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Obama said the NSA wasn’t “actually abusing” its powers. He was wrong

253 点作者 binarybits将近 12 年前

19 条评论

dmix将近 12 年前
&gt; Now part of the reason they’re not abused is because they’re — these checks are in place, and those abuses would be against the law and would be against the orders of the FISC<p>Greenwald has been writing about the total ineffectiveness of judicial checks on state power for over a decade, primarily since Bush vastly increased executive branch reach and began using the state secrets privilege as a protective shield, crippling the ability for courts to properly prevent abuses.<p>See &quot;Elimination of judicial check on executive power&quot; on Wikipedia, citing an article from 7 years ago (2006):<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_secrets_privilege#Elimination_of_judicial_check_on_executive_power" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;State_secrets_privilege#Elimin...</a><p>It seems people are just beginning to pay attention to what Greenwald has been warning us about for a long time.
acqq将近 12 年前
Senator Ron Wyden on NSA Surveillance and Government Transparency:<p><a href="http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/q-a-senator-ron-wyden-on-nsa-surveillance-and-government-transparency-20130815" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.rollingstone.com&#x2F;politics&#x2F;news&#x2F;q-a-senator-ron-wy...</a><p><i>When Congress wrote the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act in 1978, I suppose they could have found some way to keep its details a secret, so that Soviet agents wouldn&#x27;t know what the FBI and NSA&#x27;s authorities were. But Congress made that law public, because it&#x27;s a fundamental principle of democracy that laws should be public all the time, and every American should be able to find out what their government thinks the law means.<p>The FISA court is arguably the most bizarre court in the United States. This is the only court I know of that is structured to hear essentially one side – it comes from the government. A group of judges operating in complete secret and issuing binding rulings based solely on the government&#x27;s arguments have made possible the sweeping surveillance authorities the public only found out about [recently.] What&#x27;s noteworthy is there has been nobody there to argue the other side, and that is what we want to change. This court has to be reformed to include an adversarial process where arguments for greater privacy protections can be offered alongside the government&#x27;s arguments for greater surveillance powers. It should have a selection process that produces a more diverse group of judges, and a process to ensure that its important rulings are made public so that American people can understand exactly what government agencies think the laws allow them to do. It was a lack of protections like these that allowed secret law to persist for so many years.</i>
teawithcarl将近 12 年前
The chief judge of the FISA Court says &quot;ability of the FISA Courts to police spying is limited&quot;.<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/court-ability-to-police-us-spying-program-limited/2013/08/15/4a8c8c44-05cd-11e3-a07f-49ddc7417125_story.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.washingtonpost.com&#x2F;politics&#x2F;court-ability-to-poli...</a><p>PHOTOS of the 12 FISA Court judges. 11 of the 12 were appointed to bench by Bush or Reagan.<p>Only one man appoints judges to the FISA Court - Supreme Court Chief Justice Roberts.<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/meet-the-foreign-intelligence-surveillance-court/2013/06/24/9c037ee6-dd16-11e2-9218-bc2ac7cd44e2_gallery.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.washingtonpost.com&#x2F;politics&#x2F;meet-the-foreign-inte...</a>
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alan_cx将近 12 年前
&quot;At a news conference Friday, President Obama insisted that the threat of NSA abuses was mostly theoretical:&quot;<p>As are the vast majority of the &quot;threats&quot; we are suppose to give up our freedoms for. We live in a &quot;what if&quot; society.
ck2将近 12 年前
I have a better question about that.<p>Was he just wrong because he just didn&#x27;t know?<p>Or was it much worse in that he knew and was outright lying?<p>Because I would honestly like to really know.
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onoj将近 12 年前
Am I misunderstanding something here - surely the information Snowden revealed is that the NSA is dumping EVERY electronic communication in a huge data dump all the time. Then they are saying &quot;sometimes&quot; they search for the wrong things in that archive? Isn&#x27;t the issue that they are archiving everything we do in the first place?
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danenania将近 12 年前
Interesting to see that &quot;wrong&quot; and &quot;mistaken&quot; have now become synonyms for &quot;powerful government official lying through his teeth&quot;.
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millerc将近 12 年前
&gt; interception of a “large number” of calls placed from Washington when a programming error confused U.S. area code 202 for 20, the international dialing code for Egypt, according to a “quality assurance” review<p>Oh please give me a break. This is the worse they could come up with, a typographical error that produced large swaths of unusable data for analysts? Seems like a normal part of any computer systems: a typo <i>will</i> cause unintended consequences.<p>Sensationalist reporting and blatant exploitation of minor plot twist shouldn&#x27;t make it to any serious news outlet, let alone HN. Let&#x27;s keep it serious guys.
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jonnybgood将近 12 年前
Obama may not be wrong at all if these are unintentional violations. However, Obama may well be wrong if they were intentional actions in accordance with NSA standard of operating procedure (SOP). So, the NSA isn&#x27;t actually abusing its powers, just as Obama stated. Just an awful NSA employee who is not following the SOP.<p>I think that&#x27;s an important distinction and perhaps the point Obama was making.
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nu2ycombinator将近 12 年前
Hey.. Please understand the Obama&#x27;s position too. You never know what secrets of Obama NSA has. :)
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shirederby将近 12 年前
Was he &quot;wrong&quot; or was he lying?<p>It&#x27;s possible that he was misinformed by his advisers and indeed did not actually know. But I am not optimistic about that notion.
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jaekwon将近 12 年前
This strategy of slow trickling information is working out pretty well. Good job, team.
ry0ohki将近 12 年前
It seems super suspicious the &quot;202&quot; to &quot;20&quot; mistake occurred for more than a single call, and it just so happens your political enemies are in the area code mistaken?
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northwest将近 12 年前
Was he &quot;wrong&quot; or was he lying? I&#x27;d say that&#x27;s secondary, in some way.<p>The first thing that matters is <i>the result</i>. And it continues<p>a) to be unacceptable, and<p>b) to not be addressed
DHowett将近 12 年前
I would argue that a world wherein the NSA is not abusing its power is a world wherein that power was already granted them.
JonSkeptic将近 12 年前
I read the title and I think, &quot;Obama says lots of things.&quot;<p><a href="http://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.politifact.com&#x2F;personalities&#x2F;barack-obama&#x2F;</a>
sparticvs将近 12 年前
He said that because he wanted them to do that
alexeisadeski3将近 12 年前
Yes we can!
codex将近 12 年前
Wrong. This isn&#x27;t abuse. The audit found only unintentional spying--in other words, mistakes. No organization is perfect; bugs do exist, especially in software. It&#x27;s pretty amazing to see the detail at which these incidents were logged, however.
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