under a make-my-day law should still have their actions examined. Whistle blowing isn&#x27;t something that somebody does lightly, and i think that should be doubly true for matters of national security.<p>Additionally, trying to vilify the government in a press statement is silly. Let their actions speak for them, and let your own actions speak for you.
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mililani将近 12 年前
Damn, we live in a shitty world. And the comments in here are not much better. I wish him the best. It&#x27;s sad that Ecuador is wavering. What a joke their leader is. First, they&#x27;re posturing and puffing out their chests, now they look like fools.
brown9-2将近 12 年前
Serious question: how has the US been &quot;extrajudicial&quot;?<p>Isn&#x27;t it common to revoke a passport of someone you want to try of a crime and have extradited?<p>Does one expect the government to assist in your asylum attempts?<p>I don&#x27;t believe one has the right to not be charged with a crime, especially one you have admitted to.
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jgoodwin将近 12 年前
One thing that concerns me is that many Americans are adopting what is essentially a Tory&#x2F;Loyalist attitude towards these events, without understanding the Tory&#x2F;Loyalist political philosophy of dissidence, which differs from &#x27;civil disobedience&#x27; and &#x27;non-violent resistance&#x27; (those are the <i>other</i> guys).<p>Don&#x27;t get me wrong -- we can&#x27;t all be Patriots and Revolutionaries -- but our history has ill-fitted us to be <i>good</i> at being Tories and Loyalists. Those were the bad guys in all our grade-school stories ... and now we <i>are</i> those bad guys.<p>The classical Tory theory of dissidence is called &quot;Passive Obedience.&quot; This doesn&#x27;t mean bending over and being a wimp. It means being obedient to higher authority (God and Constitutional Law), while seemingly disobeying usurpers and tyrants, who are themselves violating the higher Law -- constitutional, moral, and natural. The &quot;Passive&quot; part is an old word meaning suffering (like the Passion of Christ).<p>Edward Snowden has given us a very good example of Passive Obedience -- <i>if</i> he is correct the programs are indeed unconstitutional. He certainly is suffering for his beliefs, and is fleeing, not resisting or rebelling against the State. Failure to obey the commands of usurpers and tyrants, or to obey bad law in defiance of the dictates of one&#x27;s conscience, are not required even of Loyalists and Tories.<p>The fact that Tories and Loyalists, which the American people have become, are condemning his actions, shows only that we have forgotten how to be good Redcoats, as well as most certainly having forgotten how to be good Patriots.<p>As good Tories (not good Patriots though), Loyal to the American State, we have the right to petition our sovereign -- the American People, not its representative Government -- i.e., to request a constitutional convention to strike down these Star Chamber courts, redress the alleged tyranny, and end the usurpations against our Sovereign&#x27;s previously constituted declarations, and granted Bill of Rights.<p>As far as Snowden&#x27;s flight is concerned, Sir Thomas Hobbes gives a very clear explanation of both Passive Obedience and the right of the dissident to flee, in an attempt to evade the sure punishment he would otherwise receive with or without justice (however if he is caught he must meekly accept his Passion and martyrdom, without resistance -- Civil Disobedience and Resistance are the contrary of the Tory doctrine).<p>Time to pick sides -- but if we are going to be Tories all, let us not be <i>bad</i> ones. These are the times that try men&#x27;s souls.
jpdoctor将近 12 年前
Article 14 - Universal Declaration of Human Rights<p>Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.<p>This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.<p><a href="http://www.ichrp.org/en/article_14_udhr" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ichrp.org&#x2F;en&#x2F;article_14_udhr</a>
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cpursley将近 12 年前
If there were ever a case for a second passport, this is one.<p>You can get buy one for $135,000. This is what Derek Sivers did. <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3944339" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=3944339</a><p><a href="https://sivers.org/comfort" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sivers.org&#x2F;comfort</a><p><a href="http://www.sovereignman.com/lifestyle-design/how-to-obtain-a-second-passport-10112/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sovereignman.com&#x2F;lifestyle-design&#x2F;how-to-obtain-a...</a>
snicklepuff将近 12 年前
To imply that the US is somehow out of order to pursue his extradition makes no sense. What does he expect them to do?<p>IMHO, he should not have run. I don&#x27;t think he would have any trouble convincing 12 people that what he did was the right thing. Running was bad form.<p>I don&#x27;t like this guy, and I don&#x27;t trust him.
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falcolas将近 12 年前
A meta comment.<p>It reflects strongly on the state of our world now that I was more concerned about the fallout from visiting wikileaks.org than I was by the latest information coming from Snowden.
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paul9290将近 12 年前
Is the world a different place after 9&#x2F;11 .. heck yes!<p>How can the govt. prevent such an event from happening again or at least attempt to prevent it from happening again? Only way I can think is to invade every citizen&#x27;s privacy of every nation, as they have done.<p>It seems for us the US there is no win win and with human nature there never is. If another 9&#x2F;11 happens we&#x27;d be crying why didnt the govt. do more though the govt. is doing more and now we are crying what the hell are they doing?<p>Humans..we&#x27;re never satisfied!
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thufry将近 12 年前
This reads like the statement of someone who realizes it might be his last.
spickelmier将近 12 年前
Exposing US surveillance of US citizens is clearly whistleblowing and a good thing. Taking government laptops with NSA information, telling the Chinese what sites of theirs the NSA hacked, and then releasing information about NSA listening in on others (outside of the US) goes well into the realm of breaking the law and should have consequences. Of course, taking a tour of our adversaries doesn&#x27;t help his cause much...<p>Also, I find it hard to swallow those who are up in arms about NSA spying on non-US citizens... seriously??? What do they think the NSA was formed to do??? That should not be a surprise...<p>I do worry that Wikileaks is pretty much hijacking his agenda and substituting their own...
arbuge将近 12 年前
There is little doubt he is winning the war of public opinion at this point - certainly overseas, and possibly back at home.
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rolfwind将近 12 年前
I wish him the very best.
isaacb将近 12 年前
&quot;and neither is the extralegal penalty of exile&quot;<p>Okay, so this guy keeps saying some pretty strange things. If he came to the States, he would no doubt be tried in the legal system. He is putting himself into an extralegal position. I think it&#x27;s probably the best thing for him to do at this point, but to say that the government has in any way forced him out of the legal system is pretty silly.
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vijayboyapati将近 12 年前
This young man is a true American hero.
suyash将近 12 年前
What is the proof that this Statement came from Snowden directly?
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mpyne将近 12 年前
&gt; Providing a counterbalance makes it harder for the government propaganda machine to sway public opinion against him and turn him into Just Another Terrorist.<p>Maybe he should tell Russian state media to tone it down a bit then. From <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2351981/Is-Ed-Snowden-set-claim-asylum-Venezuela-President-Maduro-visits-Russia-tomorrow.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dailymail.co.uk&#x2F;news&#x2F;article-2351981&#x2F;Is-Ed-Snowde...</a> :<p>&quot;In several rapidly-aired shows on state-run TV, Snowden was flattered as &#x27;a soldier in the information war, who fights, of course, <i>on the side of Russia</i>&#x27;.&quot;<p>As far as Russia is concerned Snowden isn&#x27;t fighting for some pan-national ideal; he&#x27;s fighting on the side of Russia
mcarlin将近 12 年前
Role model.<p><a href="http://imgur.com/AfcF56q" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;AfcF56q</a>
yaix将近 12 年前
&gt; using citizenship as a weapon. Although I am convicted of nothing, it has unilaterally revoked my passport, leaving me a stateless person.<p>And, ironically, this terrible decision of the US government, ultimately is responsible for Snowden having to stay in Moscow and probably having to tell the Russian everything he knows, even the parts he never intented to reveal. The US government just did a classical &quot;shot yourself in the foot&quot;, I&#x27;d say.
DannyBee将近 12 年前
Waiting for the onion to write &quot;Edward Snowden issues statement confirming he wrote earlier statement from Edward Snowden&quot;
kbd将近 12 年前
I love that he included his middle name in the signature, after the US bungled its extradition request by getting that wrong.
squozzer将近 12 年前
I&#x27;m sure those who signed the following doc were probably accused of egocentrism, among other things:<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;United_States_Declaration_of_In...</a>
SkyMarshal将近 12 年前
I wonder what exactly happened with Hong Kong. Did he get wind that the HK govt intended to end-run its own laws and asylum process and extradite him, or something similar?
Uchikoma将近 12 年前
I&#x27;m not sure you know how Wikileaks works &quot;I&#x27;d really like to see Wikileaks devoting more of its time, energy, and fund-raising into breaking news about government-operated surveillance programs in the last two countries where Edward Snowden has been located, namely China and Russia.&quot;<p>From my understanding people submit content to Wikileaks which then decides what and when to publish. But I guess this depends on if you believe Assange pushed Mannings to release documents.
Kiro将近 12 年前
I&#x27;m so very tired of WikiLeaks. Since when is this their case?
jabits将近 12 年前
Thank you, Edwin Snowden. In the end, you have made us more free.
jabits将近 12 年前
Thank you Edwin Snowden. In the end, you have made us more free.
stcredzero将近 12 年前
Is there a way we can send cash to Edward Snowden?
guard-of-terra将近 12 年前
Best read if you can imagine a voice in your head a-la Diablo III, how various spirits of past talk.
dmead将近 12 年前
why would he date it d&#x2F;m&#x2F;y instead of m&#x2F;d&#x2F;y?
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epynonymous将近 12 年前
edward is a very strong writer, his rhetoric is perfect.
diminoten将近 12 年前
For someone who doesn&#x27;t want the story to be about him, he sure talks a lot about himself...
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