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Ask HN: Is setting up a remote team of developers in India worth it?

13 点作者 starter超过 11 年前
Market wages are currently dramatically lower. Potential hires seem to speak really good English considering it's their second language. I still want to make sure there isn't some kind of catch!

15 条评论

geophile超过 11 年前
Assuming you aren&#x27;t trolling: No, absolutely not.<p>My experience, at two companies, is that what you save in development costs, you quickly pay for (and then some) in management overhead, and low code quality. Some of the code we got was simply not salvageable. (And of course, it consumed time on our side to review the code, reach this conclusion, and document the suckage.)<p>If outsourcing has any chance of working it is for rigorously specified requirements. If there is any wiggle room, or even if you expect common sense to apply to fill in the gaps, you will be disappointed.<p>Why is the reality so bad?<p>- You have little choice about the actual developers you work with. Would you hire your own development team by phoning up a headhunter, asking for a half dozen developers, and then taking whatever the guy sends over? Of course not. Why should this work any better from an outsource agency?<p>- Any marginally competent developer at an outsource firm gets moved into management quickly. (At least in the companies we worked with.)<p>- Distance sucks. Do you really want to schedule meetings with 10-13 hour time differences? Deal with any required travel to and from India? Really?<p>Outsourcing is a clueless executive&#x27;s idea of how to get software written. It was a new business trend in the early 2000s, (so long ago that I wonder whether you&#x27;re trolling), and it was weird: I kept challenging the decision to outsource, and the rationale kept changing. Basically, it was a trend, so the executive making the decision wanted to do it, reasons be damned.
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davismwfl超过 11 年前
Having worked with a number of Indian firms since 1998 and having friends there this is my take.<p>It is no different then the US, some suck, some are good, some are awesome.<p>The problem isn&#x27;t India vs US, it is distance, communication and numbers. And the reality is it truly boils down to a numbers game, if you don&#x27;t know someone, you are more likely to have nothing but headaches. Also the time difference seems minor to manage at first, or even an advantage, but you soon find out it is a pain in the ass.<p>Overall, even knowing there are great people in India, I won&#x27;t use it as a primary source of development for anything. Too many times I have had issues, so I just won&#x27;t do it. If a friend that lives there has some spare cycles, I will do that in a heartbeat because I know they can&#x2F;will deliver.<p>Also, as a whole, we pick up more failed projects from eastern areas than anywhere else. My 2 cents is this isn&#x27;t because they aren&#x27;t capable, but the communication isn&#x27;t clear, and people are trying to seek out the lowest cost person&#x2F;firm. Seeking the lowest cost to me, means no matter where you are at you are not getting quality, but what you paid for.
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RealGeek超过 11 年前
I am original from India (now in New York), and I have hired over 40 developers, designers and marketers in New Delhi over the past few years.<p>You can hire good developers in India for $1,000 to $2,000 per month. It is viable to hire team in India, but hiring and managing them remotely is a nightmare. Remote teams in India are unreliable and not committed.<p>In India, you need hustle with your team to get shit done. The only way it is going to work is if you have someone one the ground.<p>Hiring good developers in India is difficult, retaining them is worse. Good developers are constantly bombarded by recruiters with very lucrative offers.<p>My 2 cents, It can be worth while if you want to go to India and build a development team. Stay away from outsourcing companies, they are only going to sink your time and money.
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wusatiuk超过 11 年前
From my experience, and I started all my projects with freelancers. I was very lucky with russian and ukraine developers but also polish &amp; czech developers seem to have kind of the right working attitude.<p>The main issues I had with indian developers is the &quot;yes yes culture&quot;. It seems that their culture does not allow to say &quot;no, it won´t be ready&quot; or &quot;no, it will take longer...&quot;. They always say &quot;yes, sir&quot;, &quot;for sure, sir&quot;. this is something I can not work with.
hkarthik超过 11 年前
Setting up a remote team of developers anywhere in the world purely to save on costs isn&#x27;t worth it.<p>You should hire remote because you simply don&#x27;t have access to the talent locally, or can&#x27;t assemble a local team quickly enough. And you should have at least one seasoned technical leader who&#x27;s worked with a distributed team before to guide you through the process.<p>Hiring remote devs halfway around the world because you can save 80% on wages is a pennywise and pound foolish decision.
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curiousquestion超过 11 年前
My 2 cents, from what I&#x27;ve been able to gather, the best resources in other countries are being paid comparably to US, or they&#x27;ve already migrated or set up a work visa with a US company. Talented developers know they&#x27;re talented and will seek out other people who can weed them out from the group. It is a rare case that you run into a highly qualified developer in any country who is working for pennies on the dollar.
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couchand超过 11 年前
I&#x27;ve never worked with a team in India, but I do have experience with outsourcing to eastern Europe. I don&#x27;t doubt the other comments that say it can be done, but in my experience it&#x27;s tough.<p>The development cycle goes roughly like this: - Early morning call to discuss requirements - E-mails over the course of the morning covering parts of the same requirements - Next morning call to discuss the same requirements (seems like we&#x27;ve got it this time) - Code review uncovers missing requirements...<p>Between the time difference, the multiple hand-offs and the communication problems we would spend an order of magnitude more time on a task than it would take an in-house resource.<p>I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s completely impossible to get the formula right, but you need to be explicit about everything, which doesn&#x27;t really work in an agile development cycle made of tight feedback loops. However, if you&#x27;re operating a more waterfall process and are able to code up a suite of acceptance tests, it could be workable.
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girish_h超过 11 年前
It depends on what kind of project you want the developers in India to get done, combined with the location(city) in India that you are planning to have your team work out of.<p>If its something like a mobile-first product, it will be better if you can have one of your trusted team-mates, who understands both the product and the aesthetics of your product, sit in India and operate the team: the reason being this team-mate will need to be hands-on with the developers on the product features and also add a lot of value on the aesthetics of the app.<p>In most cases, the developers in India lack these skills. As long as you are able to address that, you will be good.<p>The other most important question to ask yourself - are you looking at this team simply to save your development costs (or) are you looking to really collaborate with them and look at them to add value to your product? If its the former, then a lot of brickbats are thrown when the deliverables are getting delayed and you <i>may</i> end up in a bad state and write negative reviews about developers from India. But if you look at the India based team to add a lot of value to your product, then the guys will go any end to deliver the product for you. It becomes a happy ending for everyone. In this case, you wont even mind the 10-12 hour timezone difference.
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tom_b超过 11 年前
My friend, of East European descent (immigrated to the US as a teen), has started a company with a small number of software engineers from his home country. He is US-based and seems to be having success with these engineers building a platform and finding business.<p>The big win though is that he speaks the language and has direct hired his employees. This could be a catch for you if you are considering working with an outsourcing company. My friend is successful with his hires because he has the intangibles in place - speaking the language, occasional trips back to visit with them, works hard to direct hire (and keep) smart engineers, and he is personally vested in making sure he shares the &quot;spoils&quot; of the business with his employees. He also hacks on the platform, although not as much as in the beginning.<p>It sounds like you are considering a similar option, so you might be successful. You&#x27;ll be putting in <i>a lot</i> of time though - frequent conference calls, code reviews, dealing with the occasional bad-fit, etc. In many ways, I think it would be harder than finding someone local to you.
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porlw超过 11 年前
Don&#x27;t forget (and this applies to any outsourcing contract, anywhere in the world), the first people you encounter will be the A-grade talent.<p>Once the project kicks off the they will one-by-one be moved off to the next deal, and replaced with less experienced juniors and trainees.<p>You can try to contractually lock in particular people, but that&#x27;s impossible to guarantee if the team is remote.
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scdoshi超过 11 年前
It really depends on whether you want to outsource development or actually want a remote (but in house) dev team in India.<p>Most comments here are already inherently considering the remote team to be code monkeys who will churn out software based on specs. There is no magic here, to get good code, you need devs who are invested in the idea, and not second class citizens in the company.<p>Invest the same amount of resources into hiring people as you would here, pay not just a good but a great salary, make the Indian office a good place to work, where employees actually have a ladder to climb and have input in the product, and all this can work.<p>And yes, that most likely means having someone on the ground in the early days.<p>You can&#x27;t expect in attract great talent with half assed hiring measures and an intent to get code on the cheap. Those people are happy doing their own startups or working somewhere else.
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flarg超过 11 年前
I&#x27;ve worked with teams in India (and Poland, US, UK, Australia, Spain) for several years and quality depends on how well you manage the hiring and how well you manage the communication - remembering that communication is harder with anyone the farther you are away from being in the same room with someone. You may need to hire someone local to you to do this for you as communication is a full time job (a solution architect is the sort of role you&#x27;ll need).<p>Don&#x27;t expect miracles, &#x27;cause miracles cost money - but it&#x27;s got a 50&#x2F;50 chance of working out OK.
coppolaemilio超过 11 年前
What I know is that the quality of their code is very outdated and even being cheaper to hire you are going to spend lots of money fixing the code.<p>Nothing like having quality code!
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paulhauggis超过 11 年前
I am 1 of only 2 people on a 10 person remote team from the US. The rest are from India and Mexico.<p>Our team is finally okay after a year of people quitting, getting let go, or just not working out.<p>It doesn&#x27;t help that my boss just lets new people check anything into our dev repo without having our project manager look it over first...which has halted development more times than I can count.<p>The most common thing is that people just don&#x27;t know how to use git.
gesman超过 11 年前
Offshore indian programmers are one of the best to rely on:<p><a href="http://toprate.org/FILES/programmers.jpg" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;toprate.org&#x2F;FILES&#x2F;programmers.jpg</a>