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Why I Am Not An Integrated Information Theorist (or, The Unconscious Expander)

80 点作者 altro大约 11 年前

5 条评论

apl大约 11 年前
I appreciate the notion of a &quot;pretty-hard&quot; problem of consciousness; it nicely captures what people in the field, philosophers and scientists alike, are <i>actually</i> looking for.<p>His counterarguments appear sound, especially the technical concerns. (That&#x27;s not particularly exciting, though: formalisations of philosophical arguments often crumble under the mathematician&#x27;s lens. Even the best ones!) They&#x27;re not exactly new, I&#x27;d say, but their rigour is refreshing. My key problem with the overall approach remains the shitty test set we have for any theory of consciousness. It ultimately consists of two elements. If we&#x27;re being generous, there&#x27;s three. Namely, almost everyone except for the philosophical extremist agrees that we are conscious and that a stone isn&#x27;t. IIT works quite well for these cases. Some people would include, say, a cat as a conscious being while maintaining that its &quot;level&quot; of consciousness is reduced. This boils down to<p><pre><code> C_stone &lt; [C_cat &lt;] C_human </code></pre> which isn&#x27;t much. There&#x27;s no real hope for extending it. Any other cases like the ones Aaronson discusses are ones for which we don&#x27;t even have strong intuitions. Sure, we&#x27;d like to think that none of the entities he describes are in fact conscious. But if that&#x27;s the bullet I have to bite in order to get a decent theory of consciousness, then I might be OK with that.
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byerley大约 11 年前
I&#x27;d argue that the author&#x27;s views are too concerned with intuition. If we reduce consciousness to a scale rather than a binary property; of course a thermostat is somewhere on the scale, it simply has such a small value that it&#x27;s not worth considering - leading to our philosophical intuition. There&#x27;s nothing magical about our level of consciousness; as unintuitive as that may be. Aaronson argues that the model must yield to our intuition, but if the model is consistent and explains our observations, our intuition should yield to it. - the obvious analog here being quantum mechanics<p>In regards to saying &quot;both that the Hard Problem is meaningless, and that progress in neuroscience will soon solve the problem if it hasn’t already,&quot; neuroscientists and mathematicians too often overlook the Turing test here. It&#x27;s consistent (if not accurate) to say that the &quot;Hard Problem&quot; is ill-defined, but maintain that we&#x27;ve clearly solved it if we can comprehensively beat the Turing test. That&#x27;s what the Turing test was designed for, knowing that we&#x27;ve created a conscious machine because it&#x27;s indistinguishable from a human; even if we can&#x27;t decide on what consciousness is.
alokm大约 11 年前
I have had the fortune of working on this IIT right after my IIT :). I worked on implementing the research software used by Giulio Tononi and his research team. I added a visualizer in OpenGL, and optimized the calculations for calculating integrated information.
tunesmith大约 11 年前
Pretty dense article for what seems to be a really daffy definition of consciousness, so maybe someone can summarize? It seems to just be the difference between systems thinking and reductionism, but why would any irreducible concept be evidence of consciousness? Why on earth would that idea make any more sense than, say, a math problem that is too hard for a 4th-grader being evidence of consciousness? Or a locked machine, or a patented process, etc? There&#x27;s nothing intrinsically special about an irreducible process other than it being irreducible - it&#x27;s not like it&#x27;s mystical or anything.
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andyjohnson0大约 11 年前
I wanted to like this, but IIT just seems like a lot of hand-waving.<p><i>&quot;to hypothesize that a physical system is “conscious” if and only if it has a large value of Φ&quot;</i><p>By this measure, would a long mathematical proof or an orchestral symphony be conscious? If so, how does this actually help us understand how subjectivity relates (or doesn&#x27;t) to all this?<p>[1] <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_long_proofs" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_long_proofs</a>