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Kickstart the GNUstep Project

175 点作者 0x09将近 12 年前

21 条评论

kunai将近 12 年前
Finally.<p>I have been extolling the virtues of Obj-C and Apple&#x2F;NeXT&#x27;s Cocoa&#x27;s APIs and its legendary user interface design since I first saw it. When I found out about GNUstep about a year ago, I kept asking myself why nobody else had picked it up.<p>I realized that the people who liked Obj-C and Cocoa just used OS X. GNUstep was a pointless waste of time for a Cocoa developer, but with OS X quickly seeming like the replacement for Windows on the desktop, I&#x27;m glad it&#x27;s finally picking up steam.<p>But, as we said prior, the people that care <i>just use OS X.</i> Their target platform is OS X. The Linux users are happy with WINE and GTK+. There&#x27;s nowhere for the project to go, and I fear that this Kickstarter will be a failed effort.<p>I&#x27;m putting down my cash for this. I want to see it succeed. I know it probably won&#x27;t.<p>If it does, well, the rest is history. Maybe it will jumpstart Obj-C x-platform like Mono did for C#.<p>------<p>also, for those interested in the NeXT-style look and feel, the Window Maker (GNUstep WM) LiveCDs have had consistent snapshots and are always updated; based on Debian testing: <a href="http://wmlive.sourceforge.net/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;wmlive.sourceforge.net&#x2F;</a>
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sillysaurus将近 12 年前
I&#x27;m sorry to be a downer, but there needs to be a reality check, because future open source projects can learn a thing or two from this.<p>This project is unlikely to be successfully funded. In fact, &quot;unlikely&quot; is a mild word for just how unlikely it is to succeed.<p>Problem #1 - No clear value demonstration to the end user. The video is... not very good. The primary reason it&#x27;s not very good is because it&#x27;s asking people to read. People react instinctively to faces, to the sound of a person&#x27;s voice, and to feeling connected with them. It&#x27;s no coincidence that virtually every successful Kickstarter campaign contains monologues by their campaign creators. Thus, while there may be a value proposition embedded somewhere in the video, it&#x27;s probably lost on most people who watch it because they just aren&#x27;t really identifying with what is being presented.<p>Problem #2 - a $25 minimum price point. The gamedev industry has repeatedly proven that by enabling people to contribute $5 and $10, you reap about 20-40% more income than you otherwise would have. This truth isn&#x27;t restricted to the domain of gamedev. The evidence for this is that virtually every successful Kickstarter project has low-tier contribution levels, often contributing a significant amount to the bottom-line of projects that aren&#x27;t going to deliver a tangible product. E.g. this may not be so important for projects like Soylent, where the end-user will receive something tangible, but it&#x27;s pretty important for most projects that weren&#x27;t set up with the goal of taking preorders.<p>Problem #3 - Too high of a threshold for funding. $50k is not reasonable when the value proposition is so unclear. I could see this project reaching $5k or maybe even $10k. But it&#x27;s not reasonable to calculate how much it would cost you to work on it, and then use that as the funding goal. &quot;What would the crowds be willing to pay?&quot; takes priority over &quot;How much would this cost me in terms of my time, and what is my time worth?&quot;
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sthatipamala将近 12 年前
I&#x27;m still really sad that the Etoile OS project died out. (<a href="http://etoileos.com/etoile/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;etoileos.com&#x2F;etoile&#x2F;</a>) Maybe it can start up again if GNUStep catches up to 10.6.
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jbellis将近 12 年前
Gregory Casamento, the Kickstarter author, is Chief Maintainer of GNUstep: <a href="http://www.gnustep.org/developers/whoiswho.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gnustep.org&#x2F;developers&#x2F;whoiswho.html</a>
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asveikau将近 12 年前
I had my first exposure to Objective-C using GNUstep on a Linux box in about 2002. I am grateful that it existed and it was there for me to be exposed to it; I was pretty young and probably could not have afforded a Mac in those days.<p>As objc and Apple itself has gained so much steam over the years, it&#x27;s kind of funny to have learned it long ago via a clone of NeXT stuff. Most folks working in the language have no idea that it could possibly exist outside of Apple and tend to think of all the framework underneath them as a black box. I think maybe some of these folks would learn something by looking at an open source re-implementation of these NS* classes, or attempting such an endeavor themselves, even if on a small scale.<p>Also: objc is just too interesting for Apple to hog it all for themselves, or for it to be a one-implementation language.
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Argorak将近 12 年前
My biggest problem with GNUstep is that there is never any mention of an OS X build.<p>There was one, but it is pretty broken and answers to inquiries were basically answered with &quot;why would you even want to do that&quot;?<p>Quite simply: for testing purposes! Most Cocoa applications are developed on Macs, so being able to build them with the &quot;other&quot; framework on the same machine would help alot.
reedlaw将近 12 年前
While I&#x27;m glad to see the effort to enable more cross-platform application development, I wonder why the open source community doesn&#x27;t produce its own cross-platform toolkit to rival those made by Apple and Microsoft. It seems that far too often the vision behind open source projects is limited to copying successful closed-source projects. I understand it&#x27;s much harder to launch an open source project in an altogether new category, but it&#x27;s that much more exciting when it does happen. How can innovation be encouraged in open source? It seems somehow there needs to be a greater potential for financial reward to encourage such developments.
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trumbitta2将近 12 年前
The video says Elegant, then a picture appears and all I see is &quot;old&quot;. Then the video says Simple, and other qualities, and all I see is pictures of something appearing &quot;old&quot;.<p>I mean, I was there 15 years ago, and Windowmaker on Debian 2.[0|1|2] was my environment of choice. I loved it.<p>But as I write from my new MBPr, I see pictures of something appearing &quot;old&quot;.<p>That&#x27;s why I hope the campaign is funded, but I know that it can and will be funded mainly by developers. And developers not caring much for that part of the UX which we call look &amp; feel.<p>Unless of course somebody is doing a better video with more modern screenshots while I&#x27;m writing.
mikecsh将近 12 年前
I&#x27;ve backed this because I&#x27;d like it to succeed. However, I think Cocotron had a far better chance at succeeding with their philosophy of using Xcode and cross compiling to other platforms. This drastically reduces the barrier to entry for the majority of Cocoa developers and lets them use Apple&#x27;s (excellent) developer tools. It&#x27;s a shame there isn&#x27;t more collaboration between the two projects but I understand this is down to licensing differences.
latj将近 12 年前
Anyone know how close it is to 10.6? I havent looked at it in years but this seems like a big job and a low price.
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return0将近 12 年前
GNUStep has been stagnant for years, it is obvious that nobody finds it interesting. I understand that developers are willing to put up with some anachronisms to make money off iOS&#x2F;OSX , but they clearly opted away from them for open source. I don&#x27;t see how money is going to change its appeal.
synchronise将近 12 年前
Does GNUstep support any languages other than Objective-C?
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malkia将近 12 年前
If you are able to get WebObjects 4.5.1, then you can take a glimpse of how GNUStep should&#x27;ve been done on the Windows.<p>Sorry, but detachable menus, while great (and I love them in Autodesk Maya, but they start out as regular ones) would not make lots of people happy. Even Apple more than 15 years ago realized that, and their menus on Windows looked like Windows.<p>This is what for example ActiveDeveloper, an IDE based on WebObjects looked like:<p><a href="http://img.brothersoft.com/screenshots/softimage/a/activedeveloper-88285-1.jpeg" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;img.brothersoft.com&#x2F;screenshots&#x2F;softimage&#x2F;a&#x2F;activedev...</a>
stuaxo将近 12 年前
It might be worth looking at how pypy does donations .. the donations are towards specific subprojects (eg numpypy, stm).<p>This isn&#x27;t listed on the front page of the project .. (and the Donations link, just goes to a wiki !? )
hbbio将近 12 年前
TL;DR: It would be great to see GNUstep catch up with Cocoa, the guy who run the campaign IS the project lead, but the only thing that may prevent the campaign to succeed is the very poor marketing level.
adamio将近 12 年前
What is the estimated man-hours required to complete this project?
chalst将近 12 年前
What does &quot;Darling integration&quot; mean? Darling already depends on Gnustep, doesn&#x27;t it?
jvoorhis将近 12 年前
LiveCD?
_pmf_将近 12 年前
It&#x27;s dead, Jim.
hardwaresofton将近 12 年前
What about TideSDK?<p><a href="http://www.tidesdk.org/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.tidesdk.org&#x2F;</a>
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desireco42将近 12 年前
I am sorry but I don&#x27;t see the point of this.
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