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SQRL - Replacement for usernames and passwords

205 点作者 richardjs超过 11 年前

30 条评论

habosa超过 11 年前
This looks like a much less polished version of Clef (<a href="https://getclef.com/" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;getclef.com&#x2F;</a>). Clef is a really awesome app and they&#x27;re already powering this type of integration for a few hundred websites. One of the founders is an HN regular, although I can&#x27;t remember his username (Jesse, reply if you see this).
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dsl超过 11 年前
<a href="http://attrition.org/errata/charlatan/steve_gibson/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;attrition.org&#x2F;errata&#x2F;charlatan&#x2F;steve_gibson&#x2F;</a><p>&gt; Steve Gibson is somewhat of a &quot;fringe&quot; charlatan. In some professional security circles, he is not considered a reputable security professional, rather more of a snake oil salesman peddling third-rate software with bold claims. While many of his claims are a bit outlandish or bold, few, if any, are demonstrably false. However, when asked to speak on security topics, Gibson is getting adept at putting his foot in his mouth. A single amusing quote may be laughable, but a series of them begin to paint a picture of someone who doesn&#x27;t really understand security. Rather, he seems to know enough buzzwords and ideas to be dangerous to his clients.
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peterwwillis超过 11 年前
Here&#x27;s why this is stupid: This is 1-factor authentication, but it&#x27;s actually LESS secure than a username and password.<p>A password is something you know - it&#x27;s in your head, so it can only be stolen if you save it somewhere, or if there&#x27;s malware on your computer sniffing it.<p>The tokens in the phone are saved in the phone, so if you lose the phone, you&#x27;ve just lost your password&#x2F;set of keys. On top of that, malware in the phone can extract the keys.<p>With malware on your phone, your accounts can be pilfered without your knowledge, at any time. Or if your phone is stolen. This is different from 2-factor, where you have to both know a secret AND have access to a device.<p>(If the prospect of malware on your phone doesn&#x27;t phase you, consider that news articles over three years old reported hundreds of thousands of malware installs found by various security companies)
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jimueller超过 11 年前
Seems similar to the discontinued Google Sesame. <a href="http://www.zdnet.com/open-sesame-googles-no-password-log-in-1339329832/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.zdnet.com&#x2F;open-sesame-googles-no-password-log-in-...</a><p>It would be interesting to know why Google didn&#x27;t pursue it. Maybe a 20% project? <a href="https://plus.google.com/101935995649723391317/posts/P94xEz9DjCo" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;plus.google.com&#x2F;101935995649723391317&#x2F;posts&#x2F;P94xEz9D...</a><p>Another similar system <a href="http://corp.galois.com/blog/2011/1/5/quick-authentication-using-mobile-devices-and-qr-codes.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;corp.galois.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;2011&#x2F;1&#x2F;5&#x2F;quick-authentication-us...</a>
juhanima超过 11 年前
Not exactly a new idea. Here is some prior art<p><a href="http://openaccess.uoc.edu/webapps/o2/bitstream/10609/14761/6/dpintorTFM0612memoria.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;openaccess.uoc.edu&#x2F;webapps&#x2F;o2&#x2F;bitstream&#x2F;10609&#x2F;14761&#x2F;6...</a><p><a href="http://www.computer.org/csdl/proceedings/ares/2009/3564/00/3564a578-abs.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.computer.org&#x2F;csdl&#x2F;proceedings&#x2F;ares&#x2F;2009&#x2F;3564&#x2F;00&#x2F;3...</a><p>As far as I know, QR-TAN is being used in Germany for authentication by a number of banks.
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seldo超过 11 年前
How do you log in to a mobile site if you have to use your phone to scan the code?
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Mithaldu超过 11 年前
This is functionally the same thing as <a href="https://github.com/habnabit/passacre" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;habnabit&#x2F;passacre</a> , only tied to a cellphone in exchange for sparing the user the burden to remember their login. It would be interesting if the SQRL website code would also display the nonce under the QR and the user could download a desktop program to paste the nonce in. Even if it weren&#x27;t open source, as long as both windows&#x2F;linux binaries are available, people could even set it up on a server of their own so they&#x27;d just paste the nonce at a private url.
nly超过 11 年前
I think you can MITM this by presenting legitimate (proxied) ycombinator.com QR codes on e.g. ycombigator.com.<p>The app would still authenticate to the legitimate site and then &#x27;activate&#x27; the session, and ycombigator.com could have at it. HTTPS won&#x27;t help either. The problem is there&#x27;s no way for the phone app to transfer additional secure session cookies back to your desktop browser, so this has to be the case.<p>Sure, the app will display the legitimate domain or URL but the user probably thinks that&#x27;s what they&#x27;re viewing on their desktop anyway, so will likely accept.<p>Requires mutual authentication.
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yogo超过 11 年前
Very interesting solution. I haven&#x27;t listened to Security Now in a while but it&#x27;s good to see Steve Gibson thinking about these things.
tptacek超过 11 年前
How is this better than any other phone-based 2-factor auth scheme?
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veesahni超过 11 年前
Interesting - so you generate a key pair on your phone (this is your identity and can be backed up to a printable QR code). Then, to login to any site, you scan a QR code displayed beside a login form and your phone can verify it&#x27;&#x27;s identity (i.e. proves that it&#x27;s the holder of the key pair). Perhaps on the first sign-in, the site will ask for an email address or some details to create an account for you.
derefr超过 11 年前
The thing this is most similar to is Twitter&#x27;s recent 2FA implementation. Except, instead of the site automatically pinging the app to open on your phone (and then you ACKing or NAKing the ping), it requires you to open it yourself and scan a code on the screen (thus implicitly ACKing it.) Everything else happens the same.
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artjumble超过 11 年前
This all sounds interesting, but I was just thinking this would be a great way to unlock a computer. Scan the &#x27;lock&#x27; screen with your phone. Probably not good for an office environment (too easy to grab someone else&#x27;s phone), but I would use it at home.
umsm超过 11 年前
This is an interesting concept.<p>The authentication should be safe to be transmitted on the same network... What about if the phone and computer are on the same (i.e. WiFi) network?
asgentile超过 11 年前
Thinking about the user experience for this. I want to authenticate, so I hunt down my phone, launch an app, scan a code, press a button in the app to submit. This seems to me like quite a long process versus the traditional typing in a username and password. What about the implications of a stolen phone?
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mixologic超过 11 年前
&quot;because the private key required to create the signature never leaves your smartphone.&quot;<p>Sure. People never get their phones stolen, never buy new phones, people never irreplaceably destroy their phones dropping them in a toilet.
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blibble超过 11 年前
google did this last year: <a href="http://www.zdnet.com/googles-open-sesame-login-ditches-passwords-3040094830/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.zdnet.com&#x2F;googles-open-sesame-login-ditches-passw...</a>
jbert超过 11 年前
I <i>think</i> this is pretty the same thing as storing a secure cookie?<p>Except the &#x27;cookie&#x27; is the private key on the phone, so it&#x27;s tied to the phone not to a particular browser.<p>Other than that, I don&#x27;t see a difference between the two?<p>I think this is basically a long-lived session cookie, stored out-of-band.<p>I also don&#x27;t see how the public&#x2F;private keypair changes anything. Why not just store the nonce on the phone? If the nonce has only ever gone over https to the user, no-one else will know it.
DanBC超过 11 年前
They don&#x27;t offer a reference implementation.<p>The documentation provided is a bit rambling and jumps around; it has stuff people don&#x27;t need and doesn&#x27;t have some stuff people do need.<p>It&#x27;s a bit scary to think that people are going to implement some crypto stuff based on just this and release it into the wild as a secure solution.<p>There&#x27;s a similar problem with password safes - some of them seem secure enough, but there are many and who knows whether those are any good or not.
nfoz超过 11 年前
How does this compare to OpenID? Seems similar except with the premise that a user is their own identity provider, which is a QR-code-reading app on their smartphone.<p>I like!
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ijansch超过 11 年前
Have a look at <a href="http://tiqr.org" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;tiqr.org</a> for an existing implementation of this same idea. Complete with open source server implementation and android&#x2F;ios apps (which are open sourced too).
EugeneOZ超过 11 年前
I feel is something missing in that algorithm of check. And... Not all services are web, not all web services are public (so mobile app will not be able to open url), and U don&#x27;t understand why bots will not scan that QR.
lisper超过 11 年前
Another replacement for usernames and passwords:<p><a href="http://dswi.net/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;dswi.net&#x2F;</a><p>Note: the SSL certificate on the demo server has expired. I&#x27;m working on getting it renewed, but this is just a demo anyway.
dlucci超过 11 年前
Correct me if I&#x27;m wrong, but couldn&#x27;t this still be susceptible to DNS Spoofing? This goes under the assumption that the URL has not been tampered with, if I&#x27;m not mistaken?
josephwegner超过 11 年前
So, this is essentially a less cool version of getclef.com , right?
rpledge超过 11 年前
This is very similar to my project at <a href="http://qrauth.com" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;qrauth.com</a>
joetech超过 11 年前
I don&#x27;t like this as standalone authentication, but as part of a 2-stage scenario, I would use it.
e12e超过 11 年前
Nice system - but there&#x27;s not even a proof of concept? Or am I missing something?
Sami_Lehtinen超过 11 年前
Quick + &#x2F; - analysis:<p>- &quot;But no two visitors will ever have the same ID&quot;. - How is that confirmed, generating random 512 bit keys do not guarantee never having same ID. It&#x27;s just quite unlikely.<p>- SQRL lacks strong web-site identification, that&#x27;s a bad thing. Domain name isn&#x27;t strong authentication. I would like to include strong site identity with within the QR-key. (Evil website attack, NS spoofing &#x2F; MITM)<p>+ No shared secrets is a real bonus. Except, if the attacker has full access to the site already and steals password, they can steal everything else. Therefore if password hashes are stolen, it&#x27;s major breach of security, and all passwords should be immediately reset. Of course nobody&#x27;s using same password for separate sites. So, site was breached and thats it anyway.<p>&#x2F; Out-of-band authentication, well, in some cases yes, in some cases no. I wouldn&#x27;t call this true out of band solution. Especially when using mobile browser, or shared WLAN connection. Fact that authentication data is also routed on same internet route at the server end sounds quite likely. Of course this can be fixed by service provider if they really want to do it.<p>+ No third-party, that&#x27;s the only way to go. In anycase when there&#x27;s a third-party, the solution already sucks badly. That&#x27;s one of the main reasons why I hate most of SSO solutions. (Single Sign On)<p>- Mobile (nor desktop) devices aren&#x27;t secure, having keys in mobile device isn&#x27;t considered to be secure and those can be extracted. Default mobile device protection isn&#x27;t good enough for password &#x2F; identity protection. Most of people aren&#x27;t even using simple 4 digit pin. Real + would come form completely separate authentication device.<p>- Using long password with mobile is horrible. My GPG private key password is 20+ chars including tons of special chars. Try typing that with mobile, repeatedly. If shorter passphrases &#x2F; keys are used, not enough entropy is included.<p>- &quot;A password lockout system&quot;. Eh? Same method should prevent any web-site password hacks too. ;) Anyway, with proper password, guessing should still be futile, read my statement about password earlier. If the password got even 128+ bits of entryopy, it&#x27;s going to be long guessing marathon. I don&#x27;t really care even if you try to guess 1 or 10000 pwd&#x2F;seconds.<p>&#x2F; &quot;such as a personal safe deposit box&quot; - Is not truly secure, what a joke stament.<p>- Document doesn&#x27;t describe how identity authentication is linked to the actual client logging in. Basically this would mean that there has to be cookie version of cryptoraphic challenge, or some other data linked to that, which has to be stored for a while at web-servers end. Could this be used to create resource consumption DDoS attack on the service? That&#x27;s one of the reasons why I don&#x27;t like solutions which require web-server to maintain state for non-logged in users.
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jaequery超过 11 年前
i love the site&#x27;s design