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Marc Andreessen says Snowden is a traitor

42 点作者 sabelo将近 11 年前

14 条评论

tptacek将近 11 年前
I would not under almost any circumstances, including the revelation that he was working directly with the FSB† when he decided what to leak, use the word &quot;traitor&quot; to describe a national security leaker. In addition to being inaccurate, the word sucks all the oxygen out of the room and makes it impossible to have a dispassionate discussion about what happened.<p>But if you can get past Andreesen&#x27;s unfortunate choice of framing, this story is useful as an indicator of how captive we are to our filter bubbles. The valence of Andreesen&#x27;s feelings about Snowden isn&#x27;t at all weird. Lots of people share the perspective that Snowden is doing more harm than good, but people on HN seem to have a hard time believing that.<p>† <i>Which I doubt; it&#x27;s too interesting, and the most boring narrative always wins.</i>
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2close4comfort将近 11 年前
Well I guess he falls in the &quot;I am complicit giving over your stuff to the government&quot; side of things. Good to know if you are a conscious consumer.
gatehouse将近 11 年前
I&#x27;m inherently suspicious of a one-word quote, but it seems to be essentially what he said.<p>I don&#x27;t think &quot;everybody knew&quot; that the NSA was moonlighting in the drug war: <a href="https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/08/dea-and-nsa-team-intelligence-laundering" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.eff.org&#x2F;deeplinks&#x2F;2013&#x2F;08&#x2F;dea-and-nsa-team-intel...</a>
wutbrodo将近 11 年前
Leaving aside the meat of the article, I found this quote interesting:<p>&quot;&quot;&quot; Andreessen said he was not surprised that the National Security Agency was spying. &quot;The biggest surprise for me was that people were so shocked, because I thought we&#x27;ve been funding this agency for 50 years that has tens of thousands of employees and spends tens of billions of dollars a year.&quot; &quot;&quot;&quot;<p>Does anyone else find this to be the case too? I feel like the actions of taxpayer-funded agencies like the CIA&#x2F;NSA have been despicable for decades, and I&#x27;m puzzled as to why this is the first time that people seem to actually care (which, don&#x27;t get me wrong, is great). For those of us who gave a shit before Snowden, I feel like there was a sense of being resigned to the fact that most people (even in tech circles like HN) simply don&#x27;t care; similar to something like climate change. I know that these revelations are relatively novel in that they involve surveillance of Americans&#x27; data as well as foreign nationals, but that was the case for warrantless wiretapping in the 2000s. That made news, but there DEFINITELY wasn&#x27;t as much fuss made about it (to my bafflement at the time).
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Fuzzwah将近 11 年前
Currently active discussion going on in prior submission of same link:<p><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7852246" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=7852246</a>
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midhem将近 11 年前
History is written by the victors. Traitors? heroes? It is just a point of view, depending on who win at then end. We now know on which side Marc Andressen is seated.
jsmcgd将近 11 年前
I don&#x27;t understand Marc&#x27;s position. He says that foreign governments knew about the spying but that Edward Snowden is a traitor for telling them what they already knew? So what damage is ES supposed to have done exactly? It is public record that terrorist organizations knew about intelligence services surveillance against them, which I suspect everyone on the planet would guess would be happening. So how has ES acted against the interests of the American people?<p>It was a shock to many people including myself that the intelligence community would explicity violating the US constitution by conducting wholesale surveillance against all American citizens. Marc would probably say either that it wasn&#x27;t a violation or that it isn&#x27;t surprising. I don&#x27;t think this is a credible position given that the actions of the NSA and others were shocking to the people that worked at these organizations. Unless Marc has a past I&#x27;m unaware of, to say that is ridiculous.<p>I&#x27;m deeply disappointed :(
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nabla9将近 11 年前
I&#x27;m an European and treason and espionage are political crimes. If Snowden is a traitor, then he spied on my behalf against U.S. government. For me and many other citizens of so called free word he is a hero. He should get a medal.<p>In U.S. media the discussion centers around Americans being spied and if that is illegal. As a non-American, I see U.S. UK and other mass surveillance countries as constantly attacking me personally. As more and more people feel the same way, it will eventually have real consequences to U.S. interests. It might take generation or two, but it will happen.<p>First world countries are very interdependent and this kind of attacking harms us all. Even in the cynical machtpolitik world view this can be seen as shortsighted strategy.
napoleoncomplex将近 11 年前
Yes, let&#x27;s worry about Silicon Valley&#x27;s bottom line in all of this. Brave warriors, always on the ropes.<p>It&#x27;s always surprising when one discovers the Ellisons and the Andreessens of the world. Luckily their type is a rare exception in the Valley though.
higherpurpose将近 11 年前
I started disliking this guy since he coerced Oculus Rift into a sale to Facebook (and I&#x27;m assuming soon Imgur, too). He&#x27;s probably too worried about his investments and what the Snowden revelations impact will be on them, and that&#x27;s why he&#x27;s calling him a traitor.
kumar303将近 11 年前
&quot;The fallout from the Snowden leaks have hurt U.S. technology firms&#x27; ability to sell their products overseas&quot;<p>What an idiotic, capitalistic claim. So Andreeson calls him a traitor because &quot;business is now harder.&quot; Huh? Nevermind invasion of privacy and injustice.
contingencies将近 11 年前
Ooh! <i>Big capitalist profiting vastly from status quo throws in lot with conservatism!</i> News at 9.<p>Trusting any of these filthy rich buffoons, including governments, is imbecilic. The only way to change the system is through decentralized, bottom-up, participation-based (ie. opt-in) change.
seanhandley将近 11 年前
A &quot;textbook traitor&quot;.... and which textbook would that be?
aerolite将近 11 年前
moron