The Norwegian prison where inmates are treated like people

It looks like the Norwegians have gotten over the fundamental problem that we have in the States (and presumably in other countries): the idea that people should be made to suffer for perceived transgressions even if it costs the rest of society more (and yes, I do mean after accounting for the accompanied reduction of the undesired behavior by making an example of offenders).<p>Apparently we&#x27;re too primitive to get beyond the juvenile practice of cutting off our nose to spite our face, and it informs our drug policy, the way we deal with the homeless, our prison system, our views on social welfare, etc.

&gt; anything up to the 21-year maximum sentence (Norway has no death penalty or life sentence)<p>One thing has to be noted every time: Norway has no life sentence (well it does, for the military) (and it has a 30 years sentence for crimes against humanity as required by the Rome Statute) but it has <i>forvaring</i>, &quot;preventive detention&quot;.<p>It is <i>indeterminate length</i> sentence tacked onto initial 21 years, which translates into the ability to extend the imprisonment by increments of 5 years if the prisoner is still considered a danger to society. The prisoner can petition for parole every year during forvaring, but there is no limit to the possibility of extension, so forvaring effectively allows for life in prison.

I&#x27;ve never been to prison but years ago I went to jail in the US for violent acts and weapon charges and wouldn&#x27;t wish that on anyone. My co-defendant in the trial was charged with greater crimes and did 8 years in prison out of 13. I went to visit the guy about once a month and I can say one thing for certain - he will never be the same. And not in a good way.<p>I know a lot of guys like him. The US prison system is not worried about rehabilitation. It&#x27;s about punishment and removal from society, regardless of how you come out. It&#x27;s a terrible place meant to scare the crap out of you and that&#x27;s basically it. And now it&#x27;s one big industry.

There&#x27;s a movement in some law circles towards &quot;Restorative Justice&quot; which I think is even more forward thinking than Norway&#x27;s prison system. It focuses on the victims interests instead of the governments (imagine this applied to Aaron Swartz).<p>&gt; Restorative justice (also sometimes called reparative justice) is an approach to justice that focuses on the needs of the victims and the offenders, as well as the involved community, instead of satisfying abstract legal principles or punishing the offender.<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restorative_justice" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Restorative_justice</a>

Norway doesn&#x27;t really have a permanent criminal class, and the main aim of the criminal justice system is to keep it that way. Whereas the US (and many others) have an enormous criminal social class, firmly-rooted criminal organizations seemingly in a prepetual state of war with law enforcement, and so on. That stuff isn&#x27;t going away even if you did liberal prison reform. The circumstances are very different, maybe it&#x27;s appropriate that the aims and methods of law enforcement are too?

I&#x27;m sure we have a country like Norway somewhere in the United States. Perhaps New Hampshire? Just like we have a country in these United States to match any small European country whose statistics are brought forward to push some kind of social agenda.

This is a really insightful article into Norway&#x27;s prison system. I wish it had also gathered opinions from the victims of crime. I presume there is broad support among the Norwegian population for the length of sentencing.<p>In the UK, the press often goads the public with stories of &quot;soft&quot; sentencing. The article mentions a young man serving 11 years for murder. That pain will last a lifetime for the family of the murdered person. If I wondered if I could accept a sentence of 11 years as suitable punishment for the murderer? Would I be so bitter and angry that I&#x27;d wish for more? (Yes, I know this is why we have courts to make judgements).

not an easy topic though.<p>some crimes are easier to stomach than others. some sentences are not meant to help the person going to prison, but protecting the population from that very person.<p>the lax practices in western europe have led to numerous cases where prisoners where able to rape&#x2F;kill people while they were on &quot;prison vacations&quot;, in german called &quot;freigang&quot;. very often an expert psychatrist had deemed the prisoner to be stable and reformed.<p>a guy in austria has just killed 3 policemen plus 1 ambulance driver. if he doesn&#x27;t kill himself (standoff is still ongoing) - what exactly is there to reform? 4 people are dead, the lives of their families are forever impacted by this. why should the assailant have any right to return to society? he decided to deny this right to 4 direct victims.<p>should marc dutroux ever go free? breivik? why do they need to be reformed? should the gangrapers in India go free?<p>the victims and their families should come first. you rape, kill, maim? consciously? ok, face the consequences. this reformation BS is ignoring the plight of the victims and their families.

Just crunching some numbers here, and these are rough estimates, presented without comment:<p>- Norway: 4,000 prisoners &#x2F; 5M population (0.08% incarceration)<p>- United Kingdom: 84,000 prisoners &#x2F; 63M pop. (0.13%)<p>- United States: 2,270,000 prisoners &#x2F; 317M pop. (0.72%)<p>The US prison population rises to about 7M when you include everyone &quot;under correctional supervision&quot; (e.g., in probation, on parole, in jail, etc.), increasing to a &gt;2% figure. But I don&#x27;t have apples-to-apples figures for the UK and Norway in this regard.

Prisoners are people. Thus, the question becomes, how do we treat our people?

Well, America still doesn&#x27;t deal with non-inmate populations humanely, so we have quite a ways to go.

This article digs up the age old question: is imprisonment intended to punish or to protect society? Or a little of both?

The thing I love most about this, is that it shows they still hold faith in human kind. They sincerely believe they can help people change, and people are changing.<p>This is a seriously heart warming story.

The statistic mentioned in the article for recidivism was around 16% &quot;the lowest in Europe&quot;<p>That&#x27;s interesting considering the US had the same rate in 2007 and we have treat our criminals completely different. This would lead me to believe treating criminals like people isn&#x27;t the key to successful punishment and eventual rehabilitation.<p>&quot;During 2007, a total of 1,180,469 persons on parole were at-risk of reincarceration. This includes persons under parole supervision on January 1 or those entering parole during the year. Of these parolees, about 16% were returned to incarceration in 2007.&quot;<p>source: <a href="http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&amp;tid=17" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bjs.gov&#x2F;index.cfm?ty=tp&amp;tid=17</a>

And the American inner city streets where people are treated like savages.

This would never work in South Africa for example. The conditions of such a prison are orders of magnitude better than what half the population have at home. Just having food, a bed and a flushing toilet would be a step up. Everyone would be lining up to go to prison :)

Can&#x27;t speak for Norway, but I imagine is as being about as lax as Swedish prisons: here the &quot;prisoners&quot;, if you may call them such, even though they are murderers, assualters and other kinds of violent criminals, have better accommodations and food than the elderly. And school children.<p>(Better as in: more money is spent per prisoner than per child or senior in government care [1]).<p>Also, prisoners are given free health care and dental work, something that &quot;free&quot; Swedes have to pay for. Coincidentally, illegal aliens are also given free dental work (they pay 5$ per appointment).<p>Something is seriously wrong with Sweden when criminals are taken care of better than [law-abiding] citizens.<p>1) <a href="http://www.pitea-tidningen.se/nyheter/varfor-far-fangarna-battre-mat-an-skoleleverna-6052081-default.aspx" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.pitea-tidningen.se&#x2F;nyheter&#x2F;varfor-far-fangarna-ba...</a>

What works for a tiny ethnically homogenous country situated in the far north might just work for ANYONE!<p>Or, not.