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The myth of the fall

129 点作者 clarkm大约 11 年前

8 条评论

bbanyc大约 11 年前
<i>The MIT AI Lab itself never found its way to that new world. There’s a reason the Emacs text editor is the only software artifact of that culture that survives to us, and it had to be rewritten from the ground up on the way.</i><p>It didn&#x27;t come from MIT, but TeX is certainly an artifact of the same academic hacker culture. Knuth originally wrote it at SAIL to run on the local OS, WAITS. It was rewritten in Pascal, not C, to be portable to the wide range of operating systems out there in 1980.<p>(I understand that GNU info is also a reimplementation of MIT AI Lab software, which explains a lot.)
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zurn大约 11 年前
&gt; The Unix guys showed us the way out, by (a) inventing the first non-assembler language really suitable for systems programming, and (b) proving it by writing an operating system in it.<p>Not the first, see eg. Burroughs mainframes, early 60&#x27;s.<p>JOVIAL was another language, used for systems programming on the militay side, predating C and proven.<p>Pascal was contemporary with C and UCSD p-System was released just 2 years later than Unix. It was also more portable and retargetable than Unix.
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e12e大约 11 年前
&gt; This is why the earliest social experiments in what we would now call “open source” – at SHARE and DECUS – were restricted to individual vendors’ product lines and (often) to individual machine types.<p>Yes, because BASIC and Creative Computing magazine never happened.<p>Conflating the idea of sharing code, with the idea of sharing system level code doesn&#x27;t really help this essay IMNHO.<p>As for the &quot;creation myth&quot; -- I guess that refers to stuff like: <a href="http://oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/ch01.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;oreilly.com&#x2F;openbook&#x2F;freedom&#x2F;ch01.html</a><p>I&#x27;m not sure how this is supposed to be a &quot;myth&quot;. As far as I can tell we went from relatively open systems (if not free) to much more closed systems. And now, after the rise of various standard platforms (x86, sparc, arm) we&#x27;re in a strange (and a little scary) in-between place where we have oodles of great hardware, half of which we have no real idea how works, except for binary driver blobs.<p>I guess I just don&#x27;t understand the motivation for tying together the fact that we&#x27;ve come a long way in terms of system and language design, and that because of that we&#x27;ve been able to get some pretty solid open systems -- and that closed systems aren&#x27;t (and never was) a bad thing, because, you know *bsd and linux and stuff?<p>And there&#x27;s of course stuff like: <a href="http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/FreeBooks/BlueBook/Bluebook.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;stephane.ducasse.free.fr&#x2F;FreeBooks&#x2F;BlueBook&#x2F;Bluebook....</a><p>While later than C, in some ways arguably more open than unix (as it was actually published and distributed).
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filmgirlcw大约 11 年前
No matter how valid some of these arguments may or may not be, this is like the nth time ESR has had to make this sort of point, which is basically to attempt to lessen the cultural impact of RMS and the other MIT AI guys.<p>Like, we get it dude. 30+ years later you&#x27;re still upset that you didn&#x27;t get into MIT and weren&#x27;t part of the MIT&#x2F;CMU&#x2F;SAIL crowd. Steven Levy didn&#x27;t mention you in <i>Hackers</i> and called RMS &quot;the last true hacker&quot; -- we get it, you&#x27;re still butthurt. But seriously dude, move the fuck on...
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leandrod大约 11 年前
As usual, ESR gives us quite a few factual errors and misrepresentations in order to try to elevate himself at RMS’s expense.
gaius大约 11 年前
<i>The reason is brutally simple: software wasn’t portable!</i><p>Uhh, CP&#x2F;M? More gibberish from ESR.
arca_vorago大约 11 年前
The myth of the fall is that we imagine we were at a higher place than we are now according to this, but I would say it&#x27;s not that black and white. In between proprietary products, the foss culture soared, and during years of proprietary product releases, it was relegated to the hacker and academic realms (as opposed to consumer).<p>Let&#x27;s not forget that the BSD (Net1) debacle didn&#x27;t even start till about 89 and Linux didn&#x27;t show up till, what, 91? There is a huge time gap between the origins of the open source culture and the practical availability for tinkerers.<p>Also, please, please don&#x27;t forget the influence of Minix in this (also not till 87). sidenote: If you weren&#x27;t aware, Minix 3 is now BSD licensed, and I find it as a ray of hope for the future (10k lines of kernel code vs what, 10mil in linux now? Let&#x27;s admit it, linux is getting out of control of the open source review principle... but I digress.)<p>The real gem of this article is the end:<p>&quot;We didn’t get here because we failed in our duty to protect a prelapsarian software commons, but because we succeeded in creating one.&quot;<p>What that really means is that although open source got us to where we are today, we are still in a very precarious position. &quot;Prelapsarian&quot; is right. We are in a time where the potential for a lapse back to proprietary is far too strong at the moment, and honestly while I understand the arguments between BSD and GPL, I think history has shown that BSD is far too easily abused (Apple&#x2F;Windows netstacks, etc), and RMS will in the future history books either be considered a visionary ahead of his time or wiped from the pages of history due to the totalitarianism in effect.<p>Software is a social issue, there is no way around that fact, and we ignore it at our peril.<p>(one more sidenote: I think one of the main threats of proprietary these days is, that as open source&#x2F;foss takes over, it becomes the backend blob that everyone ignores and forgets about. See: GSM stack, etc. We need to keep FOSS close to the hardware)
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prawn大约 11 年前
Don&#x27;t miss the first three comments at the end:<p>Jay Maynard (yeah, that Tron costume guy+) - &quot;Not only did RMS have to co-opt Unix technology, he bathed about it, as well.&quot; &quot;&quot;bathed&quot;??!?!! Damned auto-correct. That was supposed to be &quot;bitched&quot;.&quot;<p>Patrick Maupin: &quot;Yeah, we all knew RMS didn&#x27;t do <i>that</i>...&quot;<p>(RMS is not well known for exceptional personal hygiene.)<p>+ <a href="https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Jay+Maynard&amp;safe=off&amp;espv=210&amp;es_sm=91&amp;source=lnms&amp;tbm=isch" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.com.au&#x2F;search?q=Jay+Maynard&amp;safe=off&amp;espv...</a>
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