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Logo, Bullshit & Co., Inc.

212 点作者 pascal07超过 11 年前

48 条评论

Pxtl超过 11 年前
Personally, I think you&#x27;re missing the forest for the trees. I think the unprofessionalism, the BS, the Mayer-hands-on thing... that <i>is</i> part of Yahoo&#x27;s new branding strategy.<p>It&#x27;s all about making Yahoo feel more personal. More like your friend. Mayer is trying to personally invite you out for coffee to and talk about the fun she had bashing out their logo.<p>I&#x27;m sure there are refinements that are happening behind-the-scenes after Mayer&#x27;s &quot;weekend&quot;. Hopefully resized forms of the logo will still get some TLC - the public doesn&#x27;t generally notice when those things happen.<p>Remember the demographic that Yahoo survived upon - women. Non-geeky grown-up middle-class women. That&#x27;s why the new logo reminds you of a department store like Macy&#x27;s, or the makeup counter at Shoppers Drug Mart. That&#x27;s who Mayer is targeting with this ad, even this blog. It&#x27;s a huge number of people that most of the technorati ignore - Facebook captured that market practically <i>by accident</i>, and Pinterest is exploding because somebody finally thought to actually aim in that direction <i>on purpose</i>. And what&#x27;s pinterest about? Craftsmanship. Craftswomanship. Getting your hands dirty on a fun little artistic project.<p>Like making a logo.<p>Latter-day Yahoo has always found strength in ignoring the geek elite. They lost the geek elite a long time ago. This includes you, design geeks.
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toddmorey超过 11 年前
I&#x27;ve been around adverting for a long time. I&#x27;ve been in agencies, I&#x27;ve freelanced, I&#x27;ve been the client. I&#x27;ve worked with individuals that charge $70&#x2F;hr and teams that charge $20,000 per day.<p>The author is completely right on one point: &quot;...the saying in design: &#x27;if it looks right, it is right.&#x27;”<p>Here&#x27;s the dirty secret: All logos are designed in a momentary collision of experience and accident. All logos are, in a sense, designed in a weekend. That doesn&#x27;t mean it isn&#x27;t done thoughtfully. But that huge research spend? It sometimes guides the design a little, but it&#x27;s mostly there to reverse-justify the final result (and of course expense) with the client.<p>He&#x27;s also asking us to assume the only thought Yahoo ever put into their logo and apparently, their brand, was that one 36-hour period. And the implication of course is that a large spend with an agency would result in a design that&#x27;s both more calculated and less contrived.<p>As the author says, bullshit.
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smacktoward超过 11 年前
I&#x27;m of two minds on this piece.<p>On the one hand, the author is absolutely right that a good professional designer can bring things to the process that enthusiastic amateurs cannot. A really good logo doesn&#x27;t just look cool, it communicates something about the nature and spirit of the company visually. It lays down a marker: &quot;this is who we are.&quot; A designer who knows the grammar of visual communication will have a better chance of delivering that than will someone who doesn&#x27;t.<p>On the other hand, the author sadly doesn&#x27;t do a great job of arguing the above point. Rather than, say, taking some great logos and pulling them apart for us to show how they do what they do, we just hear a lot of complaints about how the way Yahoo did theirs was &quot;unprofessional.&quot; It makes it sound like the main complaint is that Yahoo had the gall to cut designers out of the process rather than that <i>they chose a path that was more likely to result in a crappy logo</i>, which strikes me as a more powerful (and accurate) complaint.<p>In other words, outside the community of professional designers, nobody cares if Marissa Mayer hurt some designers&#x27; feelings. What they care about is how Marissa Mayer is stewarding the Yahoo brand. If you want to convince them that your way is right and her way is wrong, don&#x27;t show them how her way threatens <i>your</i> business; show them how her way threatens <i>her</i> business.
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mbesto超过 11 年前
Ha, I just wrote something very similiar about this: <a href="http://www.techdisruptive.com/2013/09/04/logo-doesnt-matter/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.techdisruptive.com&#x2F;2013&#x2F;09&#x2F;04&#x2F;logo-doesnt-matter&#x2F;</a><p><i>No, it’s not getting attention. It’s gaining trust. Ironically, for that you need a reflective, clear, and consistent brand identity. A different logo powered by bullshit doesn’t convey identity and trustworthiness. It conveys desperation.</i><p>While the overall sentiment of the article is sound, I slightly disagree with this. First, this whole story of &quot;creating the logo in a weekend&quot; with an &quot;intern who did some motion graphics to convey it&#x27;s uniformity&quot; is pure and simple, a publicity stunt, and a good one at that.[1] Personally I don&#x27;t think there is an intern named Max who did that (most likely an agency), but this subtly conveys the perception of something that Yahoo is missing - innovation by small teams. The reality is that Yahoo <i>does</i> have a brand problem (just as MS does in the consumer-mobile space), so they have two tactics they need to implement in order to properly manage the brand:<p>1. Change the perception of the brand (changing the logo to match the new found brand perception is a good way to do that)<p>2. Create buzz around the fact that the perception has now changed.<p>Marissa&#x27;s plan for the logo did just that. I think it&#x27;s a good strategy and something Stringer Bell would have been taught in his business class.[2]<p>[1]-<a href="http://marissamayr.tumblr.com/post/60336044815/geeking-out-on-the-logo" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;marissamayr.tumblr.com&#x2F;post&#x2F;60336044815&#x2F;geeking-out-o...</a><p>[2]-<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbbZc2pab9k" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=KbbZc2pab9k</a>
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mattzito超过 11 年前
It seems odd that the writer first bashes MM for just getting in a room with some designers over a weekend, criticizing the concept of doing something so important in such a slapdash fashion, and then bashes her for polling the company about what they&#x27;d like to see in the logo, because it&#x27;s &quot;Design by polling&quot;. But - doesn&#x27;t that show they did a lot of work upfront, that it wasn&#x27;t <i>just</i> a slapdash effort?<p>The whole article reads like a bitter rant from the company that didn&#x27;t get hired to do the work, instead of a thoughtful discussion of the logo itself (I&#x27;m not saying that iA was in the running to do the work, just that the tone is oddly hostile).
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SimianLogic2超过 11 年前
How I perceived this article: I&#x27;m a thoughtful designer and pissed off that an &quot;amateur&quot; CEO is dipping her toes in my sandbox. Also, if I can bill a client for months of logo design and they see a Fortune 500 CEO doing it themselves they may question if I&#x27;m worth it.<p>(I know nothing about the author, so this is just my perception.)<p>Yes, there&#x27;s some validity to calling out the bullshit in Mayer&#x27;s fluffy post. But equally mixed in are just as many nonsense bits...
yesimahuman超过 11 年前
Not to discount the technical analysis, but it still begs the question of whether any of those points matter for non-designers, or for the business. Just because they didn&#x27;t go through an agency doesn&#x27;t mean the logo won&#x27;t be successful and the attention won&#x27;t help the business.<p>I hate to bring up Google, but they&#x27;ve done pretty well despite having a history of logos no self-respecting agency would ever produce.
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gamache超过 11 年前
There are some CEOs who think they can do anything, and design logotype over the weekend.<p>There are other CEOs who think they can do anything, and start their own space program (with an electric car company on the side).
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ChuckMcM超过 11 年前
Wow, that was a great read. So many great collisions of emotions and ideas.<p>After reading it I understood that the author was deeply offended by the characterization that the Yahoo! logo could be redesigned in a weekend. I get that, they work at a high end logo design studio, it&#x27;s like telling a Ferrari mechanic you spent the weekend with some tools from Pep boys and tuned your Ferrari to give it an additional 15% BHP. The dissonance of knowing, as a professional in the space, what it takes to re-design a logo, and Marissa&#x27;s characterization of the same, really irked this guy. That left me wondering how much of that irritation was professional pride.<p>The meta point the author is trying to make, which is that brand and logo are intertwined but the dependency relationship is backwards in Marissa&#x27;s post, reminded me of the clothes argument. That is the argument about the phrase &quot;The clothes make the man.&quot;<p>The two sides of that argument are that your a better person if you dress well, and if you dress well you are a better person. Which follows which? Can that even be resolved? I had this discussion with my teenage daughter when she wanted to dress like a pop star, who dressed like a slut. We had the whole talk about how clothes are a sort of &#x27;marketing&#x27; for the person you are, and people will set their interactions with you to how you dress first, and the way they know you second. So if their first setting is &#x27;slut&#x27; then you may get so pissed off at them that they never get to see the real you, and a friendship opportunity is missed.<p>So our author has extrapolated that it is how you are as a company, that emerges in your logo, not your logo defines how you are as a company. And I tend to agree with that, but I also know that companies evolve based on how they see themselves. So the argument that Marissa is trying to create a <i>perception</i> which then manifests as reality is certainly plausible. I know when Yahoo! called me a while back (in the Carol Bartz days) and said they were looking for engineering leadership for the Web&#x27;s #1 media company I thought &quot;Hmm, this is a company that is not in touch with what they are.&quot; but it was what they were trying to be.<p>So my summary of the article is that the author&#x27;s pride was wounded by Marissa making it sound like Logo design was trivial, and attacked both her understanding of logos and the whole branding process in response. Along the way he gave us a couple of interesting things to think about.
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Terretta超过 11 年前
&gt; <i>Next she should try the same with Yahoo’s server architecture. Ask everyone about the best server configuration and then put together a brief for the system administrators.</i><p>Well, yeah, actually. Given a server architecture problem and a company still somewhat silo&#x27;d with devops scattered on various teams, asking everyone to weigh in on the architecture <i>would</i> be likely to improve the plan over a single person or even single team coming up with it. Think of the Jainist tale of the blind men and the elephant to understand why.<p>People unlikely to be able to contribute won&#x27;t have a strong opinion, while people able to contribute will, from their viewpoint. Strong opinions here represent gaps in what&#x27;s being done versus what may be needed. And while you may still get a bell curve type of response, you&#x27;re looking for business case viewpoints that might not otherwise have been considered and tech ideas from the tails that may give you a competitive edge.<p>I think the author&#x27;s sarcasm here falls especially flat.<p>When it comes to a logo, even more so. Logos are about appealing to people, trying to convey something that people connect with. Employees like to feel proud of where they work. Their identity gets wrapped up in the company identity. Asking the whole team what they feel about identity is a great data point.<p>And more cynically, now all these employees feel as though their suggestions were listened to. Come to Yahoo, where your ideas matter. What a great place to work!<p>I&#x27;m disappointed in iA for suggesting employees shouldn&#x27;t have a voice in how they see and relate to their own brand symbols.
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luscious超过 11 年前
Says the guy with a &#x27;strategic design&#x27; firm... Bullshit player lobbing bullshit claims at bullshit.<p>Maybe he&#x27;s A&#x2F;B-ing some secondary bullshit article to see what can get better rank on HN. What&#x27;s the best link bait for placating boredom and wasting attention on derivative industries suckling at the teat.
solistice超过 11 年前
Did anyone actually notice the logo changed?<p>I didn&#x27;t, and frankly, it seems like such a little change, I doubt many even noticed.<p>Changing your logo to change your brand identity is the business equivalent of buying new running shoes to start shaping up. It doesn&#x27;t quite work, does it?<p>So I&#x27;m glad they didn&#x27;t spend thousands and ten thousands of dollars on a new logo, because if the logo change is just ego stroking for the CEO, there isn&#x27;t much use of spending months and awe-inspiring sums on it (like that matters).
moron4hire超过 11 年前
Whenever I hear someone say &quot;not being professional&quot;, I replace &quot;being professional&quot; with &quot;conforming to my overly narrow world view.&quot; While professionalism is an important concept, it has never been the case that I have seen it referenced properly. Instead, it&#x27;s usually just some SJ who can&#x27;t sleep at night unless everyone fits into a little box.
kens超过 11 年前
Five years from now, the logo will be the perfect hook for articles about Marissa Mayer and Yahoo. If Yahoo does well, the logo incident will show her brilliance and how her hands-on work saved the company. If Yahoo does poorly, the logo will be an emblem of how her micromanagement and distraction from the core business ruined the company.<p>What I&#x27;m trying to say is that the stories told in retrospect always make what happens seem obvious, but looking forward, it&#x27;s impossible to know.
ctdonath超过 11 年前
I&#x27;m wondering if anyone shared my experience on this:<p>I&#x27;d seen a few posts referencing a change in the Yahoo logo. Having not been to the site for a long time (year or more?) I wasn&#x27;t inclined to see. Then comes this article, which I get sucked into (proper &amp; creative use of obscenity <i>can</i> work), and read the whole diatribe...<i>without knowing what the new logo is</i>. Worked up about the change, having now learned its details without knowing the result, I take a look.<p>Yahoo.com. New logo...meh. It screams &quot;corporate&quot; without the big-budget expensive-talent origin. It speaks of whimsy and cross-discipline inventiveness...beaten into submission by an unhappy &quot;you did my job and now I have to clean up the mess&quot; department.<p>The problem isn&#x27;t that they didn&#x27;t pay a large sum for its development, it&#x27;s that there are people who are very good at such things (be it highly paid or tangential hobby) and none of them were on the weekend team. I&#x27;m reminded of the story of Steve Jobs calling a top guy at Google late one weekend to complain that their shade of yellow was <i>wrong</i> - and he was right.
izolate超过 11 年前
If Yahoo! really wanted to signal their change towards modernity and freshness, they were already sitting on their perfect logo: <a href="http://i.imgur.com/VpAwbwS.png" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;VpAwbwS.png</a>
bruceboughton超过 11 年前
&gt;&gt; And what is more efficient than working directly with the CEO on the brand identity? A dream setup. Also, it’s cheap. A weekend for a logo, instead of paying a branding agency millions and waiting months for something that can be done in a couple of days? That’s smart business!<p>&gt;&gt; Is it?<p>Yes. People will bitch about your logo whether you paid $100mn for it or hacked it over the weekend. Logos, like names, don&#x27;t actually matter much. It is the change that is important, not the design.
felix超过 11 年前
I&#x27;d say the most annoying part (of so many annoying parts) was when he says:<p>&quot;The hard part is defining what your brand is and what it aims to become.&quot;<p>And then somehow supports that with the opposite:<p>&quot;Is Yahoo “whimsical, yet sophisticated. Modern and fresh […] human, personal […] proud”? Currently, Yahoo is not associated with being whimsical or sophisticated, rather it is mostly boring and dull. It doesn’t portray modernity or freshness, it feels obsolete and dated.&quot;<p>Apparently had he been hired, he&#x27;d have designed a logo to what he believes are Yahoo&#x27;s current brand - dullness and obsolescence instead of what he suggested at the outset which is what you want your brand to be.
atacrawl超过 11 年前
The fact of the matter is that none of us knows exactly happened that weekend, including whether it was really a weekend at all. But I think what offends so many people (myself, to a certain extent, included) is that this whole episode, as it has played out publicly, represents a certain obnoxiousness that so many of us have experienced -- executives that are in over their head inserting themselves into processes they have no business being part of, leading to results that are at best mediocre. Between Mayer&#x27;s self-aggrandizing &quot;&#x27;we&#x27; did it&quot; post and the amateur hour &quot;30 logos in 30 days&quot; stunt, the situation resembles a farce. Marissa Mayer was supposed to be Yahoo&#x27;s brilliant savior, so why is she playing the role of a stereotypical clueless CEO?<p>These Onion stories in tandem seem appropriate here.<p><a href="http://www.theonion.com/articles/executive-creative-too,31024/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theonion.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;executive-creative-too,3102...</a><p><a href="http://www.theonion.com/video/ceo-has-special-knack-for-recognizing-great-ideas,33677/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theonion.com&#x2F;video&#x2F;ceo-has-special-knack-for-reco...</a><p>(minor edits)
hkuo超过 11 年前
The author fails to make an important distinction about the people that created the logo.<p>It&#x27;s one thing to say that a design agency came in and designed a logo in a weekend. It&#x27;s another thing to say an internal design team bared down to create a logo in a &quot;weekend&quot; (in quotes, because Marissa may simply be using the term to mean done in a short timespan).<p>I&#x27;ve worked on both the agency and client side, and the huge difference is that an agency comes in and has to learn very quickly about the client&#x27;s business (more often than not getting it wrong the first time around) while the people working at the company live and breathe the company culture day in and out. At an agency, you&#x27;re often jumping between a few clients, but unless you&#x27;ve been the agency of record for a number of years, it is simply not possible for you to have the depth of understanding that an internal marketing team will have. What an agency CAN bring is some fresh outsider thinking not colored by the company&#x27;s history, but there&#x27;s no reason the right people within the company can do so as well.
paulsutter超过 11 年前
Yahoo really needs an internal culture of agility, listening to customers, and working weekends. She wants employees reminded of that every time they look at the logo, even if it means having a logo that&#x27;s 10% less ideal.
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AliEzer超过 11 年前
I totally disagree. And yes, it is just a logo. Google logo is still looking like it was made by a 10 years old. Sounds like the author is trying to justify his daily rate. Come on. And when big companies pay millions for a logo, it&#x27;s not just for the logo itself, it&#x27;s for all the identity of the company. Yahoo! changed its logo but the majority of the people won&#x27;t even notice.
Prefinem超过 11 年前
Honestly, it seems to me that the author is upset when a 10 billion dollar company just gave a big F you to the design community, and this is a little hissy fit.<p>Look at all the news it generated, look at all the people talking about it. Change, The big old giant company is changing.<p>And seriously, having worked with a few designers, they are the biggest little bitch when they feel insulted because you didn&#x27;t come to them for &quot;fashion&quot; sense on design.<p>Reading from a developer&#x27;s viewpoint, this article is about an &quot;artist&quot; whining because a 10 billion dollar company said&#x2F;showed that you can do their &quot;month&quot; long work in a weekend. The author&#x27;s &quot;this is unprofessional&quot; is an attack that yahoo isn&#x27;t playing by his rules.
ethagknight超过 11 年前
Logo, Bullshit &amp; Co is quite a self-important read. Sure, Mayer&#x27;s approached is unconventional for a large corporation, and it is more in line with a bootstrapping startup. Yahoo is in financial dire straights, so it is totally reasonable for Mayer to try an unconventional approach, save serious marketing dollars, and go her own way. We don&#x27;t have to love the result, but at the end of the day, Mayer gave the brand a new face, and she didn&#x27;t pay much for it.
sfjailbird超过 11 年前
I agree with this assessment - apparently taking this task so lightly (especially given the poor outcome) is a baffling and shocking misstep, so bad that I have to think hard about if there is some hidden angle I&#x27;m not seeing, some genius act of extremely subtle performance marketing. It would seem extreme to judge a CEO by something relatively trivial and unimportant such as this, but honestly the way this project was handled makes me very bearish on Yahoo under Mayer.
uptown超过 11 年前
Yahoo!&#x27;s challenge isn&#x27;t their logo. Yahoo!&#x27;s challenge is ensuring their brand becomes associated with whatever they do best.<p>When I think of Google I think of search, ads, and Android, and GMail. When I think of Microsoft I think of Windows, Office and XBOX. When I think of Apple I think of the iPhone, and the iPad. When I think of Facebook I think of photos and privacy (lack thereof).<p>When I think of Yahoo there&#x27;s no defining correlation to anything. I realize many people frequent their services - but personally Yahoo! doesn&#x27;t stand out as &quot;best&quot; for anything, and I don&#x27;t even know what direction they intend to pursue to change that perception.
netrus超过 11 年前
I do not agree. The reason logos usually are expensive and take months: Because what else? If I have a multi-million Dollar marketing budget, sure the logo will take a good chunk of that, not only, say one permille (still enough to pay 5 designers for a week). If I want to change the perception of my company, I will not rush.<p>Does this mean the logo will perform better than one a design student made over the weekend? No.<p>Do many months of work prevent a failure? No.<p>In the end, Yahoo wants profit through revenue through site usage through loyal users. Does letter spacing have an influence on this? I doubt it.
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ErikAugust超过 11 年前
Read &quot;I&#x27;m Feeling Lucky: Confessions of Google Employee...&quot;. I&#x27;m surprised no one has referenced the book.<p>Fiddling with logos was (and still is) considered a bit sacreligious when it comes to branding but in the case of Google in the early 2000s, it was a big hit - what is now Google Doodles. Those were attributed partially to Marissa Mayer implementing the idea &quot;over the weekend with the help of a designer&quot;.
mathattack超过 11 年前
When I read purple prose about logos, I keep thinking, &quot;Let&#x27;s just measure this to see if what they&#x27;re saying is right.&quot; In general the soft-speak of brands, design and logo can move into meaninglessness. I know it&#x27;s important. Design is why Apple succeeds. But it also should be something that can be explained in plain (and perhaps measurable) English.
at-fates-hands超过 11 年前
The ironic thing is their old logo is still in a ton of places, like in their Fantasy Football image on their main login page:<p><a href="https://login.yahoo.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;login.yahoo.com</a><p>You can also Google it and the image on the right hand side is still the old logo.<p>As much as she wanted to change it, they sure didn&#x27;t do a good job of scrubbing their properties of the old logo.
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lotsofcows超过 11 年前
I like this sentence: &quot;Your brand architecture is your information architecture.&quot; In italics no less.<p>Could someone tell me what it means?
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evolve2k超过 11 年前
For me spending weeks and months of valuable time achieving a utopian logo would be the greater waste. I personally am very supportive of this let&#x27;s get everyone we need to in the room and lets get it done approach. It bodes well for how MM might go about solving larger issues facing the company.
dnyanesh超过 11 年前
If Marissa Mayer hadn&#x27;t mentioned about the time taken to design the logo, this post wouldn&#x27;t exist.
jrs235超过 11 年前
I think &quot;it&#x27;s&quot; working.<p>&quot;Negative&quot; publicity is better than no publicity.<p>Look at us! We&#x27;re talking about Yahoo! now.<p>EDIT: My point being: perhaps it&#x27;s not about their logo or the importance of a logo and many of you aren&#x27;t seeing the bigger picture&#x2F;goal&#x2F;objective...
jpswade超过 11 年前
What the writer fails to notice is that the reason there is a lack of technicalities surrounding the logo is that it&#x27;s clearly an emotional decision, not a logical one.
5teev超过 11 年前
Historical note about the logo illustration at the top of the essay (which predates the well-known red logo): it was internally referred to as &quot;Uncle Stinky&quot;.
antidaily超过 11 年前
Did eBay&#x27;s new logo get this criticized? Because it&#x27;s infinitely worse. Then again, the CEO probably didnt work on i, which seems to be the major gripe.
devanti超过 11 年前
it&#x27;s simple. yahoo&#x27;s new logo is just bad. it&#x27;s exactly what too much thought and group think does.<p>the logo isn&#x27;t even aligned properly on their homepage
VeejayRampay超过 11 年前
I think the logo looks awful. It looked awful in the first place anyway but it&#x27;s well recognized and branded so I guess it doesn&#x27;t matter much.
Kurinys超过 11 年前
I like the fact that you argue the point that yahoo&#x27;s brand is or is not: (insert completely meaningless addwords)
pejer超过 11 年前
I bet this is just a hoax and when the rage is at its peak, the real logo will be revealed.<p>TADA!<p>We ARE a whimsical company, yay for fooling all of you!
secstate超过 11 年前
There&#x27;s gotta be some law of marketing at work here ... yahoo is the pepsi to google&#x27;s coke ;-)
progx超过 11 年前
What is better?<p>Write about an own Logo or write a monstrous post about someone, who write about her own Logo ;-)
GBiT超过 11 年前
Twitter for its first logo paid 15$
dedsm超过 11 年前
so, the whole logo is bad because Yahoo didn&#x27;t pay millions of dollars on it?
pagekicker超过 11 年前
Great post and spot-on.
sidcool超过 11 年前
Wow, someone got pissed!
coldpie超过 11 年前
Hang on, hang on.<p>People still visit Yahoo?
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