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Ask HN: Any good investments for those saving a substantial portion of income?

45 点作者 ctb_mg大约 11 年前
Dear HN,<p>I am in my mid-20s and I&#x27;m banking over 50% of my pay each month. This adds up to about $50k in savings at the moment. I&#x27;m maxed up to match on 401k.<p>The poor interest rates in checking and savings just aren&#x27;t cutting it for me.<p>I don&#x27;t want to risk too much, but how can I better invest this money?<p>For me particularly -- my goals are a nice car (60k), retirement, and I&#x27;d like to be prepared to purchase a home (130k in my area), although I am not immediately interested in home ownership yet...

32 条评论

mcot2大约 11 年前
Open a brokerage account and invest in index funds. That requires the least amount of effort and is shown to provide solid gains over time.<p>You may also want to accelerate your home purchase plans. This is also an excellent way to use spare cash and you will get a nice tax benefit.<p>60,000 on a car is just like lighting money on fire, but you probably already knew that. Try to get as close to 0% interest as you can and don&#x27;t pay it off with the spare cash. The money is better off earning 5% in the stock market and paying a 1.9% car loan (if you can get it).
bluedevil2k大约 11 年前
All the recommendations for low cost mutual funds are good, but I recently found Motif Investing (<a href="http://motifinvesting.com" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;motifinvesting.com</a>) - it&#x27;s a really interesting way of investing in stocks, based on very specific sectors. For example, &quot;cloud computing&quot; or &quot;beer&quot;. These types of investments would be difficult to do cheaply with any current mutual find or ETF. It&#x27;s not something to put <i>all</i> your money into, but it&#x27;s an alternative and possibly interesting way to invest (I am not affiliated with them in any way).<p>I would also offer a recommendation <i>against</i> an expensive car. Take it from someone who bought a really nice sports car - the novelty wears off relatively fast, and after that, you&#x27;re just left paying hefty maintenance fees. Remember a car is to take you from point A to point B.
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PeterWhittaker大约 11 年前
A) Don&#x27;t take advice from random strangers, especially those living in echo chambers.<p>B) Read, read, read, read, read.<p>C) After B, decide on your own - you are likely as smart or smarter than any financial adviser, you need to learn what&#x27;s out there.<p>D) Some things that work for me: i) Letting my wife manage my portfolio, for the most part, she is generally more distant in her judgements; ii) stocks paying decent dividends with a history of doing so, in a DRIP; iii) reading the news, looking for things that might cause bumps in depressed stocks (made good money on Yahoo when Mayer took over); iv) doing &quot;iii&quot; with no more than 5-10% of my portfolio.
meric大约 11 年前
Put a portion in cash. At some point the market will have another downturn. The 1987 stock market crash occurred 7 years after the 1980&#x27;s recession. The mini-bear market in 1994 happened 7 years after the 1987 stock market crash. The dotcom bust occurred 7 years after the 1994 mini-bear market. The GFC occurred 7 years after the dotcom bust and it is currently the 6th year since the GFC.<p><a href="https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&amp;chdd=1&amp;chds=1&amp;chdv=1&amp;chvs=maximized&amp;chdeh=0&amp;chfdeh=0&amp;chdet=1396270301650&amp;chddm=486013&amp;chls=IntervalBasedLine&amp;q=INDEXSP:.INX&amp;&amp;ei=2mQ5U8j5I9ChkgWuUQ" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.com&#x2F;finance?chdnp=1&amp;chdd=1&amp;chds=1&amp;chdv=1&amp;...</a><p>Does it look like a good time to put all your money into a S&amp;P500 index fund?
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elharo大约 11 年前
This is easy. You want a low cost index fund. Vanguard has a number of good ones. The Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund is probably the best bet. 0.05% expense ratio for admiral shares, a bit more for investor shares. They&#x27;re a few others that only cover the S&amp;P 500, or include some bonds, or have more international exposure but at your age and savings level it&#x27;s not worth agonizing over the differences. Just go with the broadest, lowest cost stock fund you can find.
DanielStraight大约 11 年前
If you are new to investing, I highly recommend watching these videos:<p><a href="http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Video:Bogleheads%C2%AE_investment_philosophy" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bogleheads.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Video:Bogleheads%C2%AE_invest...</a><p>They aren&#x27;t selling anything, its just a series of simple videos explaining the basics of buying index funds and why you would want to do that.
emacdona大约 11 年前
Everything you said makes me think you are heading in the right direction except for the 60k car :-) Spend 30k on a lightly used car if you want &quot;nice&quot;.<p>It sounds like you have three different goals, and they break down neatly into: 1) short term: car 2) medium term: house 3) long term: retirement<p>First: If you can afford to (and it sounds like you can), max your 401k. Your 401k is a vehicle that allows you to &quot;borrow&quot; money from the government and earn interest on it (by being able to postpone taxes). Personally, I invest 100% of my 401k in an S&amp;P 500 index. I have Fidelity, so my fund is Spartan 500 Investor Class (FUSVX). Use whatever S&amp;P 500 index is available to you, though. If you still have money left, put it into a Roth IRA. Same deal: index fund. That covers your long term goal.<p>Now, for the house. I&#x27;m not sure what to say here. Most of my personal savings is <i>also</i> in the Spartan 500. If you&#x27;ve got a sliding window of 5 years to buy a house, I&#x27;d recommend the same. Convert to something more stable (bonds?) when you&#x27;ve made some money... then hold on to it while you&#x27;re waiting to buy a house. However, consider buying one right now with little money down. Prices are stabilizing and interest rates are still historically low.<p>Finally, short term. You&#x27;re young, so you probably won&#x27;t listen (and honestly, that&#x27;s okay -- I&#x27;m not picking on you): don&#x27;t buy a 60k car. Spend 30k on a used Audi or BMW if that&#x27;s your thing. Personally, I would recommend spending 23k on a used Honda. You will be amazed (maybe) at what 23k gets you for a used Honda. Same deal as the house, though. Buy it now, with little money down. Interest rates are really low.<p>Good luck. Mid 20&#x27;s and already talking about saving half of your pay check. You&#x27;ll be fine. Just max that 401k. And please don&#x27;t get a 60k car :-)
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edw519大约 11 年前
<i>I&#x27;m maxed up to match on 401k.</i><p>Max it beyond match.<p>At current returns and tax rates, investing pre-tax dollars will probably get you more bang for your buck that almost anything else.
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tomp大约 11 年前
<a href="http://wallstreetplayboys.com/sp-500-surpasses-1700-the-world-is-not-ending/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;wallstreetplayboys.com&#x2F;sp-500-surpasses-1700-the-worl...</a><p>TL;DR: invest in a low-fee, broad stock-market index (e.g. S&amp;P) every month; over a long time horizon, it should perform well, even if the market doesn&#x27;t go up (example in article: June 2007 until March 2013 - 5% annualized return).
cik大约 11 年前
There are some things you can do, while you&#x27;re searching - full disclosure of course, I do all these things.<p>First off, get a high interest savings account (or several) from your bank(s). In Canada, ING Direct does decent things (though there are better). At the very least, while you&#x27;re figuring out what to do with your money, have it make more interest for you.<p>Secondly, look at preferred shares. They&#x27;re less volatile than shares in their parent company, and they pay higher dividends. The obvious drawback being the rate of return over the long term is significantly lower than the indices themselves. Banks, at least in Canada are a great example of this, though the same is true of insurance, and power companies.<p>All investments bring risk, there&#x27;s no such thing as a guaranteed return. And of course, investments in preferred shares are a risk, like any other stock. That being the case, they&#x27;re a risk I can accept.
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fsk大约 11 年前
Rule #1 - an emergency fund of 6-12 months living expenses, in checking or money market. (Putting more than this in cash is a bad idea, because the interest you earn doesn&#x27;t keep pace with inflation.)<p>Long-term savings should be in stocks (or gold or silver).<p>Lazy allocation #1: 100% in S&amp;P 500 index fund.<p>Lazy allocation #2: 50% in S&amp;P 500 index fund, 50% in gold&#x2F;silver ETFs (like GLD, SLV, PHYS, PSLV).<p>Advanced #1: Pick individual stocks in addition to index funds.<p>Advanced #2: In addition to gold and silver ETFs, also take physical delivery. (a hedge against the possibility the the PM ETFs will default, see MF Global)<p>Note: The stock market is a risk, but over a 5+ year time period it should do better than 0% in a checking account.
refurb大约 11 年前
Do some reading: Intelligent Asset Allocator by William Bernstein[1]<p>The book is actually a quick read even if you&#x27;re not a math whiz (which I&#x27;ll assume you are). It goes through a review of how to allocate your money across a number of investments and explain <i>why</i> it makes sense not only from a theoretical perspective but also based on historical returns in the stock market.<p>You can also pick up other books by William Bernstein that cover the same thing in different degrees of detail.<p>[1] <a href="http://www.amazon.com/The-Intelligent-Asset-Allocator-Portfolio/dp/0071362363" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;The-Intelligent-Asset-Allocator-Portfo...</a>
hughes大约 11 年前
The Couch Potato Investment Strategy[0] is a great place to start. It focuses on total-market strategies that are extremely low in cost and dead simple to set up. You will most likely beat any actively managed mutual fund[1].<p>[0] <a href="http://www.moneysense.ca/invest/couch-potato-portfolio-frequently-asked-questions" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.moneysense.ca&#x2F;invest&#x2F;couch-potato-portfolio-frequ...</a><p>[1] <a href="http://www.businessinsider.com/sp-indices-versus-active-funds-spiva-2014-3" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.businessinsider.com&#x2F;sp-indices-versus-active-fund...</a>
jesusmichael大约 11 年前
If you go to a financial advisor... he&#x27;s going to talk asset allocation and diversity.<p>I was in the same situation as you. I got some good advice and purchased real estate. I bought a home for myself and and a rental, got another rental 2 years later and 4 more over the next 10 years. 20 years later and I have $2M in equity in property that has never been underwater and a nice annual income stream(60K+) that I don&#x27;t do much for.<p>Real estate has its ups and downs but its not as volatile as the stock market and is an asset that can not only generate capital gains but also income.<p>.02
Tycho大约 11 年前
Something like this maybe? Peer-to-peer lending (with risk-pooling) that cuts out the spread taken by banks<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zopa" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Zopa</a>
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vishnugupta大约 11 年前
While I will not be able to advice you about the choice of investment owing to my nationality, I highly recommend reading following books. Cover-to-cover if you can.<p>1. The Intelligent Investor by Benjamin Graham. 2. Irrational Exuberance by Robert J. Shiller. 3. Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman.<p>OK, here&#x27;s advice anyway :). Please, please do diversify your investments across different classes of products ; Equity, Debt, assets such as Gold or land and so on.<p>The proportion may vary according to your risk appetite, but do diversify.
akg_67大约 11 年前
1. Invest in Yourself.<p>2. Value experiences over things.<p>3. Avoid borrowing money as much as possible. Avoid debt.<p>4. Keep an emergency fund.<p>5. Invest in low cost Index mutual funds&#x2F;ETF.<p>6. Read following books: 6a. Your Money or Your Life: 9 Steps to Transforming Your Relationship with Money and Achieving Financial Independence. 6b. The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secrets of America&#x27;s Wealthy 6c. A Random Walk Down Wall Street: The Time-Tested Strategy for Successful Investing
ktavera大约 11 年前
AA+ rated municipal bonds can have great rates of return, low risk and usually the capital gains are tax-exempt. You can purchase bonds through online brokers (I use TD Ameritrade). There of course are other bonds; corporate, treasury and CD&#x27;s you can set up in bond ladders to generate income and reinvest after maturity into another bond but those are generally subject to standard tax rates.
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chiph大约 11 年前
Look into an Health Savings Account (HSA). Unlike a Flexible Savings Account, what you deposit can stay in there past a year and lets compound interest work for you. When you reach retirement age, you&#x27;ll have a nice fund to pay for medical expenses that medicare won&#x27;t pay for.<p>Caveat: Only suitable if you don&#x27;t have any ongoing expensive medical costs (diabetes, children, etc).
aymeric大约 11 年前
Has anyone tried <a href="http://wealthfront.com" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;wealthfront.com</a> or heard anything about it?
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rhgraysonii大约 11 年前
Medium to high risk vanguard funds have done very well for me and since they are index based it is much lower risk than just day trading. <a href="http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/05/18/how-to-make-money-in-the-stock-market/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mrmoneymustache.com&#x2F;2011&#x2F;05&#x2F;18&#x2F;how-to-make-money-...</a>
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bavcyc大约 11 年前
Read Graham&#x27;s Intelligent Investor, there are also books which provide examples or slight alternatives to Graham&#x27;s approach. Also sites similar to Mr. Money Mustache may provide guidance that is helpful to you (or not).<p>Regarding the home purchase, consider loaning yourself the money from the 401k rather than paying someone else interest.
fluffyllemon大约 11 年前
I would suggest checking out index funds from Vanguard (or Fidelity or Schwab).<p>Also, you may want to post this to: <a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;personalfinance&#x2F;</a><p>They&#x27;re a very reasonable and helpful community.
mhb大约 11 年前
Permanent Portfolio forum:<p><a href="http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/permanent-portfolio-discussion/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;gyroscopicinvesting.com&#x2F;forum&#x2F;permanent-portfolio-dis...</a>
bybjorn大约 11 年前
&gt; although I am not immediately interested in home ownership yet...<p>You should be, as this is one of the best investments you can make. At least in my part of the world :-)
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leftcoaster大约 11 年前
Take this question to the bogleheads forum.
ct大约 11 年前
Look into selling covered calls or vertical spreads for part of your portfolio as recurring monthly revenue.
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bushido大约 11 年前
First things first: we don&#x27;t have enough information to make suggestions as investing is a lot more about risk management than returns. There have been a few suggestions that could be great in other circumstances, but without knowing the OPs risk thresholds are most likely ill-advised.<p>1. the OP states that &quot;I don&#x27;t want to risk too much&quot;<p>2. risk is a very subjective&#x2F;relative concept - the only thing the OP has stated that risk can be related to is &quot;checking and savings just aren&#x27;t cutting it&quot;<p>3. based on that alone the safest assumption is that the OP&#x27;s risk capacity is relative to dismal returns from savings and checking returns - that barely keeps up with inflation<p>---------------<p>To OP:<p>1. Nothing wrong with a lower risk capacity - maybe you need to work your way to managing higher risk<p>2. For short term goals (&lt; 3yrs)- choose very safe investments as you cannot afford fluctuations<p>3. For long term goals and retirement - taxation is just as or more important than returns - interest income, capital gains and qualified dividends are taxed differently. With that in mind, looks like most if not all your current savings and investments are 100% taxable.<p>4. There are a number of ways to deal with taxation, best to find a good investment adviser who has a good understanding of risk management, taxation etc.<p>5. If you want to self manage - and don&#x27;t know your tolerance - look into doing a funnel - i.e. keep 10% in highly liquid investments (Cash, Money Market etc), 20% in government&#x2F;high quality corporate bonds(short-medium term), 70% in investments with additional risk (ex: 30% in managed high yield bonds, 40% in equity index funds -- if you&#x27;re risk tolerance changes you could increase your equity). [change ratios to match your needs, risk etc. note: try and maintain at least 3 levels]<p>6. Research re-balancing strategies.<p>7. Read some books:<p>a. The richest man in Babylon(fiction) - read first, no particular order after this<p>b. The Ivy Portfolio<p>c. The intelligent asset allocator<p>d. The permanent portfolio<p>e. The Investor&#x27;s Manifesto: Preparing for Prosperity, Armageddon, and Everything in Between<p>f. Value Averaging
wes-exp大约 11 年前
<a href="https://www.futureadvisor.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.futureadvisor.com</a>
seivan大约 11 年前
Cheap&#x2F;Free Index Funds
jafaku大约 11 年前
I&#x27;m a little surprised no one suggested Bitcoin.
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stygiansonic大约 11 年前
Firstly, I&#x27;d recommend this book: <a href="http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Bogleheads&#x27;_Guide_To_Investing" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bogleheads.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Bogleheads&#x27;_Guide_To_Investin...</a><p>It&#x27;s easy to grasp and straightforward. Some basic ideas from the book:<p>1) What is your timeline? You seem to have multiple goals&#x2F;timelines (car, retirement, home) and you need to define each clearly so that you can save for them in the proper manner. Needing money in 5-10 years for a house going to present a different goal than needing it in 30+ years for retirement. Generally, the shorter the time-frame, the less-risky the investment. If you need it in &lt;=5 years, I would stay away from equity, but that is me. Once you know your goals and timeline you can figure out what kind of expected return you want to target.<p>2) Risk tolerance: You touched on this, but again, you need to clearly define what you mean by &quot;I don&#x27;t want to risk too much&quot;. How affected would you be if your investments were down 30% in one year? Would you hold or panic and sell to avoid further losses? Answering this question is a lot easier to do when you haven&#x27;t lived through a huge market drop. (People tend to overestimate their tolerance for risk)<p>3) What is your financial situation? I assume no debt if you&#x27;re saving 50% of your pay each month, but if you do have any debt, you&#x27;re probably better paying that off before choosing to invest. Talking a financial planner (who isn&#x27;t trying to sell you product&#x2F;services from his&#x2F;her institution) is a good way to figure out a plan in this respect. I would also ensure you have a decent emergency fund - depending on your situation, 6 months is usually enough.<p>4) Other assets: If you have a decent 401k match (as you indicated) this gives you a little more flexibility since you already are saving decently for retirement.<p>5) Taxes: This matters a lot and tax rates for different investments can vary quite a bit. I&#x27;m not familiar with US tax code so again, this is something you should talk to a financial planner or accountant to understand.<p>Having said all of that, I&#x27;m personally pursuing a passive, asset-allocation plan. I&#x27;m mostly invested in Vanguard Index ETFs with a percentage allocation of bonds, US equity, Canadian Equity (I live in Canada) and International Equity that I feel is comfortable for me. I chose this mainly because of the low-cost&#x2F;low-MER (Vanguard ETFs have even lower MER in the US) and went passive because I don&#x27;t like to have constantly make adjustments to my portfolio.<p>Most of my assets are invested for long-term capital growth, but I have separate accounts for an emergency fund and saving for a real estate purchase where preservation of principal is my concern. (high interest savings account)
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