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ODesk vs Elance vs Freelancer vs Guru

176 点作者 weavorateam超过 11 年前

28 条评论

RafiqM超过 11 年前
This is my experience of oDesk, from someone who has spent 6 figures with them.<p>A few years ago I contracted a developer from the largest agency on oDesk at the time, based in India.<p>This developer had a masters degree, tons of experience, and had a daily rate significantly higher than the average. Things worked out so well that I increased the team to 7 people total from this same company.<p>After about 8 months, the quality of work fell dramatically.<p>I ended up cancelling the contracts a few months after that, and found out something shocking from the ex project manager:<p>The developers I had hired had been switched out for junior level devs. Some of the developers I hired didn&#x27;t even work for that company anymore. I had none of my original hires, and didn&#x27;t know it.<p>They had been communicating with me under the previous names and email addresses. I had wondered why they so often &quot;forgot&quot; things that I had told them 6 months ago.<p>I was told this was a common practice in large agencies.<p>The problem: Inadequate accountability, even with screenshots or videos.<p>Is this problem specific to oDesk? No, not at all. But it&#x27;s turned me off &quot;per-hour&quot; contracts altogether, and now I only outsource very small, highly scoped, pay-on-delivery projects.
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auctiontheory超过 11 年前
Speaking as an employer:<p>All of these sites have good workers, and all of them have workers who will turn in shoddy work, hoping you won&#x27;t notice. I&#x27;ve hired for more than a dozen projects and in no case did the contractor do the job right the first time - because they didn&#x27;t care enough, not because they were incompetent. I&#x27;ve hired workers in the US, in India, in the UK, and elsewhere. Same sorts of issues crop up. (I was eventually very pleased with the results - it just wasn&#x27;t as smooth as presented by Tim Ferriss or whoever.)<p>Poor communication and missed deadlines are the rule. Also watch out for bait and switch: for graphics, for instance, the individual who produces a firm&#x27;s portfolio may not be the same one who will work on your project.<p>Identifying talent, and managing remote workers, is a skill that can only be developed with time and practice. It&#x27;s much more than a question of picking the right marketplace. The reviews are not trustworthy. If possible, try to get recommendations for specific workers from people you personally know. Because the great workers are out there, among the masses.
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leknarf超过 11 年前
I thought this was a great comparison of the popular talent marketplaces, but it skipped over the most important trait: the typical hourly or project rate.<p>All of the services have good workers, but they&#x27;ve also all been participating in a race to the bottom. As a developer, it&#x27;s hard to ask for more than $100&#x2F;hr on a site where you&#x27;re listed alongside those asking for $10&#x2F;hr. Even if you are 10 times more productive, it&#x27;s simply hard to explain why or how that&#x27;s possible in a marketplace setting.<p>After spending some time working as a consultant, I just launched a new marketplace for high-end contract work: <a href="http://getlambda.com/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;getlambda.com&#x2F;</a>. We have a clear minimum ($100&#x2F;hr) and personally interview everyone looking to participate (both clients and consultants).
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mudil超过 11 年前
I used both Odesk and Freelancer to hire developers, and I urge everyone to look at my previous submission (<a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5177951" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=5177951</a>) about deplorable protections at Freelancer.com.<p>In summary, my $2500 project was closed by the developer at his will, with no money returned and no way to even leave a feedback! Multiple attempts asking the company to allow me to even leave a feedback came to nothing.<p>Freelancer is not to be trusted.
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sfjailbird超过 11 年前
I personally recommend everyone to not use Freelancer.com. I learned in this thread that they also bought vWorker, and I am not surprised to read that it has turned for the worse after being acquired.<p>In short, they steal from both the freelancers and the outsourcers - stories aplenty about this [1]. I only know about these stories because I started looking into them after being bamboozled myself, luckily for only a small amount, which would have been larger had I not managed to cancel the additional payments Freelancer.com had booked against my credit card without permission. This was my experience as an outsourcer, apparently the freelancers have it far worse.<p>Elance on the other hand has seen more than $20k of my business and will continue to in the foreseeable future. Have not had experience with the other services (there&#x27;s a strong lock-in effect in this market because your job history itself becomes a valuable thing).<p>[1] <a href="http://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/www.freelancer.com" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sitejabber.com&#x2F;reviews&#x2F;www.freelancer.com</a>
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SlavD超过 11 年前
Freelancer.com is a massive SCAM - IMHO<p>1. you can only withdraw if you have more than $x in funds - I have had $7 left on the site and can&#x27;t get it back!<p>2. their conflict resolution is non-existent or biased - a person clearly didn&#x27;t deliver what I asked for in my job and they simply refused to help me deal with it<p>3. after I left honest but negative feedback the freelance worker contacted me and tried to bully me into changing it. after I refused he proposed that I withdraw my feedback and he will refund me for the job<p>4. after I have withdrawn my feedback and he didn&#x27;t refund me - I tried to bring it back - but hey what do you know - freelancer.com doesn&#x27;t allow you to bring back my original feedback unless both parties agree!<p>5. I contacted their support to try to resolve it - again no help there<p>fortunately for me the job was only small $50 project, but I learned my lesson and will NEVER use this website again!<p>after that I used both Elance and oDesk and I think both are good and professional
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re1ser超过 11 年前
Bad side is that there are alot of scams and poor programmers, looking to snipe the job and squeeze money from employer in any way possible. From my personal opinion, atleast 80% of bidders do this (I&#x27;m working over Freelancer).<p>Good side is that with little hassle, employers can find really great freelancers that know to do their job. Personally, as a programmer from 3rd world country, these sites provide alternative, and a great way of earning money. Here where I live, starting salaries for programmers are around 500$, and peak at 1800$, if you get job in Microsoft, both 8-10h&#x2F;day fulltime jobs. The IT market here is practically non-existant, except few high profile companies that offer decent working conditions. With these sites, I have freedom to apply my working conditions, rules and price.
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throwmeaway2525超过 11 年前
Is there any service that doesn&#x27;t require installing spyware on your system?<p>AFAIK they all force developers to install monitoring software, and then boast about this on their marketing pages targeting employers.
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gesman超过 11 年前
I used and loved rentacoder back then. The rule is to avoid Indians and Pakistanis as they were usually middlemen between really poor developers. I hired north american or european workers and it worked well and predictable.
mattbarrie超过 11 年前
Hi there. I&#x27;m the Chief Executive of Freelancer.com. This article is two years old but I&#x27;m happy to answer any questions any of you might have.
uladzislau超过 11 年前
I tried all the sites except Guru as a hiring manager. From my experience, Odesk is the best option so far in terms of value - if you prefer to pay per hour.<p>Freelancer is the cheapest per project option but full of low quality spammer applicants. You can find a good quality provider on Elance but be prepared to pay premium for that.
maerF0x0超过 11 年前
&lt;rant&gt; Something being missed by this discussion (and many offshoring discussions) is that many consulting firms design maintenance costs into their business model. They undercut everyone with low prices for a poorly engineered product, knowing they can churn additional hours&#x2F;sales in &quot;upgrades&quot;, &quot;maintenance&quot; etc.<p>When you pay me $60 an hour (or more) to design you a component of your system, it will be SOLID OO designs, quite reusable, DRY, tested (unit tested) and better in many other ways. Where as most of the code I&#x27;ve seen come from bad agencies basically do &quot;class Main { function doItAll() { &#x2F;* Here is the entire program *&#x2F; } };&quot;<p>Which is why it will cost more in the long run. If you want something added or made similar, they&#x27;ll copy and paste instead of inheriting or using traits or other language constructs to keep it DRY. If you want to know if the system has regression, they&#x27;ll shrug, because they either do not test, or they just write the tests to pass the way the code currently works, not testing the component in general. If you&#x27;re planning on closing business in 12 months, then maybe its not worth it to invest in a scalable, changeable infrastructure. If you&#x27;re planning on being in business for a long time, then invest the capital to develop your business :D .<p>ok &lt;&#x2F;rant&gt;
latortuga超过 11 年前
Longtime oDesker here, I&#x27;ve made mid 5 figures total. I recently received a notification from oDesk that I&#x27;m part of the top 5% of &quot;successful freelancers&quot; on oDesk which I interpreted to mean top 5% of earners. It honestly astounded me because my account has been basically inactive for the last 8 months and I&#x27;ve only worked on oDesk projects since a few months after I quit my job, roughly late 2011.<p>I started working oDesk mostly to stave off having to dip too deeply into savings. In fact, I read a lot of helpful information on HN related to getting your foot in the door for freelancing online and it ended up working very well for me. If you&#x27;re looking to get an established profile, the short version is:<p>1. Build things (i.e. small projects, clones, browse project listings for things that would take a few hours and just implement them)<p>2. Tell people (learn to write proposals well, show the employers that you know your stuff and can produce)<p>Over time I slowly raised my rate and, surprise surprise, everyone who every wrote anything about raising your rate is right! The more the client is paying, the better they are. I ended up firing the client with the lowest rate because he was so bad and have done repeat work for my highest paying client.<p>As far as the tracking software, it has been buggy at times (I&#x27;m on Linux, I imagine they spend more time on other platforms) but I don&#x27;t really see the big deal about having it take a screenshot. If the client is micromanaging to the point where he&#x27;s having you remove 10 minutes because facebook showed up in your screenshot, it&#x27;s not worth the time. I do notice that it tends to take screenshots when switching apps. On oDesk, I get hired hourly, I provide work hourly.<p>Just like any in-person project, online projects require you to have good communication skills - letting the client know when you&#x27;re working, what you&#x27;ll be doing, when you expect things to be done, technical tradeoffs, etc. None of this is unique to remote projects.<p>Additionally, just like the real world, there are endless people posting jobs expecting the moon in exchange for peanuts. I used to regularly receive &quot;invitations to interview&quot; from people who posted projects and almost always they were someone with an idea, looking for a coder, willing to pay $1k to get their facebook clone off the ground. While my girlfriend was impressed that my skills were in such high demand, it&#x27;s can be a bit of a game of roulette trying to find serious projects and employers willing to invest real money. In my experience, setting a high hourly rate on your profile mitigates this situation quite a bit.<p>I also experimented with vworker and elance back in 2011, but neither of them ended up being a good fit. It turns out that when you&#x27;re building your profile on a freelancing site, sticking to one site is pretty useful because you get feedback and projects to post about at the same time and alongside each other. Glowing feedback next to a completed project with 5 figures invested does good things for your profile.<p>If you&#x27;re looking to get started with oDesk or have any other questions about how it works, I&#x27;m always free for a chat. Email is in my profile.
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khalidmbajwa超过 11 年前
I am a long time contractor on oDesk and owe a great deal to this site.I wanted to talk a little about the hate the hourly model with screenshots is getting. Here&#x27;s the primary reason the video thing won&#x27;t work. Most of the providers are from third world countries where internet while decent is rarely good enough to support uploads in such massive volume. I have a 4 Mbps DSL connection and while i get great downstream, the upstream maxes out at 20 KB&#x2F;s. So yeah, that&#x27;s out of the window. However, screenshots work extremely effectively. I have close to 5000 hours logged on oDesk and barring a one off incident where i forgot to shut the logging software down and ended up logging extra hours( I refunded the client) i have never had a buyer dispute my hours. Here&#x27;s the thing, as an employer you have to be smart about it. When you post a job, only interview candidates with a good oDesk history,look at their past jobs, the buyer&#x27;s feedback, their portfolio etc. Then talk to them over Skype, ask for code samples etc. If you reach out for the bottom of the pool ofcourse you will get burned, but a contractor with a good history (who might be charging higher)will never ever endanger his feedback history in such a cut throat marketplace where even a single 4.99 out of 5 can knock you off the first page of search results and costing you big time, all for a few extra bucks. This alone will weed out 99% of the dishonest providers. But you can still go and initially, for a week or so, monitor the contractor&#x27;s work logs closely, you will know instantly if they are padding their hours since oDesk uploads around 5 to 6 screenshots per hour, along with mouse and keyboard activity reports. Just monitor them closely initially and then semi regularly afterwards and you will know what type of contractor you are dealing with. Once you have built trust and seen the contractor&#x27;s work you can ease up. Finally,set tight milestones and demand regular daily updates and you will know what&#x27;s going on. So yeah, don&#x27; be lazy, be a little more vigilant and you can find some really good contractors at great prices .All the top contractors i know only work hourly and IMHO Its a great model for the employer and for the contractor, a simple win win.
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helen842000超过 11 年前
On that article they suggest it costs $10 to post a job on elance, however I&#x27;ve never paid to post a job!
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dubcanada超过 11 年前
This article is over 2 years old, not only is most of the &quot;chart&quot; out of date, it also cites facts which are no longer true.<p>Why did this get posted?
bravura超过 11 年前
vworker (formerly: rentacoder) was great while it lasted. Honest, talented engineers.<p>When they got bought by freelancer, everything became way more scammy. It also became much more difficult to interview potential hires. Lame.
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xerophtye超过 11 年前
Ok the article seems to pretty outdated. 2011!! it woudln&#x27;t have mattered if the facts were still valid but a lot of things changed, including policies and features of these sites. Not to mention vlancer got taken over by freelancer.com<p>So i&#x27;d advice people to keep this fact in mind when going through this, and not use this as the final word on the matter when comparing.
mamcx超过 11 年前
I have accounts on odesk&#x2F;freelancer and think that is necessary to have a pre-screening of jobs descriptions.<p>For example, somebody ask for build a &quot;search engine&quot; and have a big budget... but still not clarify enough what mean to him &quot;search engine&quot;.<p>So the only option is apply to the job, and wait for the customer to talk about it.<p>Then you wait days, weeks and nothing is answered back. Probably the user get scared?<p>I think that give to potential customers somebody to talk about the project first, to properly describe it (understanding not a full spec, but enough to clarify things in a broad sense) will help a lot.<p>Also, I wonder why this kind of sites not use their own developers to give this. So when a new customer wanna submit a project it pay, for example, US 50 for talk about it before submit or something like that..<p>(Like a community-driven-facebook-style-lets-talk-before-submit thing)
loceng超过 11 年前
Re: ODesk - Screenshots count as video? That is completely irrational.My most recent experience was a contractor on there who was padding his hours hugely. Literally a 5 minute job he tried to spread across 5 hours.
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bdcravens超过 11 年前
I&#x27;ve done some work on these in the past, dating back to 2000. They&#x27;ve always been challenging if you&#x27;re not in a market where you can lowball, so I presume most &quot;senior&quot; developers in premium markets avoid these sites.<p>I&#x27;d love to hear thoughts about using these marketplaces to build up experience in languages you&#x27;re not yet using in production.
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yawniek超过 11 年前
i got a diverse set of projects done through elance contractors in the last years. over all a good experience so far.<p>usually i do a general chat through skype with those providing a useful application. since i am a programmer myself, this helps me to quickly figure out someones skill set. Agencies are usually complicated and a lot of information gets lost between workers there. I did a iOS app with an agency, the design, ux and code were horrible. Rebuilt the App with a single contractor from Lisbon for half the price. He quickly understood the application, provided clean code and simple but elegant design. So evaluation of the contractor is something you need to do with care.<p>i prefer elance because it allows you to search for people based on their location easily. a feature which odesk is bad at. But still the main reason to use any such service is the legal frame, payment and escrow.<p>ps. i&#x27;m currently hiring for a golang job
aptwebapps超过 11 年前
Maybe a 2011 in the title? Some of the stuff in the table is out-of-date. For example, oDesk no longer sends 1099s.
guillermovs超过 11 年前
I&#x27;ve tried most of the freelance marketplaces out there and IMHO there&#x27;s a lot more that could be done.<p>That&#x27;s why we&#x27;re developing <a href="http://www.socialance.com" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.socialance.com</a> If you have any suggestions or want to help, let me know: guillermo@socialance.com
yesplorer超过 11 年前
This article is from 2011 and I believe the convention is that the submitter should have indicated that in the title.<p>This is relevant because since that time, freelance.com has acquired vWorker(formerly rentacoder) and hence a lot of things might have changed as well over 2 years period
tocomment超过 11 年前
Is rentacoder still around? I had good experiences there.
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bambax超过 11 年前
freelancer.com doesn&#x27;t work with Ghostery turned on. Not a good sign.
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dharma1超过 11 年前
can anyone recommend any good android&#x2F;iOS devs on these sites?