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Dear Internet: Let’s Demo The Slow Lane

410 点作者 henryaym大约 11 年前

30 条评论

loup-vaillant大约 11 年前
But we <i>already</i> have such a slow lane. And it <i>already</i> made the internet less free and less useful.<p>It&#x27;s the upload bandwidth.<p>Weak upload effectively killed peer to peer. File sharing is slower than it could be, and e-mail, chat, blogs… are all in the &quot;Cloud&quot;. Very convenient, but also dangerous (insert random EFF or FSF argument here —they all apply).<p>With a worthy upload bandwidth, all these things could use a server at home, with many advantages for choice, control, privacy… You could argue it&#x27;s impractical for a lambda user (and it is), but that&#x27;s not the problem. If someone try to sell a simple server with a fantastic UX that host e-mail, blog, vlog, social network, and distributed encrypted backup, all out of the box, it would still suck because of the damn bandwidth —and firewalls in some cases. So, this business model is dead in the water, which is why it is still so dammed difficult to install one&#x27;s own mail server.<p>You want net neutrality? Start with a neutral bandwidth. Stop treating users like consumers, and they may stop acting like ones. With any luck, it should kill YouTube, Blogger, Facebook, Twitter, Gmail, Skype… except the users will still do what these &quot;services&quot; offer.
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alandarev大约 11 年前
Issue is severe, but the proposed solution does not sound efficient in any way. In comparison to blackout day:<p>1. Turning site off is a lot easier than installing apache module and configuring it. What if site admin does not even have root access?<p>2. Customer getting the slow site load might not get the message, but instead turn around for a competitor. [1]<p>[1] 40% of people abandon a website that takes more than 3 seconds to load. - <a href="http://blog.kissmetrics.com/loading-time/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.kissmetrics.com&#x2F;loading-time&#x2F;</a>
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addisonj大约 11 年前
How about something simpler - Make images load slowly using JS.<p>A ton of popular consumer sites - facebook, instagram, reddit&#x2F;imgur are hugely image based. A few lines of JS to make them slowly load (perhaps PNG artifacts for bonus points) and you could very effectively get the point across all while quickly serving a nice large banner.<p>Offtopic: As a google fiber customer myself, his mention of not remembering the upload speed, made me think of how we need bandwidth to get to the point where it doesn&#x27;t matter. CPU speed used to be something you quoted. For the last few computers, I don&#x27;t care anymore, because its simply &quot;enough&quot;. I fear the current telco&#x2F;ISPs wouldn&#x27;t agree with that idea...
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shubb大约 11 年前
Can anyone think of any advantages to a non-neutral internet?<p>I can think of a few - Netflix and Skype would work better.<p>Most likely, we&#x27;d be able to pay for priority traffic, just like we pay for a large AWS instance. Non-priority traffic might be cheaper than current bandwidth.<p>It would be crazy to suggest all sites be forced to use the same size AWS instance...<p>Some types of traffic are bandwidth sensitive, like video. Others are cost sensitive, like Linux DVD images.<p>If you think that an end to neutrality will &#x27;ruin the internet&#x27;, don&#x27;t you expect consumers to choose ISPs and services that don&#x27;t do it?
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keerthiko大约 11 年前
This would be great and informative and effective, except that the most visible sites* have no incentive to play along with this little song and dance, as they are the ones proliferating anti-net-neutrality for their own private gain.<p>So it will basically just look to people like I&#x27;m running a shitty technical job serving my site, most people will think I&#x27;m stupid, they won&#x27;t learn a damn thing about net neutrality or why it&#x27;s important, and stop visiting my site in the process. =&#x2F;<p>* that many people use exclusively with their internet-time, like Youtube, facebook, Netflix, etc
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rubbingalcohol大约 11 年前
I am working with Fight for the Future on a JavaScript code snippet (called &#x27;Slow Lane&#x27;) to simulate a slow loading process + rip the FCC a new one. This project needs to launch next week to make the maximum impact and we need help to make it superb! If anyone with web skills is interested in helping out, please email team@fightforthefuture.org or me directly at jeff@rubbingalcoholic.com ...
exelius大约 11 年前
I don&#x27;t know that this is the solution (or even that there&#x27;s a problem). I know my opinion isn&#x27;t very popular on HN on this issue; but I continue to share it because I feel it&#x27;s important that people understand the view from the other side of the fence. I expect to get downvoted because people disagree with me, but then magical internet points never really mattered much to me.<p>I think all this talk of the &quot;slow lane&quot; is a bit tinfoil-hat. Companies like Comcast have no interest in slowing down web site traffic; in fact they do a lot of QoS to make web browsing faster and more responsive. This type of traffic (DNS, HTTP requests, online gaming, etc.) tends to get put in a high-priority QoS class: the data transmitted is often small and it greatly improves the user&#x27;s experience. ISPs have a huge incentive to make this type of traffic as responsive as possible; and given the low bandwidth requirements, this should definitely be possible. It makes their service &quot;feel&quot; faster to the customer and it&#x27;s the right thing to do for the customer.<p>Video streaming services are another story. They don&#x27;t need to be responsive because they pre-cache a lot of data; in fact the right thing to do from a technical perspective is QoS them into the basement. Video can handle this; it&#x27;s high bandwidth and low latency. The thing is, streaming video accounts for about 80% of peak Internet traffic. A small percentage of users (~30%) are starting to overload the ISP&#x27;s last-mile networks with video traffic.<p>The types of high-bandwidth scenarios that the ISPs will be pushing the &quot;fast lane&quot; on are going to be almost exclusively video streaming services. Video streamers have had to pay CDNs for years anyway if they wanted their videos to stream quickly. The idea is that because these services have such a disproportionate effect on bandwidth usage, they need to contribute economically to avoid a tragedy of the commons [1] situation. Your average website or app that&#x27;s not pulling 1.5+ mbit&#x2F;s over an extended period of time is likely going to be fast regardless because it&#x27;s in the ISPs best interests to make it that way.<p>[1] <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Tragedy_of_the_commons</a>
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iLoch大约 11 年前
I think simulated slowness is probably better than actual slowness. Something like a javascript file you could include that would hide all the content on the page and show each element at the same speed you&#x27;d see with a throttled network. That way you could still display a message about why it&#x27;s happening, etc. and it&#x27;s much easier for the average developer to implement.
Killah911大约 11 年前
Disclosure: I&#x27;m a Feld fanboy. I think it&#x27;s a brilliant idea. However, to actually coordinate it would take some doing. Blackouts are relatively easy technically. Slowdowns, not so much, given that most companies that give a crap work diligently to improve the user experience and speed things up.<p>The financial impact could potentially be huge (as I&#x27;m sure blackout was as well). But what&#x27;s even tougher about this idea is getting companies like Google and Netflix in on the &quot;simulation&quot;. They&#x27;re most likely not going to be on the slow lane. Now let&#x27;s say some we get a whole bunch of startups who would get penalized by the slow lane to do this for a day. Would it make as much of a difference to the masses? The initial effects will be subtle, but the long term impact on economic activity and startups in general could be devastating.<p>That being said... if this movement is to take hold we&#x27;ll need some web server plugins and some JS magic to help it happen at a massive scale. Maybe some of my fellow geeks at the bigCo&#x27;s can convince them to join in for a day too, for the sake of all of us.
bluedino大约 11 年前
Apple has included the Network Link Conditioner in the past few versions of Xcode. Works great for simulating slow network for your apps.<p><a href="https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/NetworkingInternetWeb/Conceptual/NetworkingOverview/WhyNetworkingIsHard/WhyNetworkingIsHard.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developer.apple.com&#x2F;library&#x2F;ios&#x2F;documentation&#x2F;Networ...</a>
esquivalience大约 11 年前
Seems to me that this protest would have a far higher impact than the blackout - or at least a far higher annoyance factor.<p>The services it would impact most are high-bandwidth such as content streaming, but of course those may be reluctant to participate as it could realistically ruin their goodwill and quickly decimate their user base.
yodaiken大约 11 年前
Here&#x27;s v1 of slowlane.js, might be able to help: <a href="https://github.com/yodaiken/slowlane/" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;yodaiken&#x2F;slowlane&#x2F;</a>
Zelphyr大约 11 年前
I really like this idea except for one thing; it would show users a comparison of slow (what they get now) and <i>really</i> slow. But not what they would get if they lived in, say, Seoul.<p>The problem is, most people don&#x27;t realize that, all things considered, their internet really isn&#x27;t as fast as it could be. They think it is because they have no basis for comparison. And the ISP&#x27;s bank on this... literally.
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sharemywin大约 11 年前
I&#x27;m thinking this is a false advertising issue. they say they provide X speed and throttle it down. we need to get the attorney generals in on this issue. they should only be able to advertise the slowest speed they throttle down to.
keithpeter大约 11 年前
<i>&quot;Algorithmically, all sites could slow themselves down dramatically, demonstrating what performance might look like over a 1&#x2F;1 pipe. Or even a 0.5&#x2F;0.5 pipe.&quot;</i><p>If the former, it would make precisely <i>no difference</i> to me. Openreach (UK) provide adsl over copper via an older phone exchange in my immediate area. This is one mile from the centre of a major city. The local authority actually took Openreach to court and lost.<p>To put this into perspective the government is about to spend around UKP60 Billions over 20 years to provide a high speed train link to London so the journey time drops from 1h30 to 45 min...
Zhenya大约 11 年前
I can&#x27;t wait till I have to buy packages based on the type of content I want to consume : $10&#x2F;month email $20&#x2F;web $30&#x2F;music $60&#x2F; video. Bonus Package - Add $5 for gaming $20 for large file download.<p>&#x2F;S<p>This is where we are heading.
TeMPOraL大约 11 年前
Late to the discussion about the general issue; could someone please help me understand what&#x27;s the difference between the &quot;Fast Lane&quot;&#x2F;&quot;Slow Lane&quot; and good old QoS?
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carlosvergara大约 11 年前
One quick, effective and probably not entirely illegal manner to raise the issue would simply be putting a sign on top of any comcast user&#x27;s pageview saying something like, &quot;Since your internet provider has forced us to pay X amount of money per GB to provide our service to your specific account, and we currently haven&#x27;t figured out a cost scheme to account for that, your movie viewing experience is being adjusted to fit our current costs. (hyperlink)Tell Comcast how you feel about this.&quot;
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segmondy大约 11 年前
A class action lawsuit is overdue against these internet providers over selling. I feel like I&#x27;m on a 128k ISDN most days, it&#x27;s literally that slow. When you call in, they say, well, &quot;Up to 3Mps&quot; doesn&#x27;t mean you will get it. ISPs are charging us by possible speeds, they need to deliver or discount when they can&#x27;t. if you promise me about 10-15 widgets an hour for $50 and all you can consistently deliver for a month is 2-3 widgets. You should not demand $50.
DanBC大约 11 年前
Would users actually notice?<p>And, really, users who have bought based on price per Mb download speed without any other metric are partly to blame for this. If users had been honestly buying based on bandwidth used we would not have ISPs offering &quot;unlimited (until you hit the limits)&quot; internet connectivity. (This is not to excuse the ISPs for their sleazy misleading advertising).<p>Give people a price per GB and then tell them how many GB they download each month. Price that GB sensibly and route traffic fairly.
digikata大约 11 年前
I think a better demo would be a game where you&#x27;re playing the ISP trying to maximize the profits from captive neighborhoods of customers. There could be activities such as offering a toll gate speed-up packages for popular websites, and placing your former lobbyist as a regulatory officer, and buying up more ISPs to get more captive neighborhoods.
coreymgilmore大约 11 年前
One main problem with any attempt by a site to slow down its service is that all similar&#x2F;competitor sites must slow down equally. Otherwise we get the game of one site provider not slowing down (or slowing down as much) because of the incentive: if they are faster, they generate more visits than competitors.
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ctdonath大约 11 年前
<i>What if we did the same by Demoing the Slow Lane for a day.</i><p>As someone who remembers using 110bps connections, this is amusing.
solnyshok大约 11 年前
two can play this game. Netflix could serve B&amp;W versions of movies to the clients of non-neutral providers. The official line could be something along &quot;this movie have been optimized for the low bandwith connections by removing colors and stereo sound; contact your congressmen&quot;
cddotdotslash大约 11 年前
Best idea I&#x27;ve heard so far is to intentionally slow traffic only for known government IP blocks. If we can convince Google, Wikipedia, and other big sites to do this, Washington would definitely notice. I&#x27;m thinking of writing a script that site owners could use to do just this.
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alexkiritz大约 11 年前
How about we block comcast and the fcc from accessing google. See how they like it.
ihsw大约 11 年前
Why stop at the slow lane? There is nothing preventing ISP gatekeepers from wholeheartedly denying access.<p>Slowness is just the beginning -- the end-goal is making the internet into multiple competing walled gardens where users are treated as silos that require permission to access. The global reach of the internet is at risk here.<p>Imagine if Netflix wasn&#x27;t accessible to Comcast users from the beginning because they wouldn&#x27;t pay the toll. Would it have thrived and grown as quickly as it did, or would it have died in it&#x27;s infancy?<p>What about Skype? Skype stepped on the toes of incumbent ISPs&#x27; long-distance revenue streams, I wouldn&#x27;t put it past AT&amp;T to purposefully degrade the quality of Skype calls <i>or even outright deny them from happening</i>. Prior to being bought out by Microsoft, would they have had the revenue to pay for access to users? Would Microsoft have even bought Skype at all?
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bitJericho大约 11 年前
Much more effective would be for operators to ban ISPs. Imagine the internet telling specific users that they have to get off comcast or whatever in order to use their service for a particular day out of every month. Do it maddox style with a nice middle finger. Make users want to switch instead of just pretend like there&#x27;s no alternatives.
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neals大约 11 年前
You slow down HN and Reddit and I&#x27;ll be up in arms with a burning pitchfork and a sharp spiked cross.
hmottestad大约 11 年前
This blog has now made it to my global blocking file for serving the entire post as an image file instead of as text.
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