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Stay-at-home dad

303 点作者 joebeetee将近 12 年前

23 条评论

enraged_camel将近 12 年前
The part about being viewed suspiciously at the playground was particularly awful.<p>Why is it that we as a society are so fucking fearful? We have an irrational fear of communists, socialists, terrorists, serial killers, sex offenders, and of course, child molesters and abductors. Everyone thinks that there is someone out there who is out to hurt them and their family. Like, that is the <i>default assumption</i>, and people&#x27;s subsequent behaviors (such as pulling their kid closer) is based on it.<p>A non-parent man sitting at a playground bench and reading his paper is very, very likely to get the cops called on him, even though he&#x27;s on public property. Is this right?
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lotharbot将近 12 年前
I identify very strongly with this.<p>I became a stay-at-home dad when my son was born 3.5 years ago, by choice, because parenting is what I want to do with my life. My wife wanted a technical career, and went back to work as soon as she was able. More recently, my sister (a single mom) and her little boy moved in with us. My sister works at the school down the street, and has a lot of other out-of-the-home commitments. Both my son and my nephew were in school for half of the day this last year, which meant I watched both of them every afternoon and many evenings, and was on call whenever there was a problem at school (both are special needs kids.)<p>Some of the challenges I&#x27;ve seen:<p>- I dress like a stay-at-home dad, complete with scraggly beard and sweatpants (no sense in getting peanut butter, pee, and play-doh on nice clothes!) When I&#x27;m out at the store without the kids, people look at me like I&#x27;m a predator. When I take a kid or two with me, they look at me like I&#x27;m a saint, much moreso than the moms who have kids with them. [EDIT: when I lived in small-town Utah for a while, taking a kid to the store got mixed reactions, with some thinking I was a saint and others thinking there was something wrong with me. In other areas, the reaction was almost uniformly &quot;saint&quot;.]<p>- My grandfather grew up in an era of man works - woman does childcare. He&#x27;s constantly asking me when I&#x27;m getting a job, and doesn&#x27;t understand when I say &quot;this is my job&quot;.<p>- I actually will be working outside the home, in a school, during the coming school year. A number of people have expressed sentiments along the lines of &quot;good for you, glad you&#x27;re finally doing something with your life&quot;, as if my son raised himself and I had nothing to do with it.<p>- I&#x27;m constantly hearing about support groups for parents, and they almost always have &quot;mom&quot; somewhere in the name. Some of them will say that dads are welcome too, but it&#x27;s still awkward. The only real support group I have was accidental - a bunch of people from church were all getting together, and then everyone quit except for me and a few moms and our preschoolers.
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tokenadult将近 12 年前
It was way back in 1992 that I radically reshaped my career plans, coincident with the birth of my first son (who, gratifyingly, is now grown up and supporting himself as a hacker for a startup). I read the comments here, read the fine article, and still don&#x27;t completely grok that I have had much the same experience without as much surrounding cultural baggage. Predominantly &quot;stay-at-home&quot; (a better term might be &quot;near young children&quot;) fathers have always been rare, yes, but they have been around for a long time. I have certainly always been able to go to public parks with my children (the first three of whom were boys) or to the library or other places with them.<p>I haven&#x27;t heard a lot of the kinds of nasty comments that the author of this interesting submitted article appears to have heard all too often. For me, since we had children, it has been important to spend a lot of time with my children while they grow up. They are only young once each. Way back in the early 1970s, I thought, evidently overoptimistically, that women&#x27;s liberation would be a force to make it possible for dads to spend more time with their children if the dads so chose. Maybe that doesn&#x27;t happen as a matter of social reality everywhere, but that is the choice I made, and I&#x27;m not looking back. All of my children, the three boys and the one girl, are already thinking ahead about what kind of lifestyle trade-offs they will work out with their spouses when, as they hope, they have children of their own.<p>One cannot emphasize the author&#x27;s point too much that taking care of young children is a lot of work that demands constant vigilance. Authors from the women&#x27;s liberation perspective used to argue that that is one of the best reasons to hire former homemakers as they return to the outside-the-home paid labor force--it takes strong personal organization skills to take care of young children. I don&#x27;t know if that&#x27;s what big company employers really think, but it sure makes sense to me.<p>To be clear for onlookers new to my posts here, we are a homeschooling family, so the high parental involvement with children (again, not &quot;stay at home&quot; but &quot;out and about with the children&quot;) has continued in our family even though our youngest child is above typical school-going age. We like this lifestyle, because we like what it appears to be doing for our children. There are trade-offs involved in any lifestyle choice that relates both to family and to work responsibilities, but there is plenty of time for working in anyone&#x27;s day, and a lot of good memories that can be built up from quality family time.
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joebeetee将近 12 年前
Whilst I appreciate the discussion points around gender&#x2F;sexism, I personally have felt more discrimination from the kids &#x2F; no kids situation, on more than one occasion.<p>I recently interviewed at a large company and did very well on all the questions, connected with the interviewers, had long chats with the recruiter, etc - but didn&#x27;t get the job. I suspect one of the reasons I didn&#x27;t get the job was the fact that I mentioned my wife&#x2F;kid. The team that I interviewed for were all fairly young (so am I) but I think the kid thing could&#x27;ve thrown them off.<p>This may just be an issue at and job level that I am applying at and I&#x27;m very prepared for the fact that it may have been because I didn&#x27;t do as well as I thought, but I have no idea what else it could&#x27;ve been. Would be great to know if anyone else has ever felt this.
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Tichy将近 12 年前
I agree with his experiences, and there would be more to add. For example our baby-friend families usually were connected via my wife (from birth preparation classes for example), so it was a bit harder&#x2F;more awkward for me to call them up to hang out so that our kids could play together. That&#x27;s not active discrimination, just stuff that happens.<p>I wanted to throw some other thought to HN: I&#x27;ve come to the conclusion that we won&#x27;t see a big surge in &quot;stay-at-home-daddying&quot;. I have nothing against it, but ultimately I think the rationale would be &quot;why would I pay my babysitter half of my salary&quot; (which is what a stay at home dad is getting)? It seems to me a mother still has a bigger claim to her children because she invested much more physically, so society will deem it more acceptable if she does the stay-at-home thing, getting paid more than a mere babysitter.<p>Or will it become feasible in the future to speculate on becoming a stay-at-home dad? For example (extreme to make a point) instead of taking on another career, take classes in cooking and home decoration in the expectation to one day take care of a home? It seems very unlikely to me, although of course there will be (and already are) lots of women who have and want interesting careers. But would they go forth and marry a guy with no skills but home honing? Please spare me the sexism comments, I want to think rationally about this. (I personally don&#x27;t care who stays at home). The point is that it is very viable to speculate on becoming a stay at home mother imo.
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callmeed将近 12 年前
My 3 youngest were born within the span of 4 years. Any time I&#x27;m out with all 3, someone usually says &quot;boy, you&#x27;ve got your hands full!&quot; ... it&#x27;s odd because (a) I find it quite easy to manage them and (b) no one has ever said that to my wife even though she gets &quot;frazzled&quot; (for lack of a better term) by them easier than I do.
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joebeetee将近 12 年前
There is so much food for thought in this article. Particularly liked his line &quot;Don&#x27;t worry, I&#x27;m not going to nab your kid, I already got this one.&quot;<p>Interesting how the author felt that people could say things to him that they wouldn&#x27;t say to women in a similar situation.
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networked将近 12 年前
One thing we as a society owe to a stay-at-home dad is, out of all things, cyberpunk. William Gibson famously found his interest in science fiction renewed and began to write while staying at home with his first child.
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rudog将近 12 年前
&quot;Don&#x27;t worry, I&#x27;m not going to nab your kid, I already got this one.&quot;<p>Is this common place? As of a father of twins; I regularly take my kids to the park and either I&#x27;m oblivious to these looks or I am too busy playing zone defense on two almost 3 year olds that I don&#x27;t even notice.
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Pxtl将近 12 年前
Stay-at-home dad fist-bump. Here in Ontario, parents have the right to split their parental leave. We did it the traditional way for the first two... for round three, we split it 60&#x2F;40, and I got the big side.<p>I wouldn&#x27;t trade this for the world. My kids are juggernauts of exhausting destruction, but I knew this was my only chance to get this kind of extended time with them and I wanted it.<p>One thing is that the only sentiment I agree with is the frustrating low expectations. I&#x27;m not superdad, I&#x27;m regularparent. The patronizing &quot;you&#x27;re such a great husband&quot; thing constantly makes me cringe. I&#x27;m not even <i>good</i> at this - I shout at the kids more than I should, and when I get overwhelmed I just bury my head in my phone and read Facebook and HN and ignore whatever they&#x27;re destroying.<p>But otherwise? Maybe it&#x27;s Canada, maybe it&#x27;s that I live in a university neighborhood, maybe I&#x27;m just that awesome, Idunno... The local moms have accepted me as one of their own while we bitch about homework. I don&#x27;t get suspicious looks at the playground, and I&#x27;m as scruffy as the next geek (sweat pants are unacceptable though, have some pride, man).<p>But then again, maybe I&#x27;m just oblivious. I know my wife has gotten some... unfortunate questions and comments about going back to work with a 5-month-old baby, and that&#x27;s not cool.<p>edit: I think I may have my wires crossed between whether I&#x27;m replying to the FB post or to one of the other commenters. Sweat pants was not in TFA.
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cristianpascu将近 12 年前
I remember when I was a very young dad, and 15 minutes with my very young son was torture. I see myself in much of what he tells. Much of it by imagining the now dad of a 10yo as a dad of 4 months old son.<p>But there&#x27;s one thing I can tell for sure. A father can not replace a mother. I wouldn&#x27;t take offense if a woman asked me why isn&#x27;t my wife taking care of the child. In the past 10 years there were countless cases where my wife handled things entirely differently then myself. Specially the emotionally relevant things, which are extremely important at early stages of child development.<p>There is no gender equality when it comes to what a child needs. A child needs the smile of a mother as much as they need the smile of a father. And one can not replace the other.
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spamizbad将近 12 年前
His experience mirrors closely with my friend, who is a stay-at-home dad. All the crap this guy puts up with strangers is pretty prevalent - my friend&#x27;s experienced the same, and worse, as he&#x27;s been doing it longer.
shirro将近 12 年前
Women are graduating in higher numbers and getting better positions. My wife has a permanent secure job so I made the practical decision to be home dad 5 years ago. It is a huge readjustment for anyone not used to looking after kids regardless of their chromosomes. Junior primary and preschool teachers (universally women) and women at playgroup are very accepting. My kids probably miss out a bit on the social activities mums seem to plan with each other but they get to kick a football with dad and dig holes in the back yard. I take my youngest to the park to play in the playground nearly every day. Perhaps I am just thick-skinned but I don&#x27;t notice being treated any differently and I see plenty of other dad spending time with their kids.<p>The only time I felt I got the predator treatment was when we lost our escape artist kid in a big store and I found him at about the same time as one of the staff members and she snatched him from me and handed him over to his mum. I think that was just good training rather than a reaction to my beardiness. His mum had reported him missing while I went and found him so the staff member had no idea who I was.
fredrikcarno将近 12 年前
My twin boys are now 10 month and me and my wife decided that staying home both of us for a year to give them a good start was a good idea. It was, and i can really recommend people doing the same even if it means having to make tough decisions like changing jobs and not buying that new car<p>Have a great day<p>Best Fredrik
anotherevan将近 12 年前
I&#x27;ve been doing the primary parent thing for about 16 months now. My story is probably a bit different in that I&#x27;ve started it much later in my children&#x27;s lives than all the any other articles I read.<p>Basically I worked full time and my wife worked part time for the first 12 years. She had been wanting to go back to work full time, and we had done a test run when she covered someone on maternity leave for six months, but both of us full time just wasn&#x27;t working and everyone was miserable by the end of it.<p>Then in 2011 an opportunity came up for me to work part time, mostly from home, and we decided to swap and give things a go. So I didn&#x27;t start with infants, but with a 12 and 10 year old. It&#x27;s been interesting so far.
qznc将近 12 年前
Odd that stay-at-home women label themselves as &quot;not working&quot;. I often try to convince my wife and others to proudly answer &quot;mother&quot; when asked for their work. It might not get payed, but it surely is a lot of work.
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tigroferoce将近 12 年前
I envy you Tom. As a working-(too-much)-father, I work more than I see my kids and I feel like I&#x27;m losing something big.<p>As others I radically reshapes my carrer when my first daughter was born leaving unsafe research field for the safer and higher paid industry. While I&#x27;m pretty OK where I work now, I miss so much the freedom in terms of working hours and time tables. I&#x27;d like to find a job where I could spend more time with my kids, even at the price of a lower wage.<p>Best and good luck for you coming back to work (BTW, the next months will be <i>WAY</i> more physically exhausting).
golemmiprague将近 12 年前
Honestly, I got no clue what you all are talking about. Never had problems or felt weird looks in the play ground, never got compliments for changing nappies or anything like that. I think most people are used to dads taking care of kids these days, and I am not even living in some inner city sophisticated place.
crasshopper将近 12 年前
The author was astute enough to see his difficulties as a microcosm of what minorities regularly experience. That seems to have been lost in the HN commentary.
furyofantares将近 12 年前
I&#x27;m amazed that this comes from a such a short absence. I kept having to double check that I hadn&#x27;t misread it.
IzzyMurad将近 12 年前
&gt; being constantly alert<p>A good or a retarded dad? I am not sure. What trouble a 0-4 month old baby could get into if you put him in a place where he could not fall?
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Dewie将近 12 年前
&gt; It also still gets under my skin when people call it &quot;babysitting&quot; or &quot;daddy daycare.&quot;<p>It seems like a lot of people feel that dads can only be second-rate caregivers compared to moms, as if they were to take care of a toddler it would only be as an assistant or subordinate to the mother.
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techboots将近 12 年前
Looks like FB jumped the shark if they&#x27;re employing guys who leave for 4 months, or gals like Sheryl Sandberg who leaves work 5pm every day.<p>I get it - yes, it&#x27;s nice and wonderful. But... Frankly, I wouldn&#x27;t want to work with coworkers like this. Entrepreneurs don&#x27;t make silly justifications like this -- only employees play this political game. And quite frankly, I wouldn&#x27;t put up with actions like this - I&#x27;d quit in a heartbeat, or tone down my work time as well to match. Hey, just because I don&#x27;t have a kid, doesn&#x27;t mean I shouldn&#x27;t get time off - why punish me for that. Not fair. I&#x27;ll take my time off to work on my own projects.<p>If you have a family, it may just be better to sit out of the game for a while rather than dragging the work quality of everyone else around you down.
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