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The Problem With Photorealism

163 点作者 blackhole大约 11 年前

19 条评论

beloch大约 11 年前
It&#x27;s often been said that the difference between Steven Spielberg and Ed Wood is merely thousands of subtleties. Tiny things add up to either make or break created worlds.<p>Clipping is one of my biggest pet-peeves with current video game engines. It really destroys the illusion when stuff that looks realistic and solid starts magically clipping through something else that looks realistic and solid. How about when the camera passes too close to something and you see the hollow insides? This is especially jarring when it happens to be a character&#x27;s head and you see the backside of his&#x2F;her eyeballs and teeth! Pick any AAA title randomly, make a character, and then look at that character closely while standing in his&#x2F;her default start-of-the-game gear. The odds are good that you&#x27;ll see dozens of little bits of his&#x2F;her gear clipping into itself while that character is engaged in the default standing animation. It&#x27;s telling that even excellent artists can&#x27;t solve this problem for the one combination of gear and poses they know the player will see with 100% certainty.<p>The next big step for computer game realism is going to be material physics. Simulated materials instead of textured polygons and bounding boxes. This is going to be computationally intensive, but the boost to realism is probably going to be far greater than we&#x27;ll gain from ray-tracing.
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robmcm大约 11 年前
This guy isn&#x27;t thinking outside the box. He&#x27;s trying to solve the problem using techniques from the past.<p>Obviously the solution isn&#x27;t to manually make levels, it would be to automate them. Where are EA on flying scanning drones around football stadia in order to save artists thousands of man hours?<p>They already use these techniques to scan actors faces, I can imagine someone from 10 years ago predicting it would be impossible to script all the movements of lips and eyelids to produce realistic characters.<p>Disclaimer: I have no idea what I am talking about, but thought my off the cuff theory would have more weight if I wrote like I did.
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zeidrich大约 11 年前
Just simulate the entire universe. It requires a computer the size of the universe.<p>There is one freely available, however, you will have to share it with a few other people. It&#x27;s barely noticeable though because it&#x27;s highly parallelizable.
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PhasmaFelis大约 11 年前
Minecraft is an interesting case study here, in that it deliberately throws away realistic graphics in favor of a comprehensively mutable environment. It&#x27;s interesting how that seemed like such a totally unprecedented idea at the time.
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coldcode大约 11 年前
Having worked on a FPS MMO, I can&#x27;t agree with this enough. People always complained it didn&#x27;t look real enough. I always wanted to ask them if would mind buying 1,000 video cards up front and then wait 10 years buying 1000 new ones every year until I got it right. I figured by then I could retire and duck the problem. Reality is ridiculously hard to do right. Now try doing it over the internet with a half second ping time and you realize that not only reality bites, but physics bites harder.
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Geee大约 11 年前
I don&#x27;t know if you guys know how fast path-tracing is becoming reality. It just needs a few more years (of GPU advancement) to get rid of the noise, watch: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKqxonOrl4Q" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=aKqxonOrl4Q</a><p>For art, next-generation photorealistic graphics will be 3D scanned and&#x2F;or procedurally generated. Lots of work still (you can&#x27;t scan cars or anything mechanical), but graphics could also be reused more often.
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bitwize大约 11 年前
And that&#x27;s a big part of why video games suck these days. Creating a photorealistic or cinematic experience is extremely difficult and requires a huge amount of artistic assets, and even then the illusion only holds up under certain tight constraints. So game developers do as much as possible to enforce these constraints <i>all throughout the game</i>.
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mattgreenrocks大约 11 年前
I noticed the most recent crop of engines (thinking of Frostbite 3 here mostly) do a lot of cheating to run well. This is most apparent on the awful draw distance of terrain decoration. Draw-in is very apparent at even the highest graphics setting.<p>Worse, despite games like Battlefield having beautiful art assets, it takes very little for the illusion of photorealism to be destroyed; it could be as simple as getting too close to a piece of tall grass and realizing it&#x27;s actually just a sprite. Or noticing that a flag is always flapping one way, and smoke is drifting the opposite way.<p>It&#x27;s unfortunate, but the brain is really good at picking these inconsistencies out. More stylized games seem to age much better; TF2 still looks great.
DanielBMarkham大约 11 年前
Takeaway: the problem isn&#x27;t photorealism in games, although that&#x27;s hard enough. The problem is actually having somebody create the zillions of points of detail required to have something to photorealistically render.<p>So, seems like the technical challenge is to take a small portal, say 64x64 pixels, and then create a procedurally-based photorealistic (including damage, real-world illumination, and a damage model) engine to power it, right?
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ANTSANTS大约 11 年前
I prefer comics and cartoons to live-action movies. It&#x27;s ironic, but somehow, a primitive smile or frown on a cartoon character&#x27;s face feels more genuine and &quot;real&quot; to me than a professional actor pretending to be happy or sad. I can take a drawing as the unfiltered expression of the artist, but when I watch a live-action film and see real people carrying out the trappings of fiction, I have a hard time taking it seriously. It feels silly, kinda like how the so called &quot;uncanny valley&quot; effect makes bad CG creepy and not just unconvincing.<p>I don&#x27;t think that&#x27;s a common opinion, given the lasting appeal of television and Hollywood, and the lack of respect comics receive in comparison, but in my mind, if a drawing feels more &quot;real&quot; than an actual human acting in front of a camera, then photorealistic CG doesn&#x27;t stand a chance.
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aw3c2大约 11 年前
Wasn&#x27;t there something about people actually prefering non-photorealistic renderings more, at least in Google Earth?
drakaal大约 11 年前
It should be &quot;the problem OF photorealism&quot; not &quot;WITH&quot;. We all enjoy photorealism, but it is hard to make. We have a problem OF 3 times 6. Not a problem with 3 times 16.<p>Any how....<p>I worked on Flight sims in the mid 90&#x27;s. We had a problem of Physics back then. So we didn&#x27;t do real physics, we precalculated the physics based on a number of factors and loaded them in to tables, and if you were between point A and Point B in a table we took the weighted average of the two. It worked well enough.<p>Animations today do the same thing.<p>Anti-aliasing is now done based on point of contrast rather than the whole image. This works well enough, you notice the jaggies on white and black borders more than 45% grey next to 65% grey.<p>This doesn&#x27;t strike me as a well informed post. Others have pointed out that it is directed at those new to the space, fine, but if that&#x27;s the audience then explain &quot;uncanny valley&quot; in there somewhere. Where you can&#x27;t be &quot;right&quot; be far enough off people accept it as fake because it is. We see this all the time in Pixar. We also see it in racing games with &quot;arcade physics&quot;.
eslachance大约 11 年前
About the last point about generating content, I think it&#x27;s extremely likely that this leads us down the path of Voxels and Procedural Generation. Both those techniques together would help us at least get a starting point for an environment that&#x27;s generated from certain chosen parameters, and then the &quot;least effort&quot; becomes modifying that environment for your game needs.<p>I mean, if you can have a procedurally generated jungle with a huge mountain in the middle and a river cutting through the jungle, all you need to do really is to cut through the mountain for your secret underground base, create a couple of roads, camps and checkpoints and you&#x27;ve got a better remake of FarCry 1 (yeah I&#x27;m extrapolating of course but you get the idea).
radiorental大约 11 年前
I look at the loading scenes in GTAV and I wish the game looked like that, rather than the &#x27;uncanny valley&#x27; that it is.<p>Borderlands II is a great example of not trying to do something you cant, instead it has great art that you can lose yourself in.
marcusmolchany大约 11 年前
I&#x27;ve always wondered, given all the issues presented in this article and the expertise required to solve them does $50-$60 dollars properly pay the teams working on these games? Not even just engineers, there are artists and even actors capturing motion of characters and authors writing up scripts it doesn&#x27;t seem like $60 would cover everyone involved in creating a video game.
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z3phyr大约 11 年前
Can someone list the possible technical advancements in gamedev yet to happen?<p>-&gt; AI programmers are negative towards AI, saying gamers want &#x27;fun&#x27; not Intelligence.<p>-&gt; Graphics programmers say, the graphics will be photorealastic soon. What will graphics programmers do after that?<p>-&gt; Gameplay, they are focusing more on creating the same style?
olouv大约 11 年前
Reminded me this &quot;What Is Real&quot; trailer (<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dnw9dWISvw" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=4dnw9dWISvw</a>), I welcome any trick that can help the player&#x27;s immersion.
benched大约 11 年前
I am a long-time 3D graphicist, and have written numerous software and accelerated renderers. I am really struggling to see the point of this article (it seems trivial and tautological to me), although I&#x27;ll be glad if it generates some discussion.<p>This is an area where I feel very strongly that perception is reality, or at least so close to it as to make no difference. The game world is virtual, so the fact that say a rock is not made of zillions of atoms computing quantum chromodynamics doesn&#x27;t come as a surprise to anybody. Well, that&#x27;s a shortcut right there. Immediately, the game world is not arbitrarily &quot;realistic&quot;.<p>But I don&#x27;t think that&#x27;s what the word &quot;photorealism&quot; usually means. I know I&#x27;ve never used it that way. I use it to mean &quot;feels subjectively real&quot;. By that definition, as the OP alludes to, today&#x27;s most advanced game engines come very close. In my opinion, they come so close, that the rest is gravy.<p>That&#x27;s what will be coming in the next decade. More gravy, more cake, more icing. In the next year or so, somebody (Sony? Everquest Landmark?) will start the inevitable development toward Minecraft-style procedural&#x2F;cellular automata based worlds, combined with increasingly photorealistic rendering.
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vacri大约 11 年前
One of the things missing from &#x27;realistic&#x27; games is specular reflection and friends. Little subtleties like that help. One of my favourite moments in the realism wars was that phase where everyone had to have &#x27;realistic&#x27; water, and I remember logging into Morrowind for the first time. &quot;The water does look nice, shimmery and shiny&quot;... but it drew attention to the problem that nothing else in the game shined at all, it was all dead flat.