TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Nuclear fusion milestone passed at US lab

467 点作者 olegp超过 11 年前

26 条评论

sam超过 11 年前
It is an important milestone. But to have a commercially viable fusion reactor, you&#x27;ll need a factor of 50-100 more energy out than in to make up for inefficiencies in electricity generation using this kind of scheme.<p>The real story here is that this facility allows the US to do nuclear weapons research without violating the nuclear test ban treaty. If the goal was to develop a commercially viable fusion reactor, the $3,500,000,000 spent so far could have been put into projects geared towards small scale fusion experiments investigating novel confinement schemes.<p>Like the one I was working on, <a href="http://meetings.aps.org/Meeting/DPP07/Event/71002" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;meetings.aps.org&#x2F;Meeting&#x2F;DPP07&#x2F;Event&#x2F;71002</a> whose funding has since been cut and has been mothballed.
评论 #6512201 未加载
评论 #6512516 未加载
评论 #6512606 未加载
评论 #6512177 未加载
评论 #6512524 未加载
评论 #6513384 未加载
评论 #6512409 未加载
评论 #6513309 未加载
评论 #6512192 未加载
dekhn超过 11 年前
A good place to start if you want to understand the purported rationale for the NIF (stockpile stewardship), I suggest reading and understanding this light introduction to modern nuclear weapons. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermonuclear_weapon" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Thermonuclear_weapon</a> (the rhodes books, Making of the Atomic Bomb is required background reading, as is Dark Sun, if you want to get into the backstore).<p>In particular: The NIH experiment recapitulates many of the design aspects of a thermonuclear weapon, but does so in a highly controlled lab environment.<p>I&#x27;m a biophysicist. I know a fair amount of engineering, although I&#x27;m not a weapons physicist. Nonetheless, after years of reading about the NIF and various fusion projects I&#x27;ve come to believe that there is little justification for their expenditure. In particular, we can do stockpile stewardship without this device, more cheaply, nor does NIF present an economically viable method to production of power at a large scale in even the most rosy predictions.<p>I still think the experimental design is cool, but I can&#x27;t see this as a rational expenditure (HUGE opex and capex) compared to other investments we could be making.<p>Most likely scenario I see in 20 years is that china will be mass-manufacturing small, safe fission reactors and making a mint selling them to the rest of the world. That&#x27;s got far less reqiurement for massive capex and opex. It&#x27;s just that the western nations decided to go stupid about fission because OH GOD NUCLEAR MUTATIONS and stop investing in building more reliable, safer, and smaller plants.
评论 #6512187 未加载
评论 #6512716 未加载
评论 #6514444 未加载
评论 #6513248 未加载
nickpinkston超过 11 年前
This is awesome news - I visited the NIF a few months ago and they seemed a little downtrodden when asked about results.<p>I bet they&#x27;re all cocky now!<p>They also told us that the lasers they use, if built with modern tech today, would actually only be the size of a 40&#x27; cargo container (as opposed to like 100K sq-ft building), and cost like 1000x less. Pretty epic...<p>If we invested in fusion power like we did water power less than a century ago, I can only imagine the possibilities...
评论 #6511883 未加载
评论 #6513217 未加载
Jormundir超过 11 年前
I think Nuclear Fusion is the single most exciting up-and-coming technology. I can&#x27;t believe we&#x27;re not throwing a hundred billion dollars at it.<p>Make fusion, not war.
评论 #6511692 未加载
评论 #6511717 未加载
评论 #6511909 未加载
评论 #6511766 未加载
knappador超过 11 年前
Producing net-energy is a different story than collecting net-energy. NIF just blows up a canister with a pellet and takes forever to reload a shot. On the other hand, an at-least-as-promising technology like Dense Plasma Focus (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dense_plasma_focus" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Dense_plasma_focus</a>) is still receiving minuscule funding. I&#x27;m hoping to be able to meaningfully support DPF and other fusion technologies soon. DPF has my attention so far because of its scaling characteristics.
评论 #6511936 未加载
评论 #6511853 未加载
dtap超过 11 年前
There was not an overall net gain.<p>Direct from the source <a href="http://1.usa.gov/1e4Na9Q" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;1.usa.gov&#x2F;1e4Na9Q</a>.<p>8 kJ out from 1.7 MJ (1700 kJ) in. At the end of the month they were able to get 14 kJ. I believe they are referring to the energy released within the hohlraum.<p>Also, if you are interested there are privately funded companies doing this, General Fusion (<a href="http://www.generalfusion.com/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.generalfusion.com&#x2F;</a>) and TriAlpha Energy (secretive and funded by the Russian govt., but in California). The VC fund I work for has invested in GF and obviously we think there is promise :)
Mizza超过 11 年前
Ah, okay, cool!<p>I remember this being announced a while back, but I didn&#x27;t understand why it was significant if the energy in was less than the energy out. This article helps to clear it up.<p>The missing piece was that I didn&#x27;t understand how this reactor works. I thought they just blasted a lot of lasers directly at the hydrogen isotopes. Instead, it seems like that use the lasers to shoot something else, which then creates a lot of x-rays which actually start the reaction.<p>The significant thing here is that the energy produced is greater than the amount of energy coming in from the X-rays, but not the lasers which power those X-rays.<p>Is that correct? (Not surprisingly, I&#x27;m not a physicist!)
评论 #6511984 未加载
breckinloggins超过 11 年前
I keep seeing this same story pop up (from what I presume is the same September event).<p>Is there anything new this round? Perhaps some new results from post-experiment data analysis? The article isn&#x27;t really clear on this point.
sliverstorm超过 11 年前
Not really well-informed enough to comment on details, but it&#x27;s fantastic to see the field is still moving, even if slowly. Proud that we are still funding this kind of research.
评论 #6511625 未加载
guimarin超过 11 年前
tl;dr - Another article about the US nuclear weapons research facility at Lawrence Livermore, AKA NIF, and its sideshow 57th priority.<p>On a related note. It&#x27;s been really sad to see the US slowly lose its edge in plasma based fusion tech, specifically tokamaks, which seem to be the only credible long-term method of sustaining a fusion reaction for power-plant purposes.
评论 #6511873 未加载
pslam超过 11 年前
On the article itself: why did it take 6 paragraphs of text to finally mention what the milestone was? I hate this style of article writing, and it&#x27;s usually a good bullshit-signal for any story. That&#x27;s a shame, because it looks like this is the Real Thing (in a small way).
gnator超过 11 年前
Not much of a physicist myself but I am wondering if the technology developed for nuclear fusion would have any use in progressing other fields
评论 #6511932 未加载
rpedela超过 11 年前
Great, but I don&#x27;t see how these extremely expensive nuclear fusion projects will ever beat price&#x2F;kW of coal without heavy subsidies. My bet is that dense plasma focus is the future of cheap, clean power. Only time will tell though.<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dense_plasma_focus" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Dense_plasma_focus</a>
评论 #6512136 未加载
评论 #6511708 未加载
评论 #6511862 未加载
moca超过 11 年前
&quot;the amount of energy released through the fusion reaction exceeded the amount of energy being absorbed by the fuel&quot; means it is at least 4 orders of magnitude away from being useful.<p>Since we still depends on nuclear power for decades to come, it is much cost effective to invest safer and cleaner nuclear fission reactors. The kind of fast reactor that can burn down nuclear waste so we don&#x27;t need to build nuclear waste storage system, which nobody knows how to build anyway. That would give us power supply for several centuries (along with renewable energy). Too many countries wasted too much money on fusion reactors for decades, while we are still running nuclear reactors designed&#x2F;built more than 30 years ago. Just wrong priority order.
jimmcslim超过 11 年前
What would be the impact of a &#x27;fusion economy&#x27;, assuming realistic evolution of the technology for the purposes of commercialisation? (i.e. I&#x27;m assuming &quot;Mr Fusion&quot; powerplants on top of one&#x27;s DeLorean aren&#x27;t ever going to be practically feasible).<p>What would such a world look like? Does it promote world peace; through greater energy security for nations, would less reliance on fossil fuels for baseload electricity generation have a significant impact on price of air travel&#x2F;sea cargo?
评论 #6512367 未加载
评论 #6512641 未加载
drjesusphd超过 11 年前
&gt; the amount of energy released through the fusion reaction exceeded the amount of energy being absorbed by the fuel<p>So what? What if the fueld didn&#x27;t absorb anything? What do they mean by &quot;absorb&quot;, anyway? This article is lacking in details, peer-reviewed literature, or even the names of scientists willing to stake their reputation on this claim.<p>The BBC should know better.
manimalcruelty超过 11 年前
What is the opinion on Lockheed Martin&#x27;s Skunkworks High beta fusion reactor? <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_beta_fusion_reactor" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;High_beta_fusion_reactor</a><p>How does this stack up against the more conventionally theorised techniques?
unreal37超过 11 年前
If reliable fusion technology were developed, would the government share it with the public or would it be kept hidden away?<p>Sadly I&#x27;m not joking. I think there&#x27;s a 50-50 chance that any cool science that gets development by the U.S. government just becomes a classified DoD missile project.
评论 #6512109 未加载
评论 #6513422 未加载
ck2超过 11 年前
Is it plausible this lab is trying to figure out how to make nuclear explosions without the radiation?<p>Because just imagine how terrifying the world would become from a superpower that didn&#x27;t have to fear the radiation aftermath.<p>Fusion research seems like just a complete cover up.
Apocryphon超过 11 年前
Glad to hear that this is continuing at LLNL despite the shutdown. Too bad no politician is going to use this as an example of why gov&#x27;t investment is not a bad thing.
评论 #6515445 未加载
2muchcoffeeman超过 11 年前
What ever happened to the polywell reactor design?
评论 #6512918 未加载
评论 #6513287 未加载
fuddle超过 11 年前
I can imagine everyone driving around in Tesla cars powered by Nuclear fusion in the not too distant future.
abelardx超过 11 年前
It looks cold in that lab. Cold fusion?
drjesusphd超过 11 年前
What milestone? Be specific.
enupten超过 11 年前
This is wonderful news, go NIF !
devx超过 11 年前
Wow, I remember seeing this project start up a few years ago, about how they wanted to make a &quot;sun&quot; on Earth. It seems it only took them 5 years to achieve this:<p><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/3981697/Scientists-plan-to-ignite-tiny-man-made-star.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.telegraph.co.uk&#x2F;science&#x2F;science-news&#x2F;3981697&#x2F;Scie...</a><p>In a way, it reminds of Spiderman, too, but let&#x27;s hope things don&#x27;t go as badly as in the movie, once we start to make that &quot;sun&quot; big enough to provide a ton of energy.
评论 #6513274 未加载
评论 #6512253 未加载