The Myth of the Science and Engineering Shortage

I think it is important to avoid using the term STEM and specifically dissect it in the discussions about shortage. Computer Science is a very peculiar part of STEM and not all of the STEM fields face the same challenges. As Hadi Partovi of Code.org put out eloquently in his testimony before Congress[1], there is a difference between enrollments in Computer Science and STEM in general. For instance, in US high schools, it seems like there is no shortage of students in biology or math, but CS is underenrolled.<p>[1]: <a href="http://www.c-span.org/video/?317093-1/house-subcmte-hearing-private-sector-stem-education" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.c-span.org&#x2F;video&#x2F;?317093-1&#x2F;house-subcmte-hearing-...</a>

The Silicon Valley cartel conspirators helped to depress wages and increase unemployment. Universities have relied on cheap student and postdoc labor. Their game-theoretic strategy is cheap talking their serfs into the belief that they too may become masters.<p>ADDENDUM: downvoters can take a warm piss on a power line.

I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce, and agriculture, in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain.<p>John Adams US diplomat &amp; politician (1735 - 1826)

What world is this article living in? I got a job making $100k as a software engineer, right out of college (top-tier I guess). And then I realized that I was worth more than that, and 8 months later I&#x27;m now switching over to a job making $150k in total compensation. And TBH, I was middle of the road compared to my classmates.

I like this article, but it does not delve very deep into why the current perceived shortage exists. On the public policy side, there is probably a belief that more STEM professionals will increase the economic competitiveness of the nation, even if there is a surplus. From technology businesses&#x27; standpoint, it is in their interests to have a surplus of STEM graduates in order to maintain or reduce wages.

Time to demonstrate once and for all the fraud that the H1B visa has always been. All it does is push older engineers out of the field so they can be replaced very cheaply.<p>That needs to stop but having the best congress money can buy pretty much assures that it won&#x27;t.

There is no shortage of bad programmers, there are plenty of medium programmers, it&#x27;s also not that hard to find decent programmers. It&#x27;s harder to find good programmers, but much harder to find great ones. The thing is that a great programmer can do 5X more than a good programmer, that can do 2X more than a decent one, that can do 2X more than a medium one. It&#x27;s not just the number of features they can write in a given time or the fact they have less bugs or test their code better, or simply can do things no one else can. It&#x27;s not even their ability to design better. It&#x27;s their ability to do all that and influence the others to follow. I think there is a shortage in that kind of developers, and there is no school that teaches these soft skills.

Fundamentally, I don&#x27;t accept that there is, in general, a shortage of &quot;good people&quot; in the USA. I responded earlier [1] to someone who thinks there is.<p>Instead of continuing to follow up with just that one person, I&#x27;d like to propose an interesting &quot;experiment&quot; for hiring managers:<p><pre><code> Do an Ask HN, linking to a recent representative job posting you haven&#x27;t been able to fill </code></pre> I&#x27;d like to see all the relevant details, such as:<p>1) the job posting, of course<p>2) company name, location, salary range<p>3) are the usual requested perks applicable, e.g. flex time, work from home, etc?<p>4) what kind of resumes are you seeing? How many? What, in general, has been wrong with those people?<p>Then I&#x27;d like to see HN posters dissect the information. Let&#x27;s find out if the requirements are realistic. Let&#x27;s find out if the company&#x27;s reputation is toxic.<p>[1] <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7452376" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=7452376</a>

Are wages purely determined by supply and demand though? There is a tale I remember about an economics professor who dumbfounds his class by pointing out that there is a huge surplus of economics students across the country who all want to work for Goldman Sachs. But the wages&#x2F;bonuses don&#x27;t fall to reflect the oversupply.<p>I think the same is true for doctors and dentists. Do very few people want to be company executives or politicians? Is there a scarcity? I don&#x27;t think so.<p>Sometimes people are well paid because they are setting their own salaries (many believe bankers have hijacked banks from the shareholders), others are setting the rules within society (politicians), or interpreting those rules (lawyers), or just getting close to those who do (lobbyists, bureaucrats, special interests).<p>In short the wages of workers are dependent partly on their position of power within society .. of which supply and demand is just one element.

Out of all those graduates, the number of which we are told is 2-3x the number of open positions, are really qualified to fill in those positions? Passionate about their field of study? Intended to get a job in that field in the first place, as opposed to getting a degree in something they can (afford)?<p>Our own experience is that even internships do not always yield good results. And the level of most applicants, many of whom are recent graduates, makes me sad. They manage to find work at some other company in the end, but only because we are in IT and IT is big at our place...

All I know is from my own experience, and that experience is that I have recruiters calling up at least once a week and a few more via email looking for software engineers. I never got that kind of attention when I was working a cash register in retail, and my friends with liberal arts degrees certainly aren&#x27;t getting it either.

I do not work in IT. Family and friends think I should be a millionair because I am &quot;so good with computers.&quot;<p>Worked in IT in the 90s for 18 months as IT Manager and well I went bald at 22. Did programing when I was 17 and well I woke up with ideas on how to do to fix my issue. To much stress and to little pay for the jobs.<p>Don&#x27;t see the change for a &quot;good&quot; IT job for most people. When students start asking about the industry from people that work it they usually get a negative response and told to do something else.

I thought the whole shortage for demand argument was to do with the lack of <i></i>talent<i></i> that was being produced, rather than simply the number of people who had a bachelors degree.

How does it look for other fields?<p>There is a misunderstanding on how jobs are made. Consider what these look like for history of English majors? STEM is in demand if you look at the areas with predicted job growth.

Well, there <i>is</i> a shortage of competent software engineers willing to sacrifice as much as corporate executives think they should, for what corporate executives think such people should be paid.<p>In the same vein, there&#x27;s a shortage of supermodels who want to fuck obese, unemployed men with halitosis and general poor hygiene.