TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Google discloses its diversity record, and it’s not good

55 点作者 _pius大约 11 年前

24 条评论

forrestthewoods大约 11 年前
Not good based on what criteria exactly? They seem to say Google is doing poorly in comparison to other tech companies but they fail to provide a concrete comparison to support that point. They could be saying Google&#x27;s diversity is &quot;not good&quot; as a sign of the greater cultural issues, but they single Google out too much for that.<p>Only 17% of Google&#x27;s tech jobs go to women. Given that roughly 20% of comp sci degrees go to women that seems roughly reasonable [1]. For non-tech jobs the split is 52&#x2F;48 which again seems roughly reasonable.<p>The numbers for non-Asian minorities are pretty grim. They appear to be much further off from national averages for relevant degrees. Would need much more detailed information before making an assessment.<p>[1] <a href="http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d12/tables/dt12_349.asp" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;nces.ed.gov&#x2F;programs&#x2F;digest&#x2F;d12&#x2F;tables&#x2F;dt12_349.asp</a> [2] <a href="http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind12/c2/c2s3.htm" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nsf.gov&#x2F;statistics&#x2F;seind12&#x2F;c2&#x2F;c2s3.htm</a>
评论 #7813614 未加载
评论 #7813692 未加载
评论 #7813684 未加载
IvyMike大约 11 年前
I&#x27;ve made this point before, but... having done a ton of interviews for senior and principal software engineers, the candidate mix is already incredibly non-diverse by the time it gets to me.<p>I mean, maybe my management and hr is filled with racists and sexists, but my gut reaction is they seem like pretty progressive folks. I think the pipeline is messed up much, much earlier.
评论 #7813605 未加载
评论 #7813534 未加载
评论 #7813674 未加载
WestCoastJustin大约 11 年前
This closely jives with the &quot;<i>Degrees conferred by sex and race</i>&quot; stats from U.S. Department of Education Institute of Education Sciences National Center for Education Statistics.<p>ps. Interesting side note, is that while looking this up, I wanted to see if H1B visas skewed the stats. I found a page that lists &quot;10 of the largest and hottest US Companies that hire skilled immigrants for H1B visas&quot; [2]. What&#x27;s interesting is that these numbers are <i>far</i> lower than I thought they would be, as in, I thought H1B visas were the life blood of these companies. But these numbers are probably not even a fraction of their total employee base.<p><pre><code> Amazon 333 visas Apple 520 visas Facebook 173 visas Google 685 visas Microsoft 2,125 visas ... </code></pre> [1] <a href="http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=72" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;nces.ed.gov&#x2F;fastfacts&#x2F;display.asp?id=72</a><p>[2] <a href="http://www.h1base.com/visa/work/H1Bvisa10topH1BsponsorsReview/ref/1691/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.h1base.com&#x2F;visa&#x2F;work&#x2F;H1Bvisa10topH1BsponsorsRevie...</a>
评论 #7813705 未加载
评论 #7813912 未加载
CHY872大约 11 年前
I can&#x27;t help but feel that this really isn&#x27;t Google&#x27;s fault. A simple heuristic to make recruiting grads simpler is to restrict yourself to the top universities (most companies do this) - but I bet that the CS programs for most of those universities have similar statistics.<p>As one datapoint, the program I&#x27;m on has a 8:1 male-female ratio, and of the 80 or so students on it, I believe that there is one black student.<p>It&#x27;s a problem with all of CS - and Google have decent initiatives to help turn it around, but it&#x27;s going to take time - more CS education in schools, more access programs to help those from deprived backgrounds get programming - and that&#x27;ll sadly happen slowly.<p>Perhaps it&#x27;s different in America (where one need not choose CS before university starts).
评论 #7813628 未加载
buckbova大约 11 年前
&gt; “We’re not where we want to be when it comes to diversity,” Laszlo Bock, Google’s senior vice president of “people operations,” told the NewsHour in a statement prior to a broadcast interview Wednesday. “It is hard to address these kinds of challenges if you’re not prepared to discuss them openly, and with the facts. All our diversity efforts, including going public with these numbers, are designed to ensure Google recruits and retain many more women and minorities in the future.”<p>I don&#x27;t agree with diversity for the sake of diversity. Hire the most qualified candidate regardless of race&#x2F;gender.<p>And also, Asians are a minority group, at least in California as of today.
评论 #7813642 未加载
评论 #7813699 未加载
评论 #7813564 未加载
评论 #7813621 未加载
incision大约 11 年前
<i>&gt;&#x27;Google and other major tech companies have been the target of increasing pressure to hire more women and minorities...&#x27;</i><p>Time for me to add a profile pic on LinkedIn?<p>Seriously now...<p>I&#x27;m not sure what, if anything, to make of this. I expected the numbers to be low, but not that low. I&#x27;ve personally felt discriminated against throughout life and at times witnessed direct evidence of it.<p>Thing is, the objective requirements for candidates to build and run bleeding edge infrastructure in a highly competitive market is quite a bit different from say renting an apartment.<p>This leads me to imagine that the applicable pool will be much smaller and Google will not be inclined to pass on qualified candidates.<p>That said, ‘Google’ doesn&#x27;t hire people, people do and unless the process has changed - any single person can exclude any candidate. It would be interesting to know what proportion of minority candidates who come on-site are hired versus the field - not conclusive, but certainly interesting.<p>If I had guess I’d think that discrimination is producing this, but it’s not happening at Google - it’s happening all over. A million small slights and denied opportunities (in this generation or those prior) that see people who might otherwise have the capacity never gain the necessary experience, exposure, relationships or plain confidence that could surface them to the top.<p>Personally, I had never entertained the possibility that I could work for them until they called me - it was eye-opening that someone could see a possibility in me that I’d refused to see myself. Interestingly, both times I&#x27;ve been contacted by SV companies (Google included) the recruiters were minorities themselves.<p>We’ll see.
mullingitover大约 11 年前
Is PBS implying that Google is discriminating during the hiring process, or that the talent pool lacks diversity? If it&#x27;s the latter, hard to blame Google for that one.
评论 #7813571 未加载
buro9大约 11 年前
The greatest disadvantage you can have in the Western world is to be born a black woman.<p>Unfortunately I don&#x27;t feel this is due to Google&#x27;s hiring policies, the disadvantages and lack of privilege kick in a lot earlier and apply to every action in a lifetime... by the time that has compounded the person isn&#x27;t even a candidate for Google.
评论 #7813647 未加载
评论 #7813655 未加载
评论 #7813703 未加载
jqm大约 11 年前
I&#x27;m not surprised and doubt anyone else is either.<p>I&#x27;m a white male and Google wouldn&#x27;t hire me. Because I don&#x27;t have all the qualities I would need to work there. Probably neither do most of the people they aren&#x27;t hiring. Probably not a conspiracy. Why do we look at people as groups instead of individuals so much? What if someone is half Asian and 1&#x2F;4 African American? Or what if they are &quot;Hispanic&quot; but half their ancestors came from Lebanon three generations ago? Where do these go on the numbers chart? There are only going to be more of these types of individuals around as time goes on. Maybe the group view is sometimes misleading and becoming more bogus every generation?
shephallmassive大约 11 年前
Getting diversity in a company means changes to standard practices. ie its ok to work from home,flexible part-time working, a good environment for disabled and on-site creches for parents, prayer rooms for religious peeps and being careful not to create a presenteeism long-hours culture. This may be expensive to invest in for companies upfront but the benefits in having a diverse workforce are well documented. Perhaps if even Einstein himself had been a single-parent father in our time, he would have found it difficult to work in tech too..
joeblau大约 11 年前
This isn&#x27;t really that surprising if you look at the talent pool in Silicon Valley, which probably breaks down along the same diversity lines. I live in SF and I would like to see that chart against the actual qualified candidates who live here. Most of the people that I meet at Meet Ups, social events, Commonwealth Club, VC meetings, and see in my building are White and Asian so I don&#x27;t see how this is &quot;not good.&quot; I&#x27;m Black, and I&#x27;m usually the only technical Black guy at whatever company I work for.
sheepmullet大约 11 年前
I think &quot;we&quot; look at the diversity issue from the wrong angle. The question we should be asking is: Why should a smart, hard working, and not particularly nerdy woman want to join the software industry?<p>If you are smart enough, and hard working enough, to get a good job at Google then you can do well in accounting, medicine, law, banking, sales, engineering etc.<p>Outside of a few tech hubs like Silicon Valley software development doesn&#x27;t pay as well, or have as good of a career progression, as other top professions. It is also significantly riskier.<p>On risk: In a startup your job is much less secure and to adjust for this your compensation should be roughly 1.5-2.5x higher than at a more stable firm. Startups <i>don&#x27;t</i> usually pay this much higher which is why, outside of a few select areas, startups struggle to find talent. In SV though most of the risk disappears because the market is so hot. In SV it is easier to change companies than it is to change teams.<p>So already you are saying: If you want to do well you have to give up your existing friendships&#x2F;family&#x2F;lifestyle etc and move. Other sectors&#x2F;fields that require the same sacrifices typically compensate you much better e.g. Go to NYC for finance and realistically if you are good your total comp can be &gt; $1million&#x2F;year.<p>And that is not even getting into lack of time for l&amp;d, the small half-life of knowledge, working in a heavily male environment, etc.
CurtHagenlocher大约 11 年前
It would be nice to be able to compare these numbers with other large computer technology companies.
thebokehwokeh2大约 11 年前
The &#x27;slice of pie&#x27; type of analysis only tells half of the issue. Better would be the ratio of applicants to hires. If in a pool of 100, 70 are white, 30 are asian, and 1 is hispanic, then that could point to a lack of diversity in the talent pool.<p>On the other hand, if 100 hispanics applied, and only 1 was hired. Or if only 2 hispanics actually get to the application process, then that is an actual story.
wickedOne大约 11 年前
do these figures mean anything without knowing the racial and ethnic data of the entire industry?
评论 #7813477 未加载
评论 #7813721 未加载
qzervaas大约 11 年前
So let&#x27;s say a hiring decision comes down to 2 people, both identical in skill&#x2F;experience&#x2F;attitude. One is a white male, another is a black female.<p>These studies imply the black female should be hired because of her gender and&#x2F;or race to boost diversity numbers. Is this not sexist &#x2F; racist?
评论 #7813757 未加载
评论 #7813855 未加载
general_failure大约 11 年前
Google should be careful here. I have been part of teams where managers go ahead and make &#x27;diverse&#x27; hires just to fudge the numbers despite getting an explicit &#x27;no&#x27; from the engineers who interviewed them. These hires were always terrible and bring productivity down big time.<p>I see no difference between this and caste based reservation in countries like India (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservation_in_India" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Reservation_in_India</a>). In states like Tamil nadu (India) only 30% of seats are available to brahmins. Note that 30% is open quota - everyone competes for those 30%. Even the people for whom things seats were reserved for already.<p>Diversifying the work force should never be a goal by itself.
ethanpil大约 11 年前
Google is in the profit business they don&#x27;t discriminate by race. Just like any other capitalist entity, they discriminate against individuals based on perceived profitability.<p>They hire the people they think will make them the most money because these are the best people they can find for the job.<p>Seriously, if you don&#x27;t like this, go to Cuba or North Korea or back in time to the USSR. There is no other agenda.<p>My forebears (and most likely yours) came to this country because of this; (honest) capitalism means the most talented and qualified people&#x2F;entities&#x2F;products succeed.<p>Why do people care about this?
评论 #7813761 未加载
coherentpony大约 11 年前
&quot;Totals and % do not include unknown, null, or &#x27;decline-to-state&#x27; fields.&quot;<p>Without that information, it&#x27;s pretty hard to tell how much of an effect it has on those numbers.
评论 #7813465 未加载
评论 #7813742 未加载
评论 #7813462 未加载
jebblue大约 11 年前
It seems to correlate to the Bay Area Demographics:<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Bay_Area#Demographics" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;San_Francisco_Bay_Area#Demograp...</a><p>I don&#x27;t see anything out of the ordinary or wrong, as far as men versus women, I think it&#x27;s not a surprise to me that more men are in technology.
yueq大约 11 年前
If you look at NBA&#x2F;NFL diversity record, it is much worse.
voidr大约 11 年前
Time to hire people just because they were born women&#x2F;part of an ethnic group&#x2F;race! Who cares about merits....
darkrabbi大约 11 年前
This topic is something that I feel strongly about as a minority that has worked in tech&#x2F;new media.<p>I don’t think any reasonable people at this point would disagree that affirmative action&#x2F;hiring for the sake of racial quotas is the equivalent of passing up qualified candidates based on race. That is to say it’s a destructive practice that creates resentment and unnecessary racial tension.<p>The main problem with this line of thinking is that it ignores the tremendous societal forces in place that lead to a predominantly white executive work force instead focusing only on the outcome and attempting to change that with affirmative action and minority hires for the sake of diversity. This is so narrow minded and results-oriented that I have a hard time believing intelligent people signed off on it and it was actually legally mandated at one point.<p>What we should be doing is examining the processes and infrastructure that leads to a predominantly white male executive workforce to determine where discrimination occurs and attempt to curb it there. This discussion is not the one we’re having, instead focusing on sensationalist headlines and click-bait articles that do more harm than good to racial relations in America. Top that off with clowns like Jesse Jackson who just the other day showed up at the facebook shareholders meeting &quot;advocating for hiring more minorities at technology companies, especially into board seats.&quot; and you get the sad state of affairs we find ourselves in today.<p>Louis CK tells a joke in which the general idea is “You know you really trust someone when you reveal to them your inner most racist thoughts”. It’s funny because it’s true, but the prevailing air of secrecy and shame about ones prejudices is a big part of what&#x27;s preventing us from having honest dialogue about race in this country.<p>Just the other week Mark Cuban was lambasted by a desperate journalist&#x2F;blogger who took quotes out of context and misrepresented his remarks to paint him as racist. With an atmosphere like that it’s no wonder white people are afraid to discuss race relations. It&#x27;s the same reason this thread is full of people getting defensive about &quot;Google isn&#x27;t racist!&quot;<p>Now I&#x27;m going to lose a lot of you on this next part, but based ONLY on my subjective experiences in the corporate workforce whenever we had new hires, the white males always seemed to be treated as &quot;potential leadership material&quot; not based on merit but simply because they looked the part. Being tall and easy on the eyes helps too. Meanwhile minority hires, even in the same position as their white male counterparts were seen as foot soldiers and worker bees. This perception was prevalent in the last 2 companies I&#x27;ve worked for. Take from that what you will, that&#x27;s been my experience.
评论 #7813803 未加载
评论 #7813924 未加载
rusabd大约 11 年前
if you notice, there is a higher level of asians in tech (compare to non-tech) and ratio of women to men in non-tech is almost 50-50. If might suggest that men (mostly white and asians) are more likely brain damaged in certain ways which let them succeed (or survive) in such unnatural environment.
评论 #7813591 未加载
评论 #7813578 未加载
评论 #7814214 未加载