Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

As Federal employees, the men and women who work at the NSA swear an oath which dates back to 1884:<p>&quot;I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.&quot;<p>Rather than instantly pass the buck about the scope, context and impact of their domestic surveillance work, perhaps the recruiters on this clip should re-read this oath and think about what it really means; what their responsibilities are to the citizens of the United States; and what kind of country they want their children and their children&#x27;s children to live in.

Posted in the other thread about this[0]:<p><pre><code> &quot;This was a fun read and it seams like many people could just DDoS the recruiting efforts of the NSA and CIA by showing up to recruiting sessions and playing devil&#x27;s advocates. If you are well informed and good at internet arguing, you are well equipped to attend these recruiting sessions. At the very least it would plant the seeds of cognitive dissonance in the minds of everyone recruiting for the NSA and CIA. e.g. &quot;Why do so many of the citizens we are trying to protect not agree with our decision to do a job where we trade liberty for security?&quot; </code></pre> To be clear, my suggestion here is not meant to prevent either the CIA or NSA from doing their jobs, but to help them remember that their job is clearly spelled out in the US Uniformed Services Oath of office, which AFAIK the CIA and NSA also swear to.<p>[0] <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5983709" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=5983709</a>

I have some sympathy for the recruiters since they really have no say in the high level decision making in the organization. They may not even be involved with domestic spying of citizens.<p>But on the other hand they continue to stay at the organization so while I do feel some sympathy for their predicament,I guess it&#x27;s really just up to each person to figure out whether they&#x27;re really okay with staying there, given all the pros and cons involved.

Some background on the event and recording: <a href="http://mobandmultitude.com/2013/07/02/the-nsa-comes-recruiting/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;mobandmultitude.com&#x2F;2013&#x2F;07&#x2F;02&#x2F;the-nsa-comes-recruiti...</a><p>edit: Cached version <a href="http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://mobandmultitude.com/2013/07/02/the-nsa-comes-recruiting/&amp;rlz=2C5CHFA_enDE0538DE0538&amp;strip=1" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;webcache.googleusercontent.com&#x2F;search?q=cache:http:&#x2F;&#x2F;...</a>

I have a trick I feel would make a confrontation like this better.<p>Always speak under the assumption that the other person is &#x27;good&#x27;. That means not calling them a liar. Instead, ask the questions that you feel would expose the inconsistency. That way they show everyone the point you&#x27;re trying to make. Also it prevents personal animosity from obscuring the real content you might discover.<p>Furthermore, it allows a 3rd party who hears the discourse more freedom to make up their mind, whereas they might naturally go against your point of view because it&#x27;s being pushed down their throat.

Can we organize a list of time + locations for NSA recruiting sessions, maybe with GPS based email alerts?<p>1. I think that if this kind of questioning become the norm, we&#x27;d have a significant impact on their ability to recruit.<p>2. Maybe some startup founders in the area could go poach the talent :p

It&#x27;s rarely actually impressive to observe somebody attack lesser proponents of the ideas they disagree with. Sure, none of the actual decision makers will come within ten miles of an open forum, but this comes off mostly as just bullying.

I have to imagine their recruiting is going to suffer greatly due to the recent revelations. Very few smart people are going to want to join an organization that spies on their fellow citizens. Plus, the NSA is going to have to be even more skeptical of anyone they do recruit.

This is brilliant. Instead of that less than half-assed interview Charlie Rose did with Obama, we should have had those students go at it.

That was fantastic! Thanks for sharing this. Hope to see more stuff like this arising.

NSA Recruiting sessions are staffed by NSA recruiters - i.e. sales people. There might be the token engineer on hand to answer in very generic terms about technology etc, but to think that any questions would be met with useful responses is like asking the President&#x27;s press secretary information on details of classified operations.<p>You&#x27;ll get nothing more than spin at best.

Is this at University of Wisconsin-Madison? The image in the SoundCloud sidebar suggests this happened at Ingraham Hall.

I was watching a documentary last night on youtube about the lulzsec hackers that got caught. A British woman with some government credentials made the point that the hacking of companies and organisations had real knock on effects that affected the jobs and careers of people in those targeted areas. This is why it was wrong, and this is why hackers must be punished fro their crimes.<p>Now, if the NSA are spying for US global corporations, the intelligence gathered is to benefit the US corporations and negatively effect the corporations being spied on. This means people affiliated with those corporations&#x2F;organisations targeted by the spying will be negatively affected by the hacking&#x2F;spying.<p>Of course, nobody will prosecute NSA affiliated hackers (or those in charge) that destroy or affect the livelihoods of people they have targeted.

Why are they doing student recruiting right now? I imagine all sessions would go like this.

While I happen to agree with her views, I think it was unfair to other students for her to unleash her rant during a recruiting session. She went there to intentionally cause conflict, evidenced by the fact that she recorded it. Everyone in attendance was well aware of the NSA scandal - they didn&#x27;t need her to fill them in. While she may have the financial resources to take the moral high ground on such matters, most college kids need jobs when they graduate. She took away valuable time that those kids may have wanted to interact with a potential employer.

This is so great. This is the only thing that has made me feel some hope since all of this started.<p>Thank you!

Sounds to me like this girl is doing her best to dig for a confrontation. She alternates between questions and barely-veiled insults targeted at the recruiters.

I don&#x27;t think they called her back.

i&#x27;m having flashbacks to a recruiting session i attended at my school in like 2005&#x2F;6. shiver.

Video: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrOZllbNarw" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=UrOZllbNarw</a>

Wow I bet this girl is real proud of herself. But why is she trying to have this debate with recruiters? How immature.<p>I hope NSA switches up their recruitment a little bit, make it easier for technically qualified people who aren&#x27;t exactly choir boys to get a job there. I&#x27;d love to work for them.<p>Surveillance isn&#x27;t going away, and I bet the technology side of it is fascinating, full of interesting problems.