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The Jobless Ph.D. Generation

86 点作者 jzila超过 11 年前

14 条评论

impendia超过 11 年前
I am a math professor. My first Ph.D. student got a job outside of academia and I was happy to support him fully and unreservedly.<p>But:<p>&gt;students still come out with a very narrow window of extremely specialized knowledge<p>Duh.<p>&gt;Additional courses in broader topics such as writing and business would also be beneficial (6).<p><i>Huh?</i> This suggestion ignores the purpose of a Ph.D.: to <i>produce a piece of original research</i>, which is necessarily extremely specialized.<p>(And for that matter, if students in my Ph.D. program want to enroll in courses in business, writing, or anything else, they can.)<p>If students or employers want alternative degree programs, that is well and good, I encourage universities to begin offering them, and as a professor I would be quite happy to teach and advise such students.<p>But I see no reason to dilute Ph.D. programs, which continue to serve the purpose for which they were created.
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tensor超过 11 年前
Here we go again. HN with the anti-academic stance. Almost every week now, we get something like this.<p>Why is everyone here so insecure that they feel the need to beat up on those who choose knowledge instead of money? You don&#x27;t go into a PhD to get rich. You do it to learn. If you want to learn, do science on your own. Let&#x27;s see some detailed reports, complete with hypothesis, methods, data, and conclusions.<p>Nothing is stopping you. As for these articles, they are not science. There are infinitely more of these than actual science by the HN crowd. That is because zero startup science articles come through here. The occasional industry science piece comes up, but even most of those are collaborations with academia.<p>If you are truly so passionate about science, prove it with actions.
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HarryHirsch超过 11 年前
This is a weak piece, it overlooks many things.<p>First, there seems to be the idea that a PhD&#x27;s place is in academia. Where is this idea even coming from? Back in a different time I got a degree in chemistry in Germany, and the idea was that you would sign up with one if the chemical companies. The degree program was very thorough and broad and lasted five years, and you would start work, be given a mentor, and do anything chemical. Your degree equipped you to do that, it was very broad, if it was chemistry you had heard of it. A PhD was required, chemical technicians would be trained on the job. The lesson here is that a broad degree makes you more employable, but you cannot sell this idea when students have to raise their own funds to pay for their degree and when state and federal funding lines for universities keep shrinking.<p>But what happened was several things: the great monoliths that in Germany had a standing like Microsoft or Google were broken up and sold off (except the BASF), and the perennial pharmco crisis started.<p>There is another lesson, I think: deep science requires deep pockets that only a large, established company can provide. Startups are no solution: it seems that the big pharmcos are now turning into brokers that acquire startups, in-house projects aren&#x27;t done any longer, instead you acquire a startup, and testing is contracted out abroad. Another problem: no one cooks up their own compounds any longer, you contract out to a Chinese contract shop that employs PhDs from China. I&#x27;m not sure if this is cheaper or better (there is something to be said for short communication lines - just walk up a floor), but it is current practice.<p>Also: at my second-tier state school the quality of applicants started really going up after 2009, when the crisis had settled in. To me this means that private jobs have disappeared, and universities aren&#x27;t hiring much either.<p>This is an economic problem, and I really can&#x27;t see how turning universities into trade schools could be helpful to create jobs. Neither do I see how increased reliance on privately-funded research institutes would help - no matter how big their endowment they would still be competing for external funding, the biggest source of which is the NIH. But the NIH keeps getting its funding cut.<p>There&#x27;s the other problem: the government isn&#x27;t funding science as much as it ought to.
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analog31超过 11 年前
When I was finishing my PhD in 1993, I told my advisor that I had received an industry job offer. I also mentioned this at interviews for two academic positions. The response of my advisor, and of interviewers, was along the lines of: &quot;If you&#x27;ve got an industry job offer in this climate, why would you even consider applying for academic jobs?&quot;
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streptomycin超过 11 年前
<i>After entering a Ph.D. program, it quickly became obvious that when in academia, the only respectable job is considered to be, you guessed it, academia.</i><p>The whole article relies on that sentence, but it&#x27;s not supported by anything but an anecdote. Certainly that was not my experience. Although I did pick an advisor who was very practical and worked in industry before coming back to academia, I don&#x27;t recall any of my friends feeling like they were being pressured towards academia (this is across many departments at many schools).<p>Similarly, I&#x27;m not worried about jobless PhDs. If you&#x27;re smart enough to get a technical PhD, you&#x27;re smart enough to do many things (check the unemployment rate by degree level if you don&#x27;t believe me). Friends who have gone the postdoc path typically chose that over more lucrative and stable job offers from industry, and with full knowledge that it could very likely lead them nowhere in their career. You might be ignorant of the harsh realities of becoming a tenured professor when you start your PhD, but you certainly aren&#x27;t by the time you finish.<p>Of course, these are just my anecdotes... but I guess my point is that I probably wouldn&#x27;t submit my anecdotes to HN without something more meaningful backing them.
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jds375超过 11 年前
Speaking as en ex-physics major and student with their heart previously set on a Ph.D. and academic career, I can relate to the sentiment at the end of this article. Many of my peers (undergraduate and graduate researchers) looked down on non-academic jobs. This is a sentiment that definitely needs to change. It&#x27;ll make everyone happier.
tedsanders超过 11 年前
I&#x27;m a PhD student, and pursing non-academic work after graduate school is totally normal and expected. Many of my advisor&#x27;s former students have entered industry, so how could she not both expect and accept it? I wonder where this attitude is most prevalent. I imagine it varies across country, region, university, department, etc.<p>Edit: That said, I don&#x27;t think my advisor does a good job preparing us for industry.
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okadaka超过 11 年前
I think you generalized some odd cases. I know a few CS and physics professors as friends. Every reasonable professor knows that there are way fewer academic jobs than PhD graduates. To expect all your students to go to academia is silly &amp; is not the norm among professors.<p>Surely, a professor should strive to have his&#x2F;her students graduate with sufficient publication record to be suitable for an academic job. Not everyone will have it upon graduation. And it is not the sole point that you must go to academia!<p>In some fields, there are research jobs outside of academia (eg in CS, Google, IBM, Microsoft, Intel). And in most fields, if you go to industry you make way more money. You just don&#x27;t get tenure, sabbatical and as much freedom, but it is hardly a failure.
auctiontheory超过 11 年前
The otherwise well-written article omits to mention that most current PhD students should have thought a few moves ahead and not matriculated in the first place. That&#x27;s the real problem. PhD programs should no more need to teach &quot;how to be a consultant&quot; than BA programs should need to teach remedial algebra and writing.
ChristianMarks超过 11 年前
Articles like this are almost enough motivation to start a movement that I would call Technologists Against Academia. The premise is that since technologists are generally second-class citizens in academia, they should not support the work and unattainable careers of its first class citizens.
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MatthiasP超过 11 年前
Too many students see a PhD as potential career and income booster instead of what it really is, the first step in becoming a scientist.
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mdda超过 11 年前
There&#x27;s also a completely mundane&#x2F;political explanation (which would apply to industry too). If you&#x27;re really good, you&#x27;re an asset to your boss, and your success reflects well on them. So leaving is a backward step as far as they are selfishly concerned. (Imagine your start-up&#x27;s CTO left for a &quot;better opportunity&quot;...)
jccalhoun超过 11 年前
I did my dissertation in the humanities (and since I don&#x27;t have a job I&#x27;m putting off actual graduation as long as I can which is only until may...) and I would love to get a job as a professor but at this point any job that would let me use my skills would be something i would jump at.
infocollector超过 11 年前
Is there a graph like this per department somewhere? Also: Can a degree get you a job data (either industry&#x2F;academia) would be very interesting to look at for Bachelor&#x27;s and Master&#x27;s per degree.