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Animals can tell right from wrong

30 点作者 hko将近 16 年前

5 条评论

pj将近 16 年前
I think this is a really important study. Humans are so arrogant to believe that other species of animals, (humans <i>are</i> animals, don't forget) do not have emotions or thoughts or communicate with each other in a manner more complex than what we hear as a bark or a chirp.<p>How do we know they aren't communicating concepts as complicated as "Be careful there is a human approaching and it looks dangerous." with one syllable?<p>If you look at trends in human communication, across all languages, then you'll find syllable reduction increases as the word frequency increases. There are only 9 words in the 100 most common english words that have more than one syllable, and none with more than 2. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_common_words_in_English" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_common_words_in_English</a><p>If you look up these words in the dictionary, they are the most difficult to describe. Compare the definition of "the" to the definition of "superfluous" <a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/the" rel="nofollow">http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/the</a> <a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/superfluous" rel="nofollow">http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/superfluous</a><p>This pattern is not just found in English. Some, perhaps most, Asian languages even include tones in single syllable words to indicate different meanings.<p>It could be argued then, that perhaps the consciousness of animals is actually more advanced than human consciousness. Who knows? Just because we don't understand them doesn't mean they aren't complex, perhaps the very reason we do not understand them is <i>because</i> they are more complex forms of communication than human communication.<p>Why too then can't this same principle be applied to their concepts of right and wrong? Their morality?<p>I don't know any animal, other than humans, that will kill another animal just for the sheer pleasure of it. That seems quite morally corrupt. Animals kill other animals for what appear to be rationalizable reasons, food, competition, self-preservation.<p>Even when fighting for mates, the loser of a battle is allowed to escape with its life. Sometimes accidents happen and the animals die of injuries, but death is not the intent. Humans <i>intend</i> to kill when they battle.
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philwelch将近 16 年前
"Tell right from wrong" is a conjectural extrapolation. What this really tells me is that animals observe social protocol. Now, perhaps morality is no more than social protocol. But all of these "moral" behaviors have important practical consequences.
ellyagg将近 16 年前
How is this controversial? Anyone who literally thought that animals had nothing analogous to morality or who didn't understand the evolutionary underpinnings of morality was not being serious.<p>Nevertheless, the difference in intelligence (and thus scope of morality) between humans and most animals is so vast in degree that it becomes a difference in kind. Also, I still like eating tasty animals.
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req2将近 16 年前
When in doubt, blame the journalist, not the scientist, but this is some pretty deficient evidence.<p>&#62; On three occasion the male monkey picked up tokens she dropped and inserted them into the slot and allowed her to have the food.<p>&#62; As there was no benefit for the male monkey, Prof Bekoff argues that this is a clear example of an animal's actions being driven by some internal moral compass.<p>Primates participate in a good deal of social behavior based on reciprocal exchange, e.g., social grooming. The lack of immediate obvious benefit for the male monkey ignores the benefits of e.g., greater friendship, and ignores the dangers of "stealing" food from an older, possibly more dominant monkey. This example is interesting, but no more "moral" than any other one-sided benevolent exchange that you can find in monkey societies.<p>&#62; Recent research from Switzerland also showed that rats will help a rat, to which it is not related, to obtain food if they themselves have benefited from the charity of others. <i>This reciprocity was thought to be restricted to primates.</i><p>Next paragraph...<p>&#62; Those who are successful in foraging for blood will share their meal with bats who are not successful. They are more likely to share with bats who had previously shared with them. Prof Bekoff believes <i>this reciprocity</i> is a result of a sense of affiliation that binds groups of animals together.<p>(My emphasis.) The bat data has been known for over 15 years, and the lack of internal consistency is likely the journalist, but the science is still... stretching pretty far. It is not uncommon for vampire bats to find "bat buddies" with whom they predominantly share their excess food. This activity is easily traced through reciprocal altruism to selfishness.<p>&#62; Some studies have shown that animals experience hormonal changes that lead them to "crave" social interaction.<p>Yes, like estrus, or ovulation in humans. This fact is unimportant and does not relate to morality.<p>&#62; They also have three times as many spindle cells compared to humans and are thought to be older in evolutionary terms.<p>We know so little of the workings of the brain or of spindle /neurons/ that stating an absolute difference (without reference to the fourfold or greater size difference (sorry, no reference to whale neuron count on hand))) as if it means something is silly. They exist in whales, which is important, but in humans they have been implicated in emotion, spatial awareness, and touch. Would whales having a sense of touch be a radical notion?<p>&#62; This finding has suggested that complex emotional judgements such as empathy may have evolved considerably earlier in history than previously thought and could be widespread in the animal kingdom.<p>So because whales are older than humans in evolutionary terms, this suggests an earlier evolution of empathy? I think the fundamental mistake is thinking that the whales did not evolve spindle neurons independently, but the whole line of thinking is somewhat muddled.
Tichy将近 16 年前
Isn't that just a matter of how one defines "morality"? I think morals are just rules that are being followed without understanding the reasons why. Even in human societies it is the same - we think we are all human and moral, but really the moral rules only serve to make us establish a specific organization of society (the moral rules are induced by society). In that way, why not consider the behavior of wolves or whatever "moral"? They are evidently following some rules.<p>Societies are subject to evolution - fair behavior among it's members might give one society an advantage over another society, so the fairness rule sticks and becomes inbuilt.<p>Not sure what is supposed to be new about this research then.