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The Brain in a Vat Argument

28 点作者 infinity超过 11 年前

17 条评论

throwaway_yy2Di超过 11 年前
Wow, what a tangle of verbosity. Yes, you could be a brain in a vat. Or you could be a brain on a biped. Obviously you cannot distinguish between these two possibilities merely by <i>thinking</i> about them, because your thought processes are equally compatible with either scenario (by construct, by the premise of the question). A simulation good enough to be indistinguishable from reality, cannot be distinguished from reality -- that&#x27;s the definition.<p>The fun thing about this quack philosophy is that&#x27;s it&#x27;s falsifiable, that in a couple decades, we&#x27;ll actually have brains in vats, and kids will play games where they shuffle a kid&#x27;s brain around and have him guess if he&#x27;s in a vat or not. And with the higher-end iVats, they&#x27;ll never be able to tell. And they&#x27;ll totally <i>ridicule</i> the tenured philosophy faculty, they&#x27;ll be so mean, what the hell have you been doing with your grant money?
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rowyourboat超过 11 年前
This is the kind of philosophical argument I cannot understand. The question is essentially: &quot;Given that it is impossible to know X, how could you know if X&quot;?<p>There is nothing to think about. The scenario answers its own question.
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chiph超过 11 年前
Apologies to David Byrne.<p><pre><code> You may find yourself living as a brain in a vat You may find yourself in another biped body You may find yourself behind the wheel of a large automobile You may find yourself in a beautiful house with a beautiful wife You may ask yourself, well, how did I get here?</code></pre>
leephillips超过 11 年前
The question of whether you are living in a simulation is not merely up for grabs. There is a fascinating argument here[0] that approaches the problem probabilistically; the conclusion is that you probably are.<p>[0]<a href="http://people.uncw.edu/guinnc/courses/Spring11/517/Simulation.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;people.uncw.edu&#x2F;guinnc&#x2F;courses&#x2F;Spring11&#x2F;517&#x2F;Simulatio...</a>
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actualdc1超过 11 年前
In my experience (as a student of philosophy at a strong university program), Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy is the go-to reference resource for such articles. Here&#x27;s their version:<p><a href="http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/skepticism-content-externalism/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;plato.stanford.edu&#x2F;entries&#x2F;skepticism-content-externa...</a>
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mgunes超过 11 年前
In &quot;Pandora&#x27;s Hope&quot;, Bruno Latour goes to great length to attack the artificial subject-object and nature-culture separations that are the legacy of the Cartesian paradigm. It&#x27;s a highly intriguing book. Here&#x27;s the foreword, which deals directly with the brain-in-a-vat:<p><a href="http://www.bruno-latour.fr/sites/default/files/70-DO-YOU-BELIEVE-IN-REALITY-GB.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bruno-latour.fr&#x2F;sites&#x2F;default&#x2F;files&#x2F;70-DO-YOU-BEL...</a>
paternalist超过 11 年前
Let me tell you why you&#x27;re here. You&#x27;re here because you know something. What you know you can&#x27;t explain, but you feel it. You&#x27;ve felt it your entire life, that there&#x27;s something wrong with the world. You don&#x27;t know what it is, but it&#x27;s there, like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad.
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araybold超过 11 年前
My initial impression of Putnam&#x27;s argument is that it carefully constructed in order to avoid confronting the crux of the matter. It is reminiscent of how Zeno&#x27;s &#x27;Achilles and the tortoise&#x27; paradox fails to actually consider the time when Achilles catches up with the tortoise.
sambeau超过 11 年前
This is a modern updating of Decartes&#x27;s Demon concept from 1641.<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_demon" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Evil_demon</a>
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dspeyer超过 11 年前
&gt; For there is a good argument to the effect that if metaphysical realism is true, then global skepticism is also true, that is, it is possible that all of our referential beliefs about the world are false.<p>But they&#x27;re not going to tell us what the argument is.<p>This extremely counter-intuitive claim seems to be the heart of their argument. I suspect they&#x27;re using sloppy language to confuse the difference between knowledge and certainty, but since they never spell it out I don&#x27;t know.
JulianMorrison超过 11 年前
Defining &quot;know&quot; something to mean &quot;know the probability of something is exactly 1&quot;, then yeah, you can&#x27;t do that. No amount of Bayesian evidence can raise a probability from uncertain to infinitely certain.<p>So what you need to do, is tear up that useless definition of &quot;know&quot; and replace it with something sensible like &quot;I know X if the evidence for it is very strong.&quot;
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LogicalBorg超过 11 年前
If I were a brain in a vat, why would the truth or falsehood of my beliefs matter? I can&#x27;t interact with the world from the vat.
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yaddayadda超过 11 年前
In related news, the universe is a hologram - <a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6883611" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=6883611</a>
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snarfy超过 11 年前
On a somewhat similar note, there is the simulation argument:<p><a href="http://www.simulation-argument.com/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.simulation-argument.com&#x2F;</a>
analog31超过 11 年前
In my case, the vat contains coffee. ;-)
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JoeAltmaier超过 11 年前
It doesn&#x27;t matter how the idea comes to us; we can still argue and come up with truth.
thenerdfiles超过 11 年前
<a href="http://www.hist-analytic.com/MooreExternalWorld.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.hist-analytic.com&#x2F;MooreExternalWorld.pdf</a>