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Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

341 点作者 rjsamson将近 12 年前

43 条评论

alphaoverlord将近 12 年前
I&#x27;m all for people having the freedom to eat whatever they want and I really like the quantified self aspect of seeing how diet affects how they feel and metrics of health, but I have to say the author grossly does not understand the medical tests he had done and misinterprets the data. I&#x27;m not going to comment on the drink, but rather on his misunderstanding of medicine.<p>First, EGFR is not &quot;Epidermal Growth Factor Receptor&quot;, rather is it estimated glomerular filtration rate, which is a metric of kidney function and is derived entirely from age, sex, and Cr.<p>Second, all his labs are normal, well within the range of normal and stay normal after two weeks. There is normal daily fluctuation (for example, my Cr will probably go from 1 to 1.2 just by not drinking water for a day) which the labs show. All the changes he mention in his metabolic panel does not even register to me as changes and most likely would happen had he ate a regular diet.<p>Third, the body is a powerfully homeostatic system, even had he not ate for two weeks, most of the labs he got would stay the same. Recently, on HN there was the article of the guy who didn&#x27;t eat for a year - his BMP would have been similar. The only potentially reasonable medical test to get would have been the lipid panel, which stayed grossly the same.<p>Finally, a DEXA scan is really silly in this scenario. It&#x27;s for old ladies and others at risk for osteoporosis. Your bones are a large of reservoir that it wouldn&#x27;t put a dent on your Ca levels even if you had no Ca for two weeks, and even if it did, it would not show up as a meaningful change on a DEXA scan.
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cup将近 12 年前
Soylent aside, im amazed at how terrible his traditional normal days meal is? I mean hes eating a processed breakfast subsitute in the morning, take away mexican food with a soft drink for lunch and more take away for dinner.<p>You don&#x27;t need to be a nutritionist to know thats going to have a terrible impact on his life later down the track.<p>Postnote: Now that Ive read the whole article, I wonder if all the benefits he attributes to Soylent could actually be attributed to cutting so much crap out of his diet?
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tsumnia将近 12 年前
I&#x27;m still reading this, but this paragraph just made me incredibly frustrated:<p>&quot;...The white stuff that was mixed into the tan stuff was floating to the top and congealing together... So I just started just scooping them out... I’m pretty sure the white chunks were the rice protein, and perhaps something else important.&quot;<p>You&#x27;re the first review of Soylent, and you throwing away blobs because ...? It looked icky? This is a meal replacement focused on giving you exactly what your body needs, and it just seems like a terrible move to throw &#x27;what your body needs&#x27; away.
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stiff将近 12 年前
It&#x27;s very, very naive to think that you can simply put all the recommended dosages of vitamins and macro-&#x2F;micro- elements into a single shake and have it fulfil all the nutritional needs. You need enzymes to digest food, specific enzymes and specific chemical conditions for absorbing specific nutrients, and you can not intake all nutrients from a single portion of food because, well, physics happens. There is a fundamental need of the human body for variety in food intake. You can get some idea of how complicated this gets from reading papers on some commonly known patterns of nutrient interaction, like copper+zinc:<p><a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3625315" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;pubmed&#x2F;3625315</a><p><a href="http://jn.nutrition.org/content/130/5/1378S.full" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;jn.nutrition.org&#x2F;content&#x2F;130&#x2F;5&#x2F;1378S.full</a>
jyu将近 12 年前
Soylent is quickly becoming a great case study on marketing and human behavior. These guys have definitely hit on something people want. However, I do not have confidence that this team can deliver on Soylent&#x27;s promises.<p>There are many other reasons to be skeptical of Soylent, even from a cursory read on Wikipedia, the website, and Kickstarter page. First, the diet has caused Rob Rhinehart anemia, tachylcardia, arrhythmia, and joint pain from taking Soylent (from Wikipedia, Economist article). While the formula has changed since, do you trust a diet that only months ago caused the creator serious health ailments? Secondly, even if Rob Rhinehart has no nutrition background, and neither does anyone else on the Soylent team. I would expect someone on the team that knows something about nutrition. Looking on the website the Soylent team includes no mention of a nutritionist or dietician or foods manufacturing expert; key people in developing a new meal replacement product. Thirdly, anything to do with creating a new, stand alone meal replacement product requires someone know about the foods business or operations or something along those lines. It is not clear that their current team understands how far you can go with marketing claims, how to test medical claims, nutrient interactions, etc.<p>This is not the first time people have been skeptical of Soylent, and certainly not the last. There are so many red flags from just a quick search and gut checking against their claims that I would definitely not recommend it to anyone I know, let alone trying it out myself.
malbs将近 12 年前
The guy claim himself to be a &quot;mildly out of shape 28 year old&quot;, and then state: &quot;I consider myself a pretty health-conscious person. No alcohol. No meat. Slow-carbs when possible. Run three miles, three times a week. Pull-ups, push-ups on the days I don’t run&quot; which indicates he&#x27;s more active than 90% of the population (I just made that stat up)<p>I was irritated from that point on-wards.
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theboss将近 12 年前
This soylent discussion that I constantly see on HN is what happens when computer nerds who know nothing about nutrition (and a couple who do) talk about health.<p>This guy is going to make a ton of money but I think that people should be thinking, &quot;Do I really want to live a life where I don&#x27;t have time for food or I don&#x27;t enjoy preparing and eating it&quot;.<p>Personally I think it is kind of sad and hope in the future that &#x27;Eating&#x27; doesn&#x27;t become what &#x27;face-to-face communication&#x27; or &#x27;playing outside&#x27; has become today.....
ekianjo将近 12 年前
You don&#x27;t just do a test for 2 weeks and expect to find something significant out of it. Go for one year, 2 years and then let&#x27;s find out what really happens then.
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secstate将近 12 年前
When are people going to start appreciating the biology of the human species for the miracle that it is? I&#x27;m not talking faith-based logic here ... but consider for a moment that the placebo effect exists.<p>That&#x27;s it. Game over for nutrition science.<p>You can convince someone&#x27;s mind to change physical attributes of their body using psychology.<p>Who&#x27;s to say this guy&#x27;s brain wasn&#x27;t really excited about the prospect of a new diet that he was told by a really smart dude was going to make him more productive and healthier? Hook, line, sinker.<p>This also doesn&#x27;t address any of the social rituals associated with food. Personally, for me, breakfast is the only meal that is removable, but that&#x27;s because I&#x27;m not a morning person. I telecommute and have a family. Sitting down to lunch with my kids and wife (or just wife, <i>joy</i> when the kiddos are in school), is a great break in my day.<p>And dinner ... don&#x27;t even get me started. I love sitting down to dinner. Makes me really just feel sorry for single folks whose lives revolve around productivity to such an extent.
deathanatos将近 12 年前
Has anyone considered the cultural implications of something like this? Meals, to me, are not just about eating — they offer a valuable break in the day to interact with people. I&#x27;m not sure that&#x27;ll be the same if we&#x27;re all eating grey goo. (Just stick a needle in me then…) The meal can often be a source of conversation — at least, if it isn&#x27;t the same thing, every day. I&#x27;m thinking co-workers, and going to lunch: will soylent-users decline invites for lunch, because they have their grey goo? (They could potentially bring it with them, but wasn&#x27;t the whole point to be lazy?)<p>I also, on occasion, find cooking to be a good way to de-stress. I get to make something that nobody else will ever care about. (My SO just loves that I made something, so in a sense, I&#x27;m fulfilling the soylent&#x27;s &quot;too lazy to cook&quot; … but my way is tastier.) I get to snack (I regularly sample the (safe!) raw ingredients, the partially cooked meal…). I get time to just think to myself. Eating the same thing every day would be depressing. Mouse said it well:<p>&gt; Dozer: It&#x27;s a single cell protein combined with synthetic aminos, vitamins, and minerals. Everything the body needs.<p>&gt; Mouse: It doesn&#x27;t have everything the body needs.<p>(I&#x27;m also of the mindset that cooking isn&#x27;t hard. Boiling water can make a lot of things, requires little oversight, and is dead simple. And oh so much tastier. That said, I know someone who would sign up for something like this…)
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redacted将近 12 年前
&quot;Rob is a Y Combinator alumnus with professional experience in electrical engineering, computer science and entrepreneurship. Lacking the means to produce cheap energy, he invented a form of fusion as a more efficient approach to powering his home and hopes to use it to reduce the global disparity of electrification.&quot;<p>On one hand, the entire field of nutritional science (and several associated topics), coupled with a wealthy and powerful nutrition industry who, despite literally decades of research, have never succeeded in creating a total meal replacement. Oh, and don&#x27;t forget the world&#x27;s militaries, who throw enormous amounts of money at research groups for anything even remotely useful and for who full meal replacements would be a holy grail.<p>On the other, this one computer hacker dude who is going to &#x27;disrupt&#x27; the expert opinion and hundreds of thousands of years of human evolution. He read some papers guys!<p>Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And yet the sum total evidence is &#x27;Me and my friends haven&#x27;t died yet, and we feel good&#x27;. His company still has no staff with biology experience, and the blog sells more merchandise than science.<p>Still, otherwise incredibly smart and driven people on HN eat this up.
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russellallen将近 12 年前
I enjoy eating more than I enjoy most other things I do, so saving time by not eating in order to spend more time doing other stuff doesn&#x27;t really appeal...<p>Oh well. I guess there must be people out there who spend all their time doing things more fascinating and enjoyable than eating a tasty meal.
lingben将近 12 年前
More pseudo-science from Tim. Sigh.
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jerf将近 12 年前
“Last night I had a dream that I ate a brownie, and halfway through the brownie realized that I was only supposed to be eating Soylent for the next two weeks.”<p>I&#x27;m 35, and I&#x27;ve known I have Celiac disease for about five years now. I still have that dream about every month or two, excepting of course that I realize I&#x27;m going to be very sick instead of being supposed to eat&#x2F;drink&#x2F;consume only Soylent.
damian2000将近 12 年前
How different is Soylent from some existing protein shake products (eg. muscle milk)? these also contain fats, carbs, protein and vitamins.
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rdl将近 12 年前
What I don&#x27;t get about all the criticism of Soylent is that people seem to be comparing it to a perfect diet of conventional food -- the most likely alternative for most of the users is far worse than that, and probably worse than even the most naive form of Soylent.<p>I&#x27;d love to try something like Soylent when away from my kitchen for weeks at a time. I&#x27;m going to be in the Nevada desert for two weeks doing something I enjoy (NOT Burning Man! A bunch of shotgun&#x2F;pistol classes at Frontsight next month!), and not having to deal with food when waking up at 0430 and going to bed at 2230 every day would be really nice. It looks a bit too heavy on carbs and too light on protein for my taste, but it wouldn&#x27;t be hard to cut it with protein powder or something.<p>The biggest practical problem I see is &quot;tastes best at &lt;42F&quot;. Powders, especially with fat and protein, mix poorly in cold water, and cold water isn&#x27;t always available. Something which worked better at 60-80F would be ideal.<p>(As it is, the most practical thing for me is probably beef jerky, fiber and vitamin pills, lots of water, and a few trips to steakhouses. Maybe some Capriotti&#x27;s sandwiches in a cooler.)
curuinor将近 12 年前
This is all a bit silly.<p>Here&#x27;s an advertisement for a bunch of full meal replacements for people of normal health or crappier:<p><a href="http://www.abbottnutrition.ca/static/cms_workspace/en_CA/content/document/DIR134A08.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.abbottnutrition.ca&#x2F;static&#x2F;cms_workspace&#x2F;en_CA&#x2F;con...</a><p>As you can see, they&#x27;ve been on the market for decades, and people have been using them as sole-source nutrition for decades.
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nazgulnarsil将近 12 年前
I&#x27;ll keep bumping my open source, whole food, cheaper alternative as long as soylent remains popular. I&#x27;ve been using this as about 40% of my calories for about a year now and my blood panel numbers are great.<p><a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjA38cUd4BZBdGZYM012N0JZTzEtVk05MVF4dlZyZ2c" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.google.com&#x2F;spreadsheet&#x2F;ccc?key=0AjA38cUd4BZBdGZ...</a>
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ogig将近 12 年前
When Soylent is talked about here i&#x27;m surprised by the amount of people who seems to like the idea. I couldn&#x27;t understand why would anyone, at anytime pick a Soylent meal over something else. Then i read this article and see the picture of the author&#x27;s normal everyday food, and reading the comments here others say this is in fact an average American diet.<p>I don&#x27;t want to sound harsh, but you are missing something big about life if you dismiss the pleasure of tasty food, the social moment of eating, and health benefits of a varied, natural diet.<p>I&#x27;m from Spain, eating is important here. It&#x27;s something beyond nutrition, is about people. You sit at the table while chatting and enjoying the taste of the seasonal ingredients. There are gastronomic events during the whole year, and having conversations about this or that thing you ate, or a new restaurant found, is common. Some of my life &quot;best moments&quot; were around a table.<p>To my eyes Soylent proposal is akin to replace the sexual act from reproduction just because it&#x27;s a waste of time.
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Reventon将近 12 年前
With the plethora of well known and well researched meal replacement solutions out there, why is Soylent getting so much attention?
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sirsar将近 12 年前
I have a big problem with the &quot;you might miss unknown-to-science micronutrients&quot; argument. If that&#x27;s the case with Soylent, it should also be the case for the average person&#x27;s diet, which is far from optimal.<p>I&#x27;d rather get all my protein, fat, carbs, vitamins, etc and potentially miss an unknown nutrient than eat what I currently do.
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bparsons将近 12 年前
Most people&#x27;s diets are horrible. It is really hard to eat anything even close to balanced-- especially if you eat out at different restaurants quite often.<p>So, even if these guys don&#x27;t really know what they are doing, even someone with the most basic understanding of nutrition could concoct something, that if consumed in the prescribed portion each day, would be better than what 90% of the population is eating.<p>Users are controlling their calories, getting a mix of micro-nutrients, with their ratio of macro-nutrients set up at a reasonable proportion.<p>If this business continues, I would imagine that different proportions of macro and micro nutrients would be offered depending on the consumers health profile and nutrition goals.
mathattack将近 12 年前
He lost weight, but his body fat % went up. D&#x27;oh! Seems like a lot of water loss. And losing 3% of your dry (muscle) mass seems worrying, especially since he got enough protein. Perhaps these measurements aren&#x27;t very specific?
FrankBlack将近 12 年前
He didn&#x27;t stop eating. He stopped chewing.
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graeme将近 12 年前
I just posted this to Tim&#x27;s Blog:<p>---------------------<p>It seems probable that soylent is better than much of the manufactured food on the market. It also seems unlikely that soylent is better than quality whole food.<p>I take Nassim Taleb&#x27;s approach. We don’t know what we don’t know about food. I’d like to address two of Shane’s points. I&#x27;m listing the objections Shane raises, then his reply:<p>Shane&#x27;s first point:<p>Objection: The body needs whole foods, not atomic nutrients; the synergy between diverse ingredients is what matters in nutritional uptake. Shane&#x27;s reply –&gt; This sounds nice, but has not been scientifically proven. (Shane links to the naturalistic fallacy)<p>My reply: It’s true that nature doesn’t prove something is good. We can nonetheless have a strong presumption that the body does best on whole foods.<p>We have thousands of years of history of humans doing well on whole foods, and zero evidence that the human body can do as well on artificial foods.<p>Nassim Taleb would tell us there is a presumption in favour of natural system that has stood the test of time. Human biology is very, very complex. If whole foods serve it well, they may do so for reasons we can fathom.<p>One problem for Soylent is that it would have to prove itself safe on the timescale of a human lifetime. That’s very, very hard to do.<p>Shane’s second point<p>Objection: We don’t know what we don’t know about nutrition (i.e. Soylent might be unexpectedly harmful). Shane&#x27;s reply —&gt; That’s not a good reason to not try to innovate. Why not do some tests?<p>My reply: See my point above. How can you test that Soylent is better than whole foods? There is a massive potential for false positives.<p>With natural foods, if something seems effective, it probably is. We would have discovered poisonous or second order effects long ago.<p>With an artificial food like soylent, it could appear effective for, say, ten years, while introducing a variety of malignant effects.<p>Or maybe it is totally healthy. I have no idea. How can we know? You can’t prove a good is safe without using it for a long, long time.<p>That said, I would expect soylent to be better than a diet of pure artificial junk food, as many americans eat. They’re also engineered foods, but in that case we can positively identify the harm.<p>One additional problem of soylent: the designers assume we need a steady inejection of the same macronutrients every time we eat.<p>We know positively that this is false. Bodybuilders have long known that carbohydrates are more effective after a workout. As with increased protein after a workout.
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helgeman将近 12 年前
The main issue i have with this is not wether it works or not. Even if it would be as healthy as the healthiest foods you could cook and it would therefore &quot;work&quot; i still would despise this. Why? First off I think somethings simply do not need to be fixed. The making, eating and sharing of food is one of life&#x27;s greatest pleasures. It is like saying .. well how can i fix this this sex thing? its taking too much of my time away.<p>I know there are indeed people who don&#x27;t have much time because they are very busy. My suggestion is indeed .. fix your time management and&#x2F;or your schedule instead of fixing your food.<p>If you dont enjoy food than i would suggest there is something wrong with you. Because we were all programmed to enjoy it .. like sex .. it is one of our main motivators in life.
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Shorel将近 12 年前
More people are hacking their diet, in other ways than simply changing the base ingredients but keeping the same macro ratios, and keeping the accepted nutrition guidelines. In other words, it is not much of an improvement over the status quo that&#x27;s making the USA fat.<p>If Soylent fails, it is also because of the inherent failure with the accepted nutrition guidelines.<p>The other people who are hacking their diets, with great success, are commonly referred as the Keto community. We don&#x27;t have “tired headaches” like the poster.<p>For us, 45g of fat and 400g of carbohydrates seem way too unhealthy. Make it the other way around and we can talk.
zekenie将近 12 年前
Even with all the data he&#x27;s recorded, you just can&#x27;t draw any sort of conclusions from this. The diet&#x27;s effects on health can take years to take effect. Just because his standard blood panels are normal for two weeks doesn&#x27;t mean it isn&#x27;t causing problems. Specifically, the bioavailibility of the supplements in soylent may not be high. I think it could be really dangerous to eat this stuff as your primary source of food for a long period of time. Eating it from time to time, though, could be convenient and nutritious.
dinkumthinkum将近 12 年前
So, I see a lot of people excited about this Soylent stuff here and that&#x27;s great but to those that actually excited by this and are very interested in replacing all your meals and &quot;don&#x27;t understand what the big deal is about food, other than the not dying part&quot; ... do you all expect anyone to take you seriously as human beings? I mean that in the most sincere way possible. It just looks so ridiculous and honestly, somewhat pretentious: &quot;Oh I would never waste my time with food.&quot; Maybe I&#x27;m the crazy one.
enscr将近 12 年前
Soylent completely discounts the act of chewing. It&#x27;s not needed for the mechanical action, but for its chemical benefits. Maybe they can ship a chewing toy or something with the crinky bags :)<p><a href="http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=dailytip&amp;dbid=337" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;whfoods.org&#x2F;genpage.php?tname=dailytip&amp;dbid=337</a>
Semiapies将近 12 年前
If this is something someone could live on, why does this guy&#x27;s experience eating it sound <i>exactly</i> like a fast?
smcl将近 12 年前
The pictures he takes reminds me of those deceptive &quot;before&quot; and &quot;after&quot; shots from makeover shows (dour, poorly lit shot before, and lovely smiling pic after). It starts with him looking a bit peaky with his face illuminated by artificial light and ends with him grinning in the sunshine.
chmike将近 12 年前
Ask author: did you kept regular &quot;eating&quot; times or did you sip here and there from the bottle ?<p>How did the eating time socialization worked out ? Did you zap them ?<p>How would you explain the fact that you seamed intellectually more alert ? Do you think it can only be the food ? Or could the fitness you did contribute to it ?
siculars将近 12 年前
What I get out of this and, by proxy, a lot of successful crowd funding is that it is a market validator. This guy will no doubt make some money on selling Soylent, but what will also happen is that a large multinational will swoop in with more credible competition.
c0rtex将近 12 年前
It would be very exciting to see some long-term study results on this.<p>Also: Q: As long as we&#x27;re food hacking, why not open-source it and post it on GitHub? A: It&#x27;s a liquid. You can&#x27;t fork it.<p>But seriously, the open-source version of this could be the nutritional version of the OLPC.
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krallja将近 12 年前
Cutting caffeine probably caused the big changes in heart rate.
OhHeyItsE将近 12 年前
Wow! A meal replacement powder! Groundbreaking! Why are we talking about this again? Oh right. Because Tim Ferris is talking about it.
conjectures将近 12 年前
Medical issues aside, do I really want to buy a food substitute named after a dodgy scifi flick about industrial scale cannibalism?
saejox将近 12 年前
I will never understand why would anyone eat the same food everyday. Eating is fun, more fun than anything i know of.
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theorique将近 12 年前
What does soylent give you that a vitamix and a fridge full of fresh fruit, vegetables, and nuts does not?
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pothibo将近 12 年前
Most of what he described in the first days could have been caused by fructose withdrawal syndrome.
reillyse将近 12 年前
First time I&#x27;ve read the whole way through a blog post in a long long time. Nice writing!
lsiebert将近 12 年前
So where are the animal tests?