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Bot wars - The arms race of restaurant reservations in SF

166 点作者 RonileSille13将近 12 年前

34 条评论

rndmize将近 12 年前
Soon - &quot;Auction Sniper now supports urbanspoon! First 3 reservations are free!&quot;<p>There&#x27;s something frustrating about reading this. Perhaps its that a technological advancement that was supposed to make life easier is being capitalized on by a small group of technically competent people, shutting out the average user.<p>I was thinking of going to PAX next year a few hours ago and decided to do a bit of research. For this year, the 4 day tickets apparently sold out in 23 minutes, and the rest within 5 hours. I&#x27;m having a hard time imagining how its going to be possible for anyone to get some this coming year without a bot.
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jbigelow76将近 12 年前
You folks don&#x27;t actually think that opentable&#x2F;urban spoon reservation availability is representative of a restaurant&#x27;s entire table inventory on a given night do you? Pick up a phone (dirty little secret, restaurants segment customers too).
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mozboz将近 12 年前
I&#x27;d suggest that this effect is a somewhat superficial expression of the deeply rooted problem of people in urban situations broadly losing their personal connections with their own expressions of creativity and art, primarily through doing work that they are not engaged with in a deep, meaningful sense.<p>Perhaps:<p>- People in certain modern, urban situations crave certain types of creative expression that seem to be very hard to find in these environments.<p>- Social patterns place a high value on being seen to have had an experience, that provide a reward similar to being the artist.<p>- People capable of producing these artistic experiences are initially perhaps not so interested in managing the people who are the recipients of their creativity - they are more interested in creation.<p>- Once money and&#x2F;or fame becomes involved, the artists are unlikely to widely share the skills that lead to the creativity arising, are motivated to protect methods of production, fetishize the product and create strong brands.<p>These factors together create this &#x27;hipster&#x27; effect where small points of creativity are heavily focussed on and take a long time to replicate.<p>I&#x27;d hypothesize that this situation would go away if people were broadly connecting with meaningful, personal creative pursuits. Or, if the artists flipped their model once they smelled success and were motivated to share everything they were doing, allowing the experience to be rapidly replicated.
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PhasmaFelis将近 12 年前
I love how everyone <i>else</i> who fights for reservations is a filthy hipster, while the author is merely a humble gourmand.
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Stupendous将近 12 年前
Given their popularity, why doesn&#x27;t this restaurant just get rid of the reservation system altogether? A lot of the popular&#x2F;trendy&#x2F;hipster magnet places here do this since it saves hassle and creates a certain allure when lines are out the door for a table.
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lars512将近 12 年前
Perhaps the restaurant should raise its prices.
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sien将近 12 年前
This is remarkable.<p>Concert tickets are also being bought this way by bots for scalpers.<p>Ebay sniper bots are commonly used.<p>High Frequency trading is the high end this.<p>Perhaps it is unavoidable, perhaps other means for selling things online should be sought out, text messages with semantic replies required or something?
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jakozaur将近 12 年前
Few years ago I wrote sth similar for registering to popular courses at my university. A lot of CS students gets an edge doing that.<p>Moreover, I have also participated in a few lotteries for various things (e.g. Half Dome permit), but did that completely by the book.<p>A few things that help make system fair (TM):<p>- price them right, maybe even charge a bit premium for reservation vs. walk-ins<p>- make cancelation non-free and charge at reservation time, even a few dollars prevents spurious reservations &quot;just in case&quot;<p>- have a waiting list, if there is a cancellation, you can automatically sell it to someone else<p>- do some load management, e.g. weekend prices, discounts...
Bjorkbat将近 12 年前
I bet this bot race is doing a great deal to improve relations between San Francisco&#x27;s tech population and...well, everyone else in SF.
westicle将近 12 年前
If an establishment wants to give non-techies the opportunity to attend, yet remain &quot;accessible&quot; to those without piles of money, there are a few solutions.<p>1. Don&#x27;t take reservations.<p>My favourite restaurant operates on this basis. On a Friday or Saturday night you will queue for up to an hour for a table. If you prefer to avoid peak hour, there is rarely any queue for lunch. I&#x27;ve eaten there over 100 times and I still don&#x27;t begrudge the time spent in the queue.<p>2. Run a lottery<p>Popular theatrical productions are great at this. If you don&#x27;t want to book months ahead (or can&#x27;t afford to spend hundreds of dollars), Book of Mormon offers a ticket lottery before every show. Just show up at the theatre and enter for your chance to win one of 21 discounted, front-row tickets.<p>To clarify, I&#x27;m not suggesting that the establishment in the OP wants to let the poor and&#x2F;or technological illiterate to attend. However other places have managed to do so without hurting their brand.
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lifeisstillgood将近 12 年前
But surely this is a good thing - people will have to take part in an auction for a table.<p>Want to eat at $POPULARRESTAURANT - you set a bid min and max and off you go.<p>Its allocating scarce resource at the most efficient level.
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pyoung将近 12 年前
Seems like Urbanspoon should be using some sort of scraping counter measures to make things a little more fair. I sent them an e-mail through their contact form (of course I wouldn&#x27;t be suprised if those are sent straight to the trash&#x2F;spam folder).<p>Also, is scraping legal? I would imagine, at the very least, the OP and others are violating the TOS. I have written a few scripts of my own for fun, but I would be careful about bragging about it on a public blog.
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zaroth将近 12 年前
Since you can&#x27;t RESELL your reservation, I think the answer is for the restaurant to black list exactly one sniper, maybe just for one year, and publicize doing so.<p>Everyone else, who has been fighting to get a reservation for months the old fashion way, will not decry your loss.<p>And I doubt very much you would risk getting blacklisted for sniping reservations off their site, since you appear to love the restaurant so much.
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qq66将近 12 年前
The people saying &quot;raise the prices&quot; don&#x27;t realize that the scarcity of the restaurant is an asset in itself. Restaurants become famous for being impossible to get a table at. The chef is more respected by his or her peers and the media. Newspapers write articles about the restaurant. The restaurant&#x27;s cookbook starts selling more copies on Amazon. The chef is invited to an interview on Food Network. None of these things happen if they raise the prices until there&#x27;s no excess demand.<p>Ferrari also has a long-standing policy of manufacturing &quot;one fewer car than the market demands.&quot;
raarky将近 12 年前
In London, a &quot;no reservations&quot; system seems to be happening more and more with popular trendy&#x2F;hip establishments.<p>And it seems to work.<p>Places like Burger &amp; Lobster or Meat Liquor usually have very long queues at prime times.
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linuxhansl将近 12 年前
Reminds of the tickets to &quot;walk&quot; up Half Dome (Yosemite park). After some folks died a few years back, the number of folks is limited and you have to get a ticket.<p><i>All</i> tickets for the year are gone on the first day they become available and then lo and behold you can suddenly buy the tickets (for a considerable markup) elsewhere. The folks scooping up the tickets like this are parasites. The solution is to limit the number of tickets per person or to disallow reselling.<p>(Haven&#x27;t tried for a while out of frustration, might be different now)<p>I know, slightly tangential to the article.
robk将近 12 年前
How are the bot owners flipping these reservations? I imagine there must be some commercial value via secondary market (or direct to concierges, offline), as bot-writers probably aren&#x27;t actually using all these reservations themselves (or their friends). The more sane solution is to require full name when booking and ask for ID at the door. A name change has to be manually handled by the restaurant or would require rebooking. That would stop transfers and any market for these bookings.
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wil421将近 12 年前
The website is unreadable on a mobile device. I can&#x27;t zoom out.
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wdr1将近 12 年前
Having worked at Ticketmaster for a few years, the first thing that came to mind was the similarities in automated ticket-buying bots.<p>Thing is, is there really that much of an arbitrage opportunity with restaurant reservations? Is there a place I can go purchase restaurant reservations?
otterley将近 12 年前
My experience with restaurants is that if one is too popular, just wait a little while. Eventually the mob&#x27;s attention will turn to the next heretofore-undiscovered gem, and you&#x27;ll find it&#x27;s much easier to finally check out the previous one.
mathattack将近 12 年前
I don&#x27;t understand why they don&#x27;t do authentication to remove the bots if this really matters.<p>If it doesn&#x27;t matter, they should raise prices.<p>This is an issue in NYC. Some $300&#x2F;night restaurants have you hyperclicking the moment the reservations open up.
pron将近 12 年前
Priceless! When I studied history I learned how to recognize a significant historical document, and this definitely qualifies as one. I wonder what historians reading this two-hundred years from now would think of our culture.
franz12将近 12 年前
Next step: high frequency trading techniques applied to reservation making
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Ecio78将近 12 年前
just as information, I use the free service <a href="http://www.changedetection.com/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.changedetection.com&#x2F;</a> to send me email when webpages change (i.e. jobs opportunities). Unfortunately you can&#x27;t automate the procedure of logging in and&#x2F;or posting to searches, and I think the scheduling is once-a-day, so it wouldn&#x27;t have been very useful for the OP cron case
Eva_Peron将近 12 年前
Cool concept. Wonder if he could write a script to land a reservation at Dorsia. I think that might be asking a bit much, even for a bot.
hmottestad将近 12 年前
A perfect place to implement a captcha.
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btbuildem将近 12 年前
Next step in escalation: make a bot that books with fake names, sell primo reservations on Craigslist.
Havoc将近 12 年前
Next week: Co-location
iblaine将近 12 年前
After reading that I want 10 mins of my life back.
pclark将近 12 年前
tangential but has anyone been to state bird provisions? I keep meaning to go, but don&#x27;t because of the reservation saga.
beaker52将近 12 年前
Captcha?
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coin将近 12 年前
Site renders horribly on an ipad
michaelochurch将近 12 年前
Do people actually use &quot;foodie&quot; unironically? I thought that was something people invented to stereotype suburbanites who&#x27;d caught on to &quot;gourmet&quot; meaning absolutely nothing; I didn&#x27;t know until now that people actually called themselves &quot;foodies&quot;. Wow, it&#x27;s a weird world out there.
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zalew将近 12 年前
<i>&gt; This means that I&#x27;m bound to compete for reservations at good restaurants with the the hipsters</i><p>if this restaurant is so popular, isn&#x27;t it too mainstream for hipsters? &#x2F;philosoraptor
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